Oneness. All is one.

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Before you delve into a soup of consciousness and become one with everything should you not be asking yourself if it is even worth it? Why or why not?

reply to post by PhantomLimb

 

May I propose that those who are delving into a "soup of consciousness" have already had a taste of it and definitely want a bigger helping.

That doesn't answer the question at all. I asked if it was even worth it. People try meth and start doing more of it. Doesn't exactly lead down a great path now does it?

And what of the individuals who wish to keep their free will and not be a part of it?

Originally posted by PhantomLimb

Originally posted by smithjustinb


Ecstatic Joy:
This is what everyone really wants more than anything else in the world. To achieve it in the eyes of oneness is easy. All you have to do is something that gives someone else a reason to feel happy. For in the eyes of oneness, if you make someone else happy, you have effectively made yourself happy. Although you may not feel it in your own body, another body felt happy, and all is one so whether you felt it or not is irrelevant. Now you see in the long run if everyone has realized that all is one and works toward the happiness of everyone else, you can begin to see what great immense joy we could all be living in. Now our planet has become a happy planet and has increased the happiness of the entire universe by the degree that our planet has become happy in relation to the size of the universe. Now if every other planetary being has realized this from all over the universe you see that the Universe can be one great big happy thing and we can all live in harmony this way.

If you're trying to bring joy to others so that you might feel joy then that is the epitome of selfishness and serves to only feed the ego you say needs to be let go of. One should not bring joy to someone only because they will receive joy in return. In fact, to give someone something that brings them great joy but at the expense of your happiness is the epitome of selflessness and in fact would be getting rid of the ego, no?

I really don't see what you mean because any time I give bring joy to someone, that is bringing joy to myself because I am both the giver and the receiver. It may be said that it is selfish to want to give joy just so I can get it in my body. But in fact, I know that I don't automatically feel happiness just because I make someone else feel happy but I find comfort in giving happiness knowing that they are me. I know that even though I don't feel the joy, it still exists. I'm okay with that. Eventually I adapt to my actions of "giving up my happiness" because eventually with the continued perception of oneness I see that I never actually gave up happiness at all. I just might never have felt it personally. That's a sacrifice I am willing to make.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by PhantomLimb

Originally posted by smithjustinb


Ecstatic Joy:
This is what everyone really wants more than anything else in the world. To achieve it in the eyes of oneness is easy. All you have to do is something that gives someone else a reason to feel happy. For in the eyes of oneness, if you make someone else happy, you have effectively made yourself happy. Although you may not feel it in your own body, another body felt happy, and all is one so whether you felt it or not is irrelevant. Now you see in the long run if everyone has realized that all is one and works toward the happiness of everyone else, you can begin to see what great immense joy we could all be living in. Now our planet has become a happy planet and has increased the happiness of the entire universe by the degree that our planet has become happy in relation to the size of the universe. Now if every other planetary being has realized this from all over the universe you see that the Universe can be one great big happy thing and we can all live in harmony this way.

If you're trying to bring joy to others so that you might feel joy then that is the epitome of selfishness and serves to only feed the ego you say needs to be let go of. One should not bring joy to someone only because they will receive joy in return. In fact, to give someone something that brings them great joy but at the expense of your happiness is the epitome of selflessness and in fact would be getting rid of the ego, no?

I really don't see what you mean because any time I give bring joy to someone, that is bringing joy to myself because I am both the giver and the receiver. It may be said that it is selfish to want to give joy just so I can get it in my body. But in fact, I know that I don't automatically feel happiness just because I make someone else feel happy but I find comfort in giving happiness knowing that they are me. I know that even though I don't feel the joy, it still exists. I'm okay with that. Eventually I adapt to my actions of "giving up my happiness" because eventually with the continued perception of oneness I see that I never actually gave up happiness at all. I just might never have felt it personally. That's a sacrifice I am willing to make.

Well then if I'm you and you are me then where does that leave free will? How can an individual make a choice based on their wants if at the same time it is a choice being made for you and it still be called free will?

More or less, where does oneness end and individuality begin when it comes to conscious thought and action?

Originally posted by PhantomLimb

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Before you delve into a soup of consciousness and become one with everything should you not be asking yourself if it is even worth it? Why or why not?

reply to post by PhantomLimb

 

May I propose that those who are delving into a "soup of consciousness" have already had a taste of it and definitely want a bigger helping.

That doesn't answer the question at all. I asked if it was even worth it. People try meth and start doing more of it. Doesn't exactly lead down a great path now does it?

And what of the individuals who wish to keep their free will and not be a part of it?

Asking if Oneness is worth it, is like asking if joy is worth it or unconditional love. You are free to make a choice if you want to take the selfish path or the selfless path, and eventually both paths become one, but they are paths, and that means you don't instantaneously arrive at the absolute all at once. So there's still a reason for you to live on, increasing your perception of the whole one part of it at a time. But there is a greater part after our current part, and a greater part after that that's greater than what's next. The paths are love and happiness, or power and control. You are free to walk either, but one day you will decide to make a choice, unless you want to just stay where you are for eternity, reincarnating into earth like planets lifetime after lifetime. I'm pretty sure your soul knows that this is not what you want even though you might not. Our souls know that we are journeying to Oneness.

Why would you not want to be a part of it. It is something beautiful to be a part of. A world where every one works for the greater good of everyone else. Yeah. Sure you might lose free will a little bit, but you lose free will and gain eternal bliss. I'd rather have eternal bliss. But, nevertheless, you are free to have free will.

I need to add that whether you want to be a part of it or not is irrelevant. You are inevitably one with the universe. Your human brain will make you believe you are not, but then you see you are living in an illusion. Separation is an illusion. You can choose to remain in the illusion or you can take the other pill and dive into the "matrix" of absolute reality. You have that choice. As long as humanity ignores this inevitability of oneness, we will likely always have problems in this world and never know the peace that passes understanding.

When you realize oneness, the only aspect of free will you lose is selfishness. Selflessness becomes the path you must walk. And it is a glorious path and is worth walking.

Like I said, it is an inevitability. The path is self sacrifice in service to others. You are free to walk the path or not. But you will never know eternal joy unless you do.

reply to post by PhantomLimb

That doesn't answer the question at all. I asked if it was even worth it. People try meth and start doing more of it. Doesn't exactly lead down a great path now does it?

I see your point.

How does one measure the worth of doing something? It probably depends on personal values.

Equipoise, peace, integrity, truth, clarity of mind, selflessness, mindfulness, loving understanding, these are some of the qualities I value, and all of these qualities seem to come easier when a greater state of oneness is approached.

And what of the individuals who wish to keep their free will and not be a part of it?

I don't understand in what way you imagine that free will is sacrificed. Being part of "oneness" is not like being herded into a camp with like-minded individuals, it is rather an awareness or consciousness of the connection we have with all others and our place in the universe. It is an increase in clarity of perception, I would say.

Originally posted by PhantomLimb

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by PhantomLimb

Originally posted by smithjustinb


Ecstatic Joy:
This is what everyone really wants more than anything else in the world. To achieve it in the eyes of oneness is easy. All you have to do is something that gives someone else a reason to feel happy. For in the eyes of oneness, if you make someone else happy, you have effectively made yourself happy. Although you may not feel it in your own body, another body felt happy, and all is one so whether you felt it or not is irrelevant. Now you see in the long run if everyone has realized that all is one and works toward the happiness of everyone else, you can begin to see what great immense joy we could all be living in. Now our planet has become a happy planet and has increased the happiness of the entire universe by the degree that our planet has become happy in relation to the size of the universe. Now if every other planetary being has realized this from all over the universe you see that the Universe can be one great big happy thing and we can all live in harmony this way.

If you're trying to bring joy to others so that you might feel joy then that is the epitome of selfishness and serves to only feed the ego you say needs to be let go of. One should not bring joy to someone only because they will receive joy in return. In fact, to give someone something that brings them great joy but at the expense of your happiness is the epitome of selflessness and in fact would be getting rid of the ego, no?

I really don't see what you mean because any time I give bring joy to someone, that is bringing joy to myself because I am both the giver and the receiver. It may be said that it is selfish to want to give joy just so I can get it in my body. But in fact, I know that I don't automatically feel happiness just because I make someone else feel happy but I find comfort in giving happiness knowing that they are me. I know that even though I don't feel the joy, it still exists. I'm okay with that. Eventually I adapt to my actions of "giving up my happiness" because eventually with the continued perception of oneness I see that I never actually gave up happiness at all. I just might never have felt it personally. That's a sacrifice I am willing to make.

Well then if I'm you and you are me then where does that leave free will? How can an individual make a choice based on their wants if at the same time it is a choice being made for you and it still be called free will?

More or less, where does oneness end and individuality begin when it comes to conscious thought and action?

edit on 1/17/2011 by PhantomLimb because: (no reason given)

Upon perceiving oneness the only choice you will "want" to make is a choice that involves doing something for someone else. I believe that you never lose full individuality until you arrive at the absolute.

Free will is an illusion as well. All things are done for the greater good of the all. You eventually evolve to a point of just pure being of infinite intelligence. There is nothing to do at that point, you just are.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Asking if Oneness is worth it, is like asking if joy is worth it or unconditional love. You are free to make a choice if you want to take the selfish path or the selfless path, and eventually both paths become one, but they are paths, and that means you don't instantaneously arrive at the absolute all at once. So there's still a reason for you to live on, increasing your perception of the whole one part of it at a time. But there is a greater part after our current part, and a greater part after that that's greater than what's next. The paths are love and happiness, or power and control. You are free to walk either, but one day you will decide to make a choice, unless you want to just stay where you are for eternity, reincarnating into earth like planets lifetime after lifetime. I'm pretty sure your soul knows that this is not what you want even though you might not. Our souls know that we are journeying to Oneness.

Why would you not want to be a part of it. It is something beautiful to be a part of. A world where every one works for the greater good of everyone else. Yeah. Sure you might lose free will a little bit, but you lose free will and gain eternal bliss. I'd rather have eternal bliss. But, nevertheless, you are free to have free will.

I need to add that whether you want to be a part of it or not is irrelevant. You are inevitably one with the universe. Your human brain will make you believe you are not, but then you see you are living in an illusion. Separation is an illusion. You can choose to remain in the illusion or you can take the other pill and dive into the "matrix" of absolute reality. You have that choice. As long as humanity ignores this inevitability of oneness, we will likely always have problems in this world and never know the peace that passes understanding.

When you realize oneness, the only aspect of free will you lose is selfishness. Selflessness becomes the path you must walk. And it is a glorious path and is worth walking.

Like I said, it is an inevitability. The path is self sacrifice in service to others. You are free to walk the path or not. But you will never know eternal joy unless you do.

If you lose any aspect of free will then you have no free will.

reply to post by PhantomLimb

More or less, where does oneness end and individuality begin when it comes to conscious thought and action?

That is an excellent question, and also highlights my personal aversion to the word "oneness". (I use the word here because it is the subject of the thread.)

Individuality is always maintained, the self does not lose its personal point of reference, but the consciousness of self diminishes in relation to the consciousness of the greater whole. Thoughts and actions become more mindful of our part in the world, both near and farther afield.

reply to post by smithjustinb


I seem to be posting my replies to the same questions at the same time as your own responses. It is interesting to see where our thoughts align, and also where they differ slightly.

Originally posted by PhantomLimb

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Asking if Oneness is worth it, is like asking if joy is worth it or unconditional love. You are free to make a choice if you want to take the selfish path or the selfless path, and eventually both paths become one, but they are paths, and that means you don't instantaneously arrive at the absolute all at once. So there's still a reason for you to live on, increasing your perception of the whole one part of it at a time. But there is a greater part after our current part, and a greater part after that that's greater than what's next. The paths are love and happiness, or power and control. You are free to walk either, but one day you will decide to make a choice, unless you want to just stay where you are for eternity, reincarnating into earth like planets lifetime after lifetime. I'm pretty sure your soul knows that this is not what you want even though you might not. Our souls know that we are journeying to Oneness.

Why would you not want to be a part of it. It is something beautiful to be a part of. A world where every one works for the greater good of everyone else. Yeah. Sure you might lose free will a little bit, but you lose free will and gain eternal bliss. I'd rather have eternal bliss. But, nevertheless, you are free to have free will.

I need to add that whether you want to be a part of it or not is irrelevant. You are inevitably one with the universe. Your human brain will make you believe you are not, but then you see you are living in an illusion. Separation is an illusion. You can choose to remain in the illusion or you can take the other pill and dive into the "matrix" of absolute reality. You have that choice. As long as humanity ignores this inevitability of oneness, we will likely always have problems in this world and never know the peace that passes understanding.

When you realize oneness, the only aspect of free will you lose is selfishness. Selflessness becomes the path you must walk. And it is a glorious path and is worth walking.

Like I said, it is an inevitability. The path is self sacrifice in service to others. You are free to walk the path or not. But you will never know eternal joy unless you do.

If you lose any aspect of free will then you have no free will.

You're right. In the end, you do in fact lose free will and become pure infinite being where there is nothing to do but just be, and therefore no decisions to make in any act of will, but the end is a long way away. There are certain steps we will progress through to reach the end. My point was that eventually we will have to make a choice. Do we want to take the selfish path or the selfless path. From then on free will is diminished in the sense that all actions you do past that choice are either going to be self-serving, or serving others. It might not be completely one or the other at first but we have potential to become complete in one or the other at some point.

Originally posted by smithjustinb


Upon perceiving oneness the only choice you will "want" to make is a choice that involves doing something for someone else. I believe that you never lose full individuality until you arrive at the absolute.

Free will is an illusion as well. All things are done for the greater good of the all. You eventually evolve to a point of just pure being of infinite intelligence. There is nothing to do at that point, you just are.

Originally posted by smithjustinb


When you realize oneness, the only aspect of free will you lose is selfishness.

If free will is an illusion then I never had it to begin with. This is absurd.

What is the greater good of all? What is good?

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by PhantomLimb

 

More or less, where does oneness end and individuality begin when it comes to conscious thought and action?

That is an excellent question, and also highlights my personal aversion to the word "oneness". (I use the word here because it is the subject of the thread.)

Individuality is always maintained, the self does not lose its personal point of reference, but the consciousness of self diminishes in relation to the consciousness of the greater whole. Thoughts and actions become more mindful of our part in the world, both near and farther afield.

The problem is that what is "good" for the greater whole is sometimes bad for the individual.

No one will convince me of this being something legitimate to even think of. The double think involved is mind boggling. All this is is a re-branding of all the worlds religions without the deities.

Originally posted by PhantomLimb

Originally posted by smithjustinb


Upon perceiving oneness the only choice you will "want" to make is a choice that involves doing something for someone else. I believe that you never lose full individuality until you arrive at the absolute.

Free will is an illusion as well. All things are done for the greater good of the all. You eventually evolve to a point of just pure being of infinite intelligence. There is nothing to do at that point, you just are.

Originally posted by smithjustinb


When you realize oneness, the only aspect of free will you lose is selfishness.

If free will is an illusion then I never had it to begin with. This is absurd.

What is the greater good of all? What is good?

I'll answer your last question first.
Good is whatever the collective wants it to be. For our collective consciousness we label things like love and joy and productivity etc. good.

question #1:
This exceeds my understanding. I will attempt an explanation, but I am now diving in unfamiliar waters and might encounter sharks.

Oneness is reality. Any action you do is an action of a small part of a greater whole. The whole is infinity. When you arrive at the awareness of infinity, you become every possible action. But you aren't that guy on earth anymore carrying out an action. You are every guy on every planet carrying out every possible action. There is nothing to do but to just be still and observe. Observe yourself as the whole. The only whole. That's the best explanation I can offer. Its late here in the Eastern time zone. I'll reply to any more posts tomorrow.

The problem is that what is "good" for the greater whole is sometimes bad for the individual.

reply to post by PhantomLimb


Being mindful of the greater whole ('good" was not my word) does not imply taking actions which could be detrimental or bad for the individual. A balanced outlook is also something which I think comes with an expanded awareness.

I just read on a religious thread where a Christian stated that he would not wish hell on anyone. Funnily enough, I feel kind of the same way about this onenness thing - I wouldn't wish it on anyone. If this is something for you then I believe it will happen in the right timing for you, and not a moment sooner.

Originally posted by PhantomLimb
No one will convince me of this being something legitimate to even think of. The double think involved is mind boggling. All this is is a re-branding of all the worlds religions without the deities.

I accept the deities as having existed. So it isn't without the deities. At this point it isn't up to anyone to convince you. You entered this forum already knowing that you weren't going to accept it and now you're leaving knowing you aren't going to accept it. There exists a term for that, its called closed-mindedness. I've always kept an open mind, I wouldn't have posted something like this if I hadn't experienced it first hand as being true. I would have never taken the leap of faith required to challenge what I believed about my existence in such a way that I have now arrived at this final conclusion that has made all of life's mystery's unmystery and led to a relatively unimaginable fulfillment. I am thankful that I adopted an open mind, otherwise I probably would have denied reality every time it hit me in the face.

No one will convince me of this being something legitimate to even think of.

reply to post by PhantomLimb


Asking questions is never wasted, in my opinion. Your conclusion is not unreasonable based on what you may have read here. In the end, it boils down to a matter of personal perspective.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by PhantomLimb
No one will convince me of this being something legitimate to even think of. The double think involved is mind boggling. All this is is a re-branding of all the worlds religions without the deities.

I accept the deities as having existed. So it isn't without the deities. At this point it isn't up to anyone to convince you. You entered this forum already knowing that you weren't going to accept it and now you're leaving knowing you aren't going to accept it. There exists a term for that, its called closed-mindedness. I've always kept an open mind, I wouldn't have posted something like this if I hadn't experienced it first hand as being true. I would have never taken the leap of faith required to challenge what I believed about my existence in such a way that I have now arrived at this final conclusion that has made all of life's mystery's unmystery and led to a relatively unimaginable fulfillment. I am thankful that I adopted an open mind, otherwise I probably would have denied reality every time it hit me in the face.

There is no such thing as open-mindedness. No one is open to any and every experience. If someone asked you to do something you thought immoral would you do it out of open-mindedness? No. We are all close-minded in some ways. By saying this oneness is the only way like it or not is to be close-minded. I wouldn't be surprised if you say that about everyone who doesn't agree with the idea. Everyone has their own beliefs and philosophical outlook on life. Maybe you should be open-minded and look into others to see if there is one that makes more sense to you? You never know...

And no, before I clicked into this forum I did not think I was not going to accept it or not. I didn't know what it was about at first. I've read all the posts and I've come to the conclusion that it's not something I'm interested in. Believe me, it makes perfect sense to look out for your fellow man and to recognize that we need to take care of each other. But if everything were beautiful how would we know?

Originally posted by mysticnoon

No one will convince me of this being something legitimate to even think of.

reply to post by PhantomLimb

 

Asking question is never wasted, in my opinion. Your conclusion is not unreasonable based on what you may have read here. In the end, it boils down to a matter of personal perspective.

The reality is, from my experience, no one can make you believe anything. You have to figure everything out for yourself. You start from something more basic, like love for instance. You then proceed to contemplate love in many different ways and approaches until you are shown divine wisdom in an AHA moment. You then can apply this higher wisdom and contemplate more and arrive at another AHA! moment. You do that enough times and I promise you will arrive at the same conclusion I did.

I've already been through the spiritual seeking, and done the hard inner work. Now that I'm through, for me, there's nothing left to do inwardly and at this point in my life I have to practice what I preach. I see this as my next step in my personal spiritual evolution. I am at the point where I need to show outwardly what I learned inwardly.

By saying this oneness is the only way like it or not is to be close-minded.

reply to post by PhantomLimb


Even though I support the "onenness" way (in my individual way, lol), I totally agree that other philosophies may be just as valid, if not truer or closer to the mark.

I also think there is a distinction between sharing an idea, and preaching it. I hope there has been more sharing than preaching from my end.