reply to post by Annee
Everyone does have a right to fight for their country.
What they do not have a right to do is be "openly" something or another.
This is a slippery slope that leads straight (pun intended) to doom for our country. It will destroy and divide us, just as this thread represents.
Don't ask and don't tell was fine and worked for the military.
Although I do not support our military.
I am not sure why you became so incensed???
I would read my post very carefully.
Officer won't sign order for troop pro-homosexual indoctrination, page 42
reply posted on 3-1-2011 @ 11:34 AM by Annee
Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by Annee
Everyone does have a right to fight for their country.
What they do not have a right to do is be "openly" something or another.
This is a slippery slope that leads straight (pun intended) to doom for our country. It will destroy and divide us, just as this thread represents.
Don't ask and don't tell was fine and worked for the military.
Although I do not support our military.
I am not sure why you became so incensed???
I would read my post very carefully.
Heteros showing photos of their girlfriends and wives is not being Open? Get real.
The only thing I see dividing this country and the world throughout history is Religion.
"Don't Ask Don't Tell" - - is an insult!
You don't support our military? Our Military is made up of mostly young impressionable and idealistic adolescents. Many come from poor areas and see it as a way to better themselves. But you don't support them.
People do not make war - - politicians do.
Not supporting wars is one thing.
Not supporting those who put their life on the line to protect us (or believe they are protecting us) - - is something else.
reply posted on 3-1-2011 @ 11:49 AM by Dr Cosma
reply to post by Annee
Ok, so because you stepped out of you little christian circle, I have tobelieve you?
So because you dont believe it, it's not true, is that what you are saying?
You dont like an agenda being pushed on someone else?
A bit like the topic, wouldnt you say?
Gays being forced into the military, then some people even go as far as saying, blacks are in the military
I mean, who the hell are these people?
You have obviously never been in real danger or the military.
You live in a bubble of cos you do.
You sit there and moan about things you could not possibly comprehend.
You buy your food.
You dont fight the wars.
You live in a bubble.
Ok, so because you stepped out of you little christian circle, I have tobelieve you?
So because you dont believe it, it's not true, is that what you are saying?
You dont like an agenda being pushed on someone else?
A bit like the topic, wouldnt you say?
Gays being forced into the military, then some people even go as far as saying, blacks are in the military
I mean, who the hell are these people?
You have obviously never been in real danger or the military.
You live in a bubble of cos you do.
You sit there and moan about things you could not possibly comprehend.
You buy your food.
You dont fight the wars.
You live in a bubble.
reply posted on 3-1-2011 @ 11:58 AM by Josephus23
reply to post by Annee
I think that you are misunderstanding my position.
I do not oppose anyone who does anything consenting, but what is a problem is the continued progression of an agenda concerning a lifestyle that was considered a developmental disability and illegal until 1973.
Let me repeat that....
I am not opposed to anyone doing what they personally wish, but what I am opposed to is the promotion of any type of a lifestyle.
Just as there are certain topics that we do not discuss here at ATS (read my likes and you will see what I am talking about), the military set standards.
Let's discuss why this was considered a developmental disability....
Do you know that gay marriage is legal in Canada, but only 1% of the population engages in this activity when estimates of up to 10% of the population engages in homosexual activity?
The backbone of the human race is reproduction.
We can not even begin to estimate the damage that this does to an individual because this phenomenon is around 40 years old.
Imagine that heterosexuals feel just as vehement about their lifestyle as homosexuals.
The damage that has been done by the religion of Rome to the homosexual community swings both ways (another pun).
And when I say phenomenon, I am speaking of being "openly" gay in a community that was incessantly against this behavior not very long ago.
I do not preclude anyone from doing anything.
I personally think that sex should not be something that is SO openly discussed.
Hetero, homo, or auto...
This is something that should be handled within the family unit, but because of the continued destruction of the family unit, the state felt it had to step in.
Problem, reaction, solution. More state power.
"sex education" has become "sex indoctrination", and it always has been.
This is a subversive tactic.
And if you want to thank anyone for sexuality being so openly discussed....
Thank Wilhelm Reich, but please note his book that I personally treasure called the Mass Psychology of Fascism.
I would suggest reading this link and looking into Reich and his writings before painting me with such a wide brush stroke.
I think that you are misunderstanding my position.
I do not oppose anyone who does anything consenting, but what is a problem is the continued progression of an agenda concerning a lifestyle that was considered a developmental disability and illegal until 1973.
Let me repeat that....
I am not opposed to anyone doing what they personally wish, but what I am opposed to is the promotion of any type of a lifestyle.
Just as there are certain topics that we do not discuss here at ATS (read my likes and you will see what I am talking about), the military set standards.
Let's discuss why this was considered a developmental disability....
Do you know that gay marriage is legal in Canada, but only 1% of the population engages in this activity when estimates of up to 10% of the population engages in homosexual activity?
The backbone of the human race is reproduction.
We can not even begin to estimate the damage that this does to an individual because this phenomenon is around 40 years old.
Imagine that heterosexuals feel just as vehement about their lifestyle as homosexuals.
The damage that has been done by the religion of Rome to the homosexual community swings both ways (another pun).
And when I say phenomenon, I am speaking of being "openly" gay in a community that was incessantly against this behavior not very long ago.
I do not preclude anyone from doing anything.
I personally think that sex should not be something that is SO openly discussed.
Hetero, homo, or auto...
This is something that should be handled within the family unit, but because of the continued destruction of the family unit, the state felt it had to step in.
Problem, reaction, solution. More state power.
"sex education" has become "sex indoctrination", and it always has been.
This is a subversive tactic.
And if you want to thank anyone for sexuality being so openly discussed....
Thank Wilhelm Reich, but please note his book that I personally treasure called the Mass Psychology of Fascism.
I would suggest reading this link and looking into Reich and his writings before painting me with such a wide brush stroke.
reply posted on 3-1-2011 @ 12:02 PM by Dr Cosma
reply to post by Annee
You are missing out the main thing here, it's the military.
They are not there to parade.
It's not about the uniforms
It's about war and money.
There are no countries and no people.
The country is a business and you are the employee.
Those who do not understand that are lost.
Do you think the enemy are enlisting gays into their military?
Will the gay men and women have their own showers?
Gay men are atracted to men!
So wouldnt it be logical to assume that in the showers there will be some kind of atraction?
Think about it ffs.
This goes also for gay women.
All this is a distraction, cant you see that
And that, is not, what the military are about.
You are 64 and you dont know this...
You are missing out the main thing here, it's the military.
They are not there to parade.
It's not about the uniforms
It's about war and money.
There are no countries and no people.
The country is a business and you are the employee.
Those who do not understand that are lost.
Do you think the enemy are enlisting gays into their military?
Will the gay men and women have their own showers?
Gay men are atracted to men!
So wouldnt it be logical to assume that in the showers there will be some kind of atraction?
Think about it ffs.
This goes also for gay women.
All this is a distraction, cant you see that
And that, is not, what the military are about.
You are 64 and you dont know this...
reply posted on 3-1-2011 @ 12:06 PM by Dr Cosma
reply to post by starchild10
The US military has no brains?
Yet they have bases all over the world?
lol
That's pretty clever to me, I donno..
Also, if there ever was a martial law, the US military would have it's citizens under control, that is pretty clever to me, not the work of people with no brains.
The US military has no brains?
Yet they have bases all over the world?
lol
That's pretty clever to me, I donno..
Also, if there ever was a martial law, the US military would have it's citizens under control, that is pretty clever to me, not the work of people with no brains.
edit on 3-1-2011 by Dr Cosma because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 3-1-2011 @ 12:11 PM by Annee
Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by Annee
I think that you are misunderstanding my position.
I do not oppose anyone who does anything consenting, but what is a problem is the continued progression of an agenda concerning a lifestyle that was considered a developmental disability and illegal until 1973.
Let me repeat that....
I am not opposed to anyone doing what they personally wish, but what I am opposed to is the promotion of any type of a lifestyle.
We can not continue with this discussion as long as you keep referring to gay as a Lifestyle - - meaning being gay is a choice. It is not a choice - - it is a birthright.
The stuff you are posting is just excuses.
reply posted on 3-1-2011 @ 12:16 PM by Annee
Originally posted by Dr Cosma
reply to post by Annee
You are missing out the main thing here, it's the military.
Excuses - excuses - excuses.
The military is PEOPLE who work for the government. Granted there is a specific purpose - - but - still just PEOPLE.
PEOPLE are PEOPLE - - its really that simple.
reply posted on 3-1-2011 @ 12:18 PM by Josephus23
reply to post by Annee
Engaging in homosexual acts and the promotion of a lifestyle are two completely different animals.
If you were to actually read Reich, then you would see that he states that the way that fascists come into power is through the control of the sexual drive.
He saw that repression of the sexual drive lead to fascism, but it can very easily be turned around to face the other direction.
The entire point in me stating the difference between an activity and a lifestyle, is that one is promoted.
What the military is promoting is the acceptance of a lifestyle and not an activity...
And control over sexuality is how governments maintain control over people, because the sex drive is innate.
It causes irrational behavior, whether it is homo or hetero.
And control over irrational behavior is behind the idea of consumerism.
What I am discussing is not on the superficial level that you seem to want to discuss.
Engaging in homosexual acts and the promotion of a lifestyle are two completely different animals.
If you were to actually read Reich, then you would see that he states that the way that fascists come into power is through the control of the sexual drive.
He saw that repression of the sexual drive lead to fascism, but it can very easily be turned around to face the other direction.
The entire point in me stating the difference between an activity and a lifestyle, is that one is promoted.
What the military is promoting is the acceptance of a lifestyle and not an activity...
And control over sexuality is how governments maintain control over people, because the sex drive is innate.
It causes irrational behavior, whether it is homo or hetero.
And control over irrational behavior is behind the idea of consumerism.
What I am discussing is not on the superficial level that you seem to want to discuss.
reply posted on 3-1-2011 @ 12:23 PM by orangetom1999
reply to post by Josephus23
Hello Josephus23,
Great to see you on this thread.
I gotta tell you ..I have never heard of Max Weber until you posted here. I thank you for that intro and have book marked the Wiki link on him. Very interesting the portion I have read.
I agree with you here and have stated so. We are going to see much much more of this template of division rather than uniting.
I also think people hetero or homo should never define themselves by their sex, sexuality or sexual orientation.
People are so much more than this.
As I said in a previous post. People used to be sufficiently intelligent to define who and what they were by their lineage, their occupations, or some great work they have done or left to posterity.
Today with our accelerated sense of entitlement or or television/movie educations we want to define ourselves by our sex, sexuality, sexual orientation or some great movie or television program we have watched and after which we want to model ourselves.
I gotta tell you this too Josephus23 I am not a big fan of George Carlin. But every now and then that crusty olde dog hits one right out of the ball park..even in humor. I cannot deny this....as hard as I might try or disagree with his technique. He is in the X ring on somethings...even and especially in humor.
Annee,
Wow!! Biblical whoredom is selling your soul or someone else's to an unGodly template. Very different from what you describe.
I am not speaking here against sex or sexuality here per se..I am speaking of people who "only" have this template to define themselves. You seem to have difficulty with this concept. I happen to think that homosexuals are more than sex. What gets to me by the very label they use ...that is their main claim to fame...their sexuality, sexual orientation. I don't go along with this ..from anyone.
This is not worthy of you Anne...
For many peoples this is the great work of their lives..their families or potential families. What they do in or out of their sex lives is their private business and not to be declared as a means of acceptance or be forced on others for acceptance. Thinking people know this. Emotional entitlement people do not. Your narrow mindedness here is astonishing in it's entitlement focus on sexuality. Wow!! Public Education.
When I see a photo of someones family I don't think of their sex lives. It is none of my business nor yours. What are you thinking here. Wow!!! With what religion are you trying to pull the olde bait and switch here?? The sex religion? What is the name of this sex religion of come out in the OPEN???
Do you see how easy it is once you know the pattern???
Only personal envy or jealousy in the flesh can get the effect you have the audacity to post here. Not everyone out here is interested in the flesh per se. They don't want it blasted or forced on them from anyone or anything. Hetero or homo.
I suggest you get real here before speaking to others in this very narrow manner.
I also ask myself and the board out here by what religion you are attempting to divide people with forced guilt acceptance and the blame game ??
I agree with you here.
But I am not interested in their sex lives, sexuality, or sexual orientation. This should be their private business..not public business. Not interested ..no thanks.
The primary business of the Military is preparedness..for military action/disciplines...not sexuality. Nor a template for sexual social programs...ie a tool of the body politic looking for votes.
Adding this in edit to this post...
Wow!!! Josephus23,
I have myself noticed this pattern in operation throughout the centuries. Often hidden/conceled but just under the surface in different nations, societies,and structures. Drugs and or Pharmakeia seems to be a common thread attatched to this sex, sexuality, sexual orientation. I have not quite sorted this out but it is an extension of my looking at occult religions. A seemingly common thread or pattern.
It does indeed seem to be a common thread of control by sex/sex ritual. I suspect that this pattern is attempting to make a resurgence.
Thanks,
Orangetom
Hello Josephus23,
Great to see you on this thread.
I gotta tell you ..I have never heard of Max Weber until you posted here. I thank you for that intro and have book marked the Wiki link on him. Very interesting the portion I have read.
I agree with you here and have stated so. We are going to see much much more of this template of division rather than uniting.
I do not care what someone wants to do, if it is consenting between two parties, but the propaganda matrix that surrounds us is using the homosexual agenda to divide the people of this country.
I also think people hetero or homo should never define themselves by their sex, sexuality or sexual orientation.
People are so much more than this.
As I said in a previous post. People used to be sufficiently intelligent to define who and what they were by their lineage, their occupations, or some great work they have done or left to posterity.
Today with our accelerated sense of entitlement or or television/movie educations we want to define ourselves by our sex, sexuality, sexual orientation or some great movie or television program we have watched and after which we want to model ourselves.
I gotta tell you this too Josephus23 I am not a big fan of George Carlin. But every now and then that crusty olde dog hits one right out of the ball park..even in humor. I cannot deny this....as hard as I might try or disagree with his technique. He is in the X ring on somethings...even and especially in humor.
Annee,
Sexual attraction is not SEX. Sex is an act. Whoredom would be using sex.
Wow!! Biblical whoredom is selling your soul or someone else's to an unGodly template. Very different from what you describe.
I am not speaking here against sex or sexuality here per se..I am speaking of people who "only" have this template to define themselves. You seem to have difficulty with this concept. I happen to think that homosexuals are more than sex. What gets to me by the very label they use ...that is their main claim to fame...their sexuality, sexual orientation. I don't go along with this ..from anyone.
This is not worthy of you Anne...
Heteros showing photos of their girlfriends and wives is not being Open? Get real.
The only thing I see dividing this country and the world throughout history is Religion.
For many peoples this is the great work of their lives..their families or potential families. What they do in or out of their sex lives is their private business and not to be declared as a means of acceptance or be forced on others for acceptance. Thinking people know this. Emotional entitlement people do not. Your narrow mindedness here is astonishing in it's entitlement focus on sexuality. Wow!! Public Education.
When I see a photo of someones family I don't think of their sex lives. It is none of my business nor yours. What are you thinking here. Wow!!! With what religion are you trying to pull the olde bait and switch here?? The sex religion? What is the name of this sex religion of come out in the OPEN???
Do you see how easy it is once you know the pattern???
Only personal envy or jealousy in the flesh can get the effect you have the audacity to post here. Not everyone out here is interested in the flesh per se. They don't want it blasted or forced on them from anyone or anything. Hetero or homo.
I suggest you get real here before speaking to others in this very narrow manner.
I also ask myself and the board out here by what religion you are attempting to divide people with forced guilt acceptance and the blame game ??
I agree with you here.
EVERY able bodied citizen deserves the right to defend their country.
But I am not interested in their sex lives, sexuality, or sexual orientation. This should be their private business..not public business. Not interested ..no thanks.
The primary business of the Military is preparedness..for military action/disciplines...not sexuality. Nor a template for sexual social programs...ie a tool of the body politic looking for votes.
Adding this in edit to this post...
Wow!!! Josephus23,
If you were to actually read Reich, then you would see that he states that the way that fascists come into power is through the control of the sexual drive.
He saw that repression of the sexual drive lead to fascism, but it can very easily be turned around to face the other direction.
I have myself noticed this pattern in operation throughout the centuries. Often hidden/conceled but just under the surface in different nations, societies,and structures. Drugs and or Pharmakeia seems to be a common thread attatched to this sex, sexuality, sexual orientation. I have not quite sorted this out but it is an extension of my looking at occult religions. A seemingly common thread or pattern.
It does indeed seem to be a common thread of control by sex/sex ritual. I suspect that this pattern is attempting to make a resurgence.
Thanks,
Orangetom
edit on 3-1-2011 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 3-1-2011 @ 12:56 PM by Josephus23
Originally posted by orangetom1999
reply to post by Josephus23
Weber is one of my favorite sociologists, along with Emile Durkheim.
Both look at society and dissect it in different ways, but with a common theme.
Durkheim is a positivist, where Weber is an anti-positivist, but they both contribute to the understanding of societies and what is behind their rise and fall.
I am a big fan of Durkheim's thoughts on the concept of anomy
Spot on my friend. It is happening in this thread.
People who allow themselves to be driven by emotion are easily swayed.
I am not sure if you are familiar with Albert Bandura, but check him out and his research into the concept of modeling regarding human motivation.
Carlin is an enigma in my opinion. While he was very honest about the moral situation in our country, he also contributed to its decline.
I personally believe that the reason that he was allowed to perform his shtick was because he promoted the idea of religion as being total BS, but yet promoted the worship of the Sun.
(We could get into another discussion concerning sun worship)
reply to post by Josephus23
I gotta tell you ..I have never heard of Max Weber until you posted here. I thank you for that intro and have book marked the Wiki link on him. Very interesting the portion I have read.
Weber is one of my favorite sociologists, along with Emile Durkheim.
Both look at society and dissect it in different ways, but with a common theme.
Durkheim is a positivist, where Weber is an anti-positivist, but they both contribute to the understanding of societies and what is behind their rise and fall.
I am a big fan of Durkheim's thoughts on the concept of anomy
We are going to see much much more of this template of division rather than uniting.
Spot on my friend. It is happening in this thread.
People who allow themselves to be driven by emotion are easily swayed.
Today with our accelerated sense of entitlement or or television/movie educations we want to define ourselves by our sex, sexuality, sexual orientation or some great movie or television program we have watched and after which we want to model ourselves.
I am not sure if you are familiar with Albert Bandura, but check him out and his research into the concept of modeling regarding human motivation.
I gotta tell you this too Josephus23 I am not a big fan of George Carlin. But every now and then that crusty olde dog hits one right out of the ball park..
Carlin is an enigma in my opinion. While he was very honest about the moral situation in our country, he also contributed to its decline.
I personally believe that the reason that he was allowed to perform his shtick was because he promoted the idea of religion as being total BS, but yet promoted the worship of the Sun.
(We could get into another discussion concerning sun worship)
reply posted on 3-1-2011 @ 01:42 PM by Annee
reply to post by Josephus23
Perhaps - - you should resurrect a Wilhelm Reich thread on ATS or start a new one. I personally don't see how Wilhelm Reich really fits the OP. Others may have a different opinion.
Maybe you can respond to the poster who stated on linked ATS thread: "It's like the Heterosexual's who ram their breeding's agenda's down people's throats . . .
Wilhelm Reich is good but was brung up a bad soul, ie a Homophobe, so he is just a bad soul really. He had some bad character armour and a possible suppressed same sex leaning's."
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Perhaps - - you should resurrect a Wilhelm Reich thread on ATS or start a new one. I personally don't see how Wilhelm Reich really fits the OP. Others may have a different opinion.
Maybe you can respond to the poster who stated on linked ATS thread: "It's like the Heterosexual's who ram their breeding's agenda's down people's throats . . .
Wilhelm Reich is good but was brung up a bad soul, ie a Homophobe, so he is just a bad soul really. He had some bad character armour and a possible suppressed same sex leaning's."
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 3-1-2011 by Annee because: wording restructure
reply posted on 3-1-2011 @ 01:58 PM by Josephus23
reply to post by Annee
Who exactly am I trying to excuse?
I do not care who serves in the military. I do not care what someone who is courageous/foolish enough to die for "my freedom" does in their spare time.
I think that a more rational argument would be to place the same don't ask don't tell ban on hetero's as homo's.
By allowing the military to engage in moral degradation/selection, through sexual repression/suggestion, the same end comes from different means.
Any open sexual discussion in the military should be discouraged in my opinion.
Because just as you have shown that emotions will always trump logic, the same will happen with our military.
This has been used for eons by the ruling elite.
As was said by Orangetom... The point in a military is preparedness for defense. That is all.
Sexual orientation should have no place in the discussion.
This becomes that much more difficult when any type of sexual lifestyle is actively promoted, hetero or homo.
Where Hitler pushed the family unit as the initial "cell" of indoctrination of the masses, the same can go for the dissolution of the family unit for the indoctrination of the masses.
I was pointing to Reich because he promoted the ideals that you espouse, but he was trapped in a repressive society rather than an expressive society.
Each type, expressive or repressive, can lead to a breakdown between personal norms and expected social norms, which always leads to the same place.
Fascism. State control of beliefs. Problem. Reaction. Solution. Hegel.
Who exactly am I trying to excuse?
I do not care who serves in the military. I do not care what someone who is courageous/foolish enough to die for "my freedom" does in their spare time.
I think that a more rational argument would be to place the same don't ask don't tell ban on hetero's as homo's.
By allowing the military to engage in moral degradation/selection, through sexual repression/suggestion, the same end comes from different means.
Any open sexual discussion in the military should be discouraged in my opinion.
Because just as you have shown that emotions will always trump logic, the same will happen with our military.
This has been used for eons by the ruling elite.
As was said by Orangetom... The point in a military is preparedness for defense. That is all.
Sexual orientation should have no place in the discussion.
This becomes that much more difficult when any type of sexual lifestyle is actively promoted, hetero or homo.
Where Hitler pushed the family unit as the initial "cell" of indoctrination of the masses, the same can go for the dissolution of the family unit for the indoctrination of the masses.
I was pointing to Reich because he promoted the ideals that you espouse, but he was trapped in a repressive society rather than an expressive society.
Each type, expressive or repressive, can lead to a breakdown between personal norms and expected social norms, which always leads to the same place.
Fascism. State control of beliefs. Problem. Reaction. Solution. Hegel.
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