Officer won't sign order for troop pro-homosexual indoctrination

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posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 07:48 AM
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the repeal of dont ask dont tell is an attack at americas military. in the army when i trained there were certain values that were expressed that do not coincide with homosexuality.




posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:43 AM
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While getting a refill on my coffee this morning another thought ran through my head while digesting my post from the bottom of page. 44.

A post on "Labeling" and how often it is used/misused to mislead/misdirect or seduce unawares a public easily emoted to a position which many not actually be their belief system.

You see it so often by many on threads like this one. Yet I am not speaking exclusively on this one issue but a multitude of issues...in which when one learns to peel back the veneer of the surface politics and emotions..one can see the same hand or fingerprint working behind the scenes. Then one can sometimes tell the direction a thing is going or intends to go.

I am convinced that this template and the goals of this fingerprint are about to overtake the military in another arena though it has been going on for a while now in several arenas..in an attempt to make the military give up its primary goals and objectives and supplant them with social goals and objectives of the civilian world. This to the point where our military becomes its own worst enemy and is ineffective against others..but must follow civilian beliefs and expectation's ..primarily social beliefs and expectations.

I believe this will cause great distress and casualties in the long run on our military peoples. Also as someone has alluded..people will become frustrated with the military and those of any skills and knowledge/common sense ..will get out.

With this in mind let us look at today's politics and the use of "Labeling " to default through on the deceiving of the public conscience.

Label 1. Tax breaks for the rich.

There is a hidden message in this label..and that message is there is some kind of moral trespass that has taken place if one is labeled "RICH." That one has broken some kind of unwritten law or moral code...now measures can be taken place to punish or stigmatize these RICH peoples.
This is a easy label to put on unthinking emotional entitlement peoples without them being aware of it or the corrupt nature of where this will lead.

The problem with this is that is it known that if one takes all the wealth from "RICH ": peoples in this country it will not run this government for more than two or three weeks at the most. Then from who/whom will the government get their monies? After they take care of the RICH peoples ...to whom will they turn?? Who is left..who remains??

Once you understand this ..you can easily see how big a hoax this is...particularly when many of those passing the legislation are in what they call the RICH bracket. It gets very Wolfie after awhile in it's deceptiveness.

What I surmise is that we are already gone to the next tier of what happens after taking care of the RICH. But no one wants to declare this to the general public.
What I also surmise is that the same people pushing this one ...Tax breaks for the rich..are pushing the gay agenda...and towards the same goals. They both have the same "guilt fingerprints" attached to them as a modus operandi. A modification of the "Victim Dictum."

The point here is that this label is used to get tremendous and false leverage over the pubic without much individual thinking going on. It requires a dumb and emotional public to pull this successfully and without the public catching on to it.

Racism and poverty.

This one too has the same fingerprint attached to it..guilt...labeling...etc. Tremendous political clout has been done here to keep the public responding to the latest guilt templates in the news and information outlets shilling for the latest political line.
I heard a politician just yesterday using the same olde talking points one has heard for over 20 years..guilt programming. Just like the gay issues.. Just like the Tax breaks for the rich issues.
You begin to suspect that this one like others must never die or be solved...there is to much industry attached to it that it must be promoted on the public purse.
This one may backfire and become obvious as new victims..illegal aliens become in conflict with the current "Victims " for scarce government resources for votes and power. Then it will be obvious to some how much of a shakedown this has become. Government will be forced by events to change/add "Victims" for scarce resources.

Keep an eye on this one.


Sexism.

This one too has the fingerprints of a Victim class which must be protected by the public purse and legislation. Also heavily uses/misuses the "Victim Dictum" and labeling.

All of these groups use labeling and guilt techniques on the public to steer them to their positions or unto silence.

All of them are moving into the public purse in social issues and legislation.
All of them have this common fingerprint/fingerprints. Victim Dictum, labeling, the public purse, and politics.

When you see enough of this...you begin to sense that the same common group is running all of them behind the scenes and for some purpose not directly related to the pubic felicity.

And now all of these have moved into the military for social purposes..not the purposes of the military or military disciplines.

Be very careful and perceptive about labeling techniques and the direction they go..particularly when taken over by the body politic. And the body politic ..finances public education as well as the media who shill for politics and political parties..
This should also be a warning flag when you see Hollywood so far up the backsides of politics..as well as vice versa.

It starts with labeling and emotions.
What I have determined is that these emotions and labeling techniques..for now are being used/misused to divide a nation and peoples..not to unite them. And I believe it is being done deliberately and for a purpose.
It is now being used/misused to further divide our military unto ineffectiveness.

Bewarned.

Ausar,


the repeal of dont ask dont tell is an attack at americas military. in the army when i trained there were certain values that were expressed that do not coincide with homosexuality.


I dont believe this. I think it is an attack on America itself. The military is only a medium to get this into place across the nation.

Many of this type of "Feel good and guilt politics/ sensitivity" is already in place in Iraq and Afganistan and causing much uneeded and unecessary casualties among our troops. This is why I think that much of this sensitivity and feel goodism is going to hurt the military and its mission,...supplanting the mission with social requirements. It will in the end..damage morale..which I believe is its intent. If it breaks the military it will help to break America which I think is the goal.

Thanks,
Orangetom
edit on 7-1-2011 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999

LOL LOL In likeness to Annee and others...this goes over your head. I am referring to the standard M1A predictable format of calling others homophobe, haters, and bigot to seemingly strengthen your posts.


Nothing is going over my head.

Not agreeing with you - is not missing your point.

Not agreeing with you - does not mean I use the labels/descriptives you want to assign.

Ever heard of the word "succinct"?



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by 27jd
 

You're wanting ME to carry rubber gloves in case some gay gets shot?

I'm not going to carry **** just to accommodate someone who's "special."

Yes, the military tests blood. Tell us how often.

You made the point - tell us per regulation and actual practice just how often men in the military have their blood tested.

That's the dumbest answer I've ever heard to justify this madness.

I'm not carrying gloves, I'm not going to attend sensitivity focus groups, I'm not going to listen and change my combat behavior.

A known gay gets shredded and is bleeding - he can bleed out or fix himself, because I'm not getting near that crap.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by 27jd
 

A known gay gets shredded and is bleeding - he can bleed out or fix himself, because I'm not getting near that crap.


...the counter hypothetical situation is - if its you laying there shredded and bleeding, you're going to refuse assistance from a homosexual... while it would be karmic justice if that happened to you and the homosexual was as hateful as you are - that wont happen... if you find yourself in that situation, i suspect you wont care who helps you - but - on the off chance that your hatred runs THAT deep, whoever does assist you will not be listening to your homophobic protests... they'll be trying to save your life...



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by Dennislp3
I don't disagree with you in many ways but I also wonder if you are using simply reverting to circular logic.


...an improperly worded but very transparent mista nice nasty way of calling my statement bs...



Originally posted by Dennislp3
Perhaps you could provide a few more specific examples? Something to show that drastic measures to ensure "acceptance" has been used perhaps?


...the usofa has a long history of criminalizing as well as demonizing non-heterosexual and non-monogamous lifestyles... if you are truly unaware of that reality, research the subject online or go to a library...



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
I agree about sensitivity training, that shouldn't be mandated, just tell everybody to mind their business and be professionals.


...not everyone in the military is capable of minding their own biz or maintaining professionalism... so, sensitivity training is required...


Originally posted by 27jd
every able bodied, law abiding American should have the right to without the fear of losing their job should their sexuality ever come to light.


...agreed and will add that when you join the military, you abide by their standards (including new ones) and if you cant abide by a standard (or an order), there are protocols already in place that direct how you will respond... none of those protocols guarantee that your refusal to abide by the standards or orders will result in no penalty...

...the officer in the op's link wants his retirement benefits to be unaffected even though he doesnt want to follow orders... giving into his ultimatum is the same as allowing the troops to be in charge of military standards, which will never happen...


Originally posted by 27jd
If somebody is obnoxious, and harasses others, then they should be disciplined, regardless of their sexuality.


...yep...



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Very good post. I do think DADT should have been lifted, but I fear that many come to the right conclusion for the wrong reasons so to speak, although I sure that number is less that what my ego tells me, he he. The people who do this stuff are just keenly aware of aspects of their own and mass psychology. Most are followers. The solution? If you are a leader, stand up to the plate. Don't brow beat people or anything. Just be your very own confident self, and people naturally seek out info from you. Unfortunately, this is the way it is. "Leaders" tend to either lead people astray for their own selfish angles, or they do what they believe to be right. Our choice.

Edit: I will also add, that even though the straight path to truth is through reason, marginalized groups tend to almost immediately be ignored. They have little to no choice but to engage in subversive tactics, as tunnel vision cannot be exposed by logic alone. I do not fault them for this.
edit on 7-1-2011 by orwellianunenlightenment because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by FarArcher
A known gay gets shredded and is bleeding - he can bleed out or fix himself, because I'm not getting near that crap.


Near what crap? As I said before, you shouldn't be exposing yourself to anybody's blood if you have an open wound and you're not certain of the other party's sexual, hygenic, or possible drug habits. Once again, being straight, we're also at risk of contracting HIV during unprotected sex. Military folks spend alot of time in 3rd world countries, where HIV is much more prevelant. You probably don't know for sure who's been sleeping with the local ladies, and who hasn't.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by 27jd
 

I was in SF, and I guarantee you, we knew each other's habits, likes, dislikes, and we knew which ones more likely would go for the cheap stuff and possibly be infected with the clap or syph.

You can take a few shots for that, by the way.

That HIV/AIDS stuff? That's a whole 'nother critter.

A lot of combat men will NOT be happy, will NOT be understanding, will NOT be cooperative in welcoming known gays, and will NOT be handling their bloody bodies.

Watch and see.

Put them in data processing.

Not combat units!



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by FarArcher
I was in SF, and I guarantee you, we knew each other's habits, likes, dislikes, and we knew which ones more likely would go for the cheap stuff and possibly be infected with the clap or syph.


Anybody who goes for the cheap stuff, especially in poor countries, has a good chance to be exposed to HIV as well as the clap and syph. Why are you completely overlooking that solid fact? Many, many straight people are infected with HIV, it's not just gay people that get it. It all comes down to personal risk taking more than sexuality. You could have a gay person who takes precautions, and a straight person who throws it into anything female that gives him the time of day, who's blood would you be more comfortable with? Also, you may know alot about the men in your unit, but with DADT, being gay is one thing they probably wouldn't admit to you, since that could lead to the loss of their career. If you're saying all the men in your unit, spent all their downtime together, I'd have to call BS. If you're truly concerned with HIV infected blood, DADT should have been your nightmare. An atmosphere where gays are mandated to hide their sexuality, you would have no idea how much "gay blood" you would be in contact with.

And I'm still perplexed...why, when fighting war and running a high chance of coming into contact morbid injuries with blood regularly, would you not have a pair of latex gloves in your gear bag? They aren't bulky or expensive. All medical professionals throw gloves on when contacting any blood. Regardless how sure you think you are, you never really know everything about people.

Nothing is really going to change, IMO, except gay people can't be fired if they were to admit it. But I don't think gays are likely to reach out to the straight men in their units for some kind of acceptance or emotional support. I'm sure they're aware that there are still many like yourself who would not want to fight beside them, and not help them if they're injured. The feminine, over the top gay men are not going to be voluntarily joining a combat unit anyway, so this idea of a bunch of hair stylists with pink fatigues pinching your @ss and spraying AIDS blood all over you is all in your head. Most will still probably keep it a secret. So, if you're still active, so get yourself SOME GLOVES!!
edit on 8-1-2011 by 27jd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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-double post-
edit on 8-1-2011 by DenyIdiocy4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Did you people whine about how homophobia is bad before Obama was elected?



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by 27jd
 

You won't believe the blood spatter and spray that usually occurs when someone gets shot.

That's the very first point. No one in combat is going to want a twinkie among them if for no other reason, than the very strong potential for blood spray and spatter.

I've had brains and blood dripping off me, and there's no damned pair of gloves going to handle it, so your postulations are based on a complete lack of knowledge whereof I speak.

I've had to scoop up about fifteen or twenty feet of intestines, take off his shirt, put his guts in the shirt, and tie the arms around his back, and helped him walk out, keeping everything nice and wet with a canteen.

The reason? Every second counted and people were shooting.

There is this unbelievable demand on your time in a shootout. No one is going to take time to pull on latex gloves over their sweaty hands, tugging and pulling, just to help someone you really didn't want there to start with, someone whose blood stands a significantly HIGHER possibility of AIDS/HIV, and who may have already pissed you off if you got spattered/sprayed with his blood, in which case, you may not be pulling for him to live.

Gloves.

BS.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by orangetom1999

LOL LOL In likeness to Annee and others...this goes over your head. I am referring to the standard M1A predictable format of calling others homophobe, haters, and bigot to seemingly strengthen your posts.


Nothing is going over my head.

Not agreeing with you - is not missing your point.

Not agreeing with you - does not mean I use the labels/descriptives you want to assign.

Ever heard of the word "succinct"?



Annee,

You are using the standard M1A political/Social labeling techniques as well as are others on this topic...it gets predictable after seeing so much of it.

And it is succinctly clear that this is transpiring.

You are most certainly allowed to disagree..I merely make note of the technique..and not for you ..but for others out here whom may not have caught on to it.

I did the same thing here in this post earlier today..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In case you don't understand it...it is called Pattern Recognition. One learns to recognize the pattern of an operation going on. There are peoples out here who need to learn to recognize the pattern of things around them and learn to cut the control strings. To do this..they also need to learn to think outside the box and let go of all the emotions. Emotions are textbook of the control technique followed by Guilt Control methods.
And this too is what is happening in this thread.

orwellianunenlightenment,

I on the other hand ..do not think DADT should have been repealed.

I think this is nothing more than a payoff for votes in previous and up and coming elections. It is an investment for and by the body politic with close elections in mind. These votes can make all the difference...in close elections.

Someone for a number of years has been carefully organizing and catering to every minority group who can be labeled and controlled with Guilt Techniques and the "Victim Dictum" template in mind and at the same time putting them on the public purse....for votes. This process continues to this day.

It is the selling, bartering, and trading of the very soul of a nation in order to keep and maintain power/lucre...very similar to what Ancient Rome was doing to their peoples and nation.
Or could it be that Ancient Rome survives to this day..only changing form..on the outside??

Ones sexuality is a private concern..not a public concern and should not be used to identify who or what someone is.

People are identified by

Lineage
Occupation/Occupations
Some great work they have done and left to posterity.

Not by sex or sexuality/sexual orientation. You have to go to public school and get a movie/television education to get this dumb. Ordinary individual thinking peoples, left to their own devices, are smarter than to follow this template. They simply know better.

But public education standards..ie..a movie/television education majoring in emotions insures that peoples cannot think this far as to recognize a pattern in operation.
And who pays for pubic education...the body politic.


FarArcher,

I agree with your reasoning and understand it in spite of the emotions you put in your post. I recognize the experience out in the field of which you express.

It is the same with the Submarine crews with whom I have worked as a mechanic in a local shipyard. A small cloistered environment. They want to work with peoples for whom the confidence is high..not with a social program defaulted over and onto them.

I am also aware that AIDS is not confined to the gay community but heteros as well.

Nonetheless ...this is a complication for social purposes which is being foisted off on the military and for the reasons I outlined to orwellianenlightment above.
The prime function of the military is not social in this manner. It becomes obvious that much of our leadership has, for several administrations, been ignorant of this concept.

Thanks,
Orangetom


edit on 9-1-2011 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by Dennislp3
I don't disagree with you in many ways but I also wonder if you are using simply reverting to circular logic.


...an improperly worded but very transparent mista nice nasty way of calling my statement bs...



Originally posted by Dennislp3
Perhaps you could provide a few more specific examples? Something to show that drastic measures to ensure "acceptance" has been used perhaps?


...the usofa has a long history of criminalizing as well as demonizing non-heterosexual and non-monogamous lifestyles... if you are truly unaware of that reality, research the subject online or go to a library...




Some of us here Wyn Hawks..do not find this Amusing.

A.. without
Muse...thinking.

Without Thinking...Amuse..something fed to us to prevent thinking




Non monogamous lifestyles....

Non monogamous lifestyles.

Am I to understand that you are promoting non monogamous lifestyles here???

I am given to wonder if anyone else on this thread caught it as well as what it implies beyond the emotional default settings being used here ???

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...the usofa has a long history of criminalizing as well as demonizing non-heterosexual and non-monogamous lifestyles... if you are truly unaware of that reality, research the subject online or go to a library...



Originally posted by orangetom1999
Some of us here Wyn Hawks..do not find this Amusing.


...who are the "us" you're referring to?...
...are you in the habit of speaking for them?...
...are they unable to speak for themselves?...
...are you the only one that hears them?...


Originally posted by orangetom1999
A.. without
Muse...thinking.
Without Thinking...Amuse..something fed to us to prevent thinking


...creating self-serving definitions...


Originally posted by orangetom1999
Non monogamous lifestyles....
Non monogamous lifestyles.


...repetitive speech dysfunction...

en.wikipedia.org...

Palilalia is the repetition or echoing of one's own spoken words. It can be a complex tic, like echolalia and coprolalia and may sound like stuttering; all can be symptoms of Tourette syndrome or autism. Palilalia can also occur in neurological sydromes, such as stroke or epilepsy.



Originally posted by orangetom1999
Am I to understand that you are promoting non monogamous lifestyles here???


...go back a page or two and TRY to follow the conversation...


Originally posted by orangetom1999
I am given to wonder if anyone else on this thread caught it as well as what it implies beyond the emotional default settings being used here ???


...speaking for imaginary friends + flowery language + creating self-serving definitions + repetitive spech + inability or refusal to accept documented historical legalities (reality) = time to seek professional intervention, tom, and good luck with that, seriously...



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by Wyn Hawks
 

Karma, you're telling me to consider my "Karma?"

I don't give a five-gallon bucket of **** about "Karma."

And you really should come up with another term.

"Homophobic?"

Homo is the genus of modern man.

Phobic indicates a fear of.

How in hell does homophobic have anything to do with twinkies?

Since I carry a weapon everywhere, why would I fear modern man?

That's another thing I find irritating. Misappropriation and misapplication of terminology.

Got another term?



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by FarArcher
 


Well, I've seen severe traumatic injuries, so I do believe the blood. But your hands will still be the main points of contact with any injured person you're trying to help, and in contact with the most blood. Any blood that splatters on you would have to splatter onto an open, sucking wound of yours in order for you to contract anything, and those chances are slim. Probably much more slim than actually getting shot, which begs another question...why would somebody who puts themselves in front of incoming artillery fire be so concerned about the very slim chance of contracting a virus from another soldier's blood? Either way, it's your choice about the gloves, I was just making a friendly suggestion.

And again I wish to point out, under DADT, there were still gay people in the military spraying blood on others, blood doesn't care who admits what.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 11:21 PM
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Retired Military Officer Here…

1) All Officers, except for those with an Active duty Service Obligation, mostly new Lt’s and other officers after a recent school or promotion are able to tender their resignation at any time.

2) I personally was mostly in Special Forces but did serve some time in MI and can tell you there is a vast difference between the attitude of combat arms and combat/service support soldiers.

3) I personally could give a crap what one likes to do with their body after duty, unless it’s a crime like beat your wife or go after kids. That said, you can’t accuse an officer of being a poor leader and other comments like I have seen in this thread if you drastically change the rules of the organization to which he has sworn his oath.

4) I would recommend there be a period; and likely there will be anyway (probably with negative consequences) in which officers and even soldiers who now have serious reservations about the new policy to request to leave the service. I mean up until now they have served honorably and now all of the sudden the rules have changed. Seems fair.

5) This is why while the lifting of the policy which was likely the right decision was simply executed at a poor time. It will have a negative effect on morale and unit effectiveness in a time of war.

6) You can expect to shove the new system down people’s thoughts and all the sudden expect them to embrace the change if they have some serious moral reservations about it.

7) It would be like all the sudden taking away the conscientious objector status and then court marshaling them all for failing to shoot at the enemy. They enlisted under one rule now all the sudden it is different.

Again, I had some soldiers in MI who were gay, one female NCO (a counterintelligence agent and platoon sergeant) was perhaps the best NCO I ever had even out of the SF guys. She never made it an issue, no statements, no acts, no marriage; however, we all suspected.

In conclusion, right idea, wrong, timing and method of implementation. Could have gone gradual like with segregation starting with support units etc., rather than the – “here we are, suck it or lose your career” approach which is basically to some akin to raping their military. Gradual change would have worked.

So basically to make 4% of the Solider population happy we risk a negative effect on unit the other 50% who might have some real issues with it.

Commanders will be now caught up in being the PC police and have less time to concentrate on what is important – mission accomplishment.

Glad I don’t have to Command in this environment.





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