"I have gay friends, but..." Umm... No, you don't...

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by Annee
I'll help you narrow it down. List 3.

Why?

Here's tons of laws relating just to divorce, they vary from state to state of course.

www.divorcesource.com...

Originally posted by Annee
Its an issue for anyone who feels the government regulates them. It is not a gay issue.

Who said it was a "gay issue" whatever that means? I said many gay people are opposed to same-sex marraige.

Uh huh.

Now its about divorce?

Way to back peddle.

Originally posted by Annee
Now its about divorce?

Way to back peddle.

What on earth are you talking about (just being a troll)?

If you're not married the legalities of divorce don't apply to you when you seperate (IE. when you get married you become subject to those laws, obligations etc. etc. if you ever end up seperating and, like I said, the government can CHANGE those laws long after you get married so the idea that you've "agreed to them" by getting a marraige license is absurd).

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
This just kills me. In EVERY gay themed thread, those opposed to homosexuals and/or homosexuality inevitably say something like, "I have gay friends, but...", followed by how they disagree with the gay rights movement or homosexuality in general. Well, I got news for you Skippy, if you were really a friend, you would not want that person to have fewer rights than you do, and/or have that person feel like a social outcast, and/or have anything but happiness in their lives and to be able to share that life with the person of their choice.

So the next time you feel the urge to tell us how you have gay friends right in the middle of telling us how homosexuality is wrong, unnatural or unworthy of equal rights, just remember that you are NOT the kind of friend anyone would want to have at best, and just a plain lying hypocrite at worst...

(An aquaintance is NOT the same as a friend...)

A friend does not have to agree with every single thing their friends do, either. In fact, if a friend is doing something you feel is harmful to them, and you say nothing, you aren't much of a friend, are you?

It isn't about equal rights, but about special rights. not the same thing at all. Marriage? There are many regs on that. I can't marry a close relative, or a child, or an animal. If I decided I wanted to, should the laws be changed for me? Let's be honest here.

Just because a very small percentage of the population (maybe 1%) is attracted to the same sex, that doesn't mean the laws should be changed to accommodate that. A small percentage thinks they are cool being serial killers, too; should we make that legal?

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
I can't marry a close relative, or a child, or an animal. If I decided I wanted to, should the laws be changed for me? Let's be honest here.

Oh Gawd! Not this lame ignorant rant again.

Read the entire thread and educate yourself.

Originally posted by Annee
Oh Gawd! Not this lame ignorant rant again.

Read the entire thread and educate yourself.

You are the ignorant one.

If same gender marraige is legal, two gay brothers (or straight for that matter), a father and adult Son, Uncle and adult nephew... would have to be allowed to marry.

What would be your rationale for denying it?

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by Annee
Oh Gawd! Not this lame ignorant rant again.

Read the entire thread and educate yourself.

You are the ignorant one.

If same gender marraige is legal, two gay brothers (or straight for that matter), a father and adult Son, Uncle and adult nephew... would have to be allowed to marry.

What would be your rationale for denying it?

edit on 31-1-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)

"If a man and a woman were allowed to marry, than a brother and a sister, an uncle and niece, a father and daughter... would have to be allowed to marry.

What would be your rationale for denying it?"

JaxonRoberts

Is there any way for me to give you like thousands of stars and pluses and all that doodly crap that shows I liked your post???

If not just know that, I really like your post. And I like vaginas too. So a macho hetero male in kentucky feels like you have hit the nail on the head with this post.

I have gay friends. And I treat them like friends. I'll fight for their choices as hard as I would my own. Because they deserve it, just like anyone else.

Freedom means Freedom for everybody.

This country has Satanists, Death worshippers, and true monsters, and the religious people choose, constantly, now that they can't pick on black people, they choose gay people.

It's just crazy.

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by JaxonRoberts

 

Well, what the hell, I'll entertain your rant.
I have had a gay friend or two (not now), but I do have some gay aquaintences.
You didn't ask my opinion, but by the nature of ATS, I'll give it anyway. Now, first let me say I have some knowledge of which I speak. I was sexually abused as a child and therefore had some confusion on my sexuallity while growing up.
I believe that is not natural, but a chosen life style for whatever reason. Men were designed and equipped to be with women and women so designed to be with men. There is nothing about you or me that is designed to be with our same sex. Yes, everyone can give everyone else sexual pleasure, but that also includes a dog with a willing tongue. Not trying to be ugly here just trying to make a point.
Regardless if one holds Christian beliefs, evolution, Muslim, Buddist, or whatever, it simply is not natural, nor was it meant to be, therefore it is a choice.
While I'm here, I might as well give my opinion on the repeal of "don;t ask, don't tell". Should gays be allowed in the military? Sure, why not? They're in every other facet of society. Should they be allowed to shower and share a barracks with non gay members? Absolutely not. No more than a straight female wants to shower with straight males does a straight male want a gay male in the shower with him nor in the bunk beside him. I don't know, but I would think that a straight female would feel the same way.
As you are tired of people responding to threads regarding gays as they do, I'm tired of people pussyfooting around about the issue and pretending that gays are as natural as the sun rising in the morning. It's not, it's unnatural and it is an individual choice each one makes. Period.
Now I'm going to put on my flame retardent suit over my body armour and wait for replies.

Actually you just said what many people dont have the gut's to, or are too concerned about being politically correct or like to go with the most popular opinion in the room or thread for that matter.now take a bow.

reply to post by SevenBeans


Indeed. Just abolish legal marriage already, so we can have this non-issue solved once and for all.

Originally posted by infojunkie2
Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by JaxonRoberts

 

I'm tired of people pussyfooting around about the issue and pretending that gays are as natural as the sun rising in the morning. It's not, it's unnatural and it is an individual choice each one makes. Period.
Now I'm going to put on my flame retardent suit over my body armour and wait for replies.

Originally posted by seeashrinkActually you just said what many people dont have the gut's to, or are too concerned about being politically correct or like to go with the most popular opinion in the room or thread for that matter.now take a bow.

Big 'ol X. Wrong-o. And there's no "pretending" about anything here. Homosexuality has been scientifically observed in nature. It has been studied in animals extensively. It has been shown to be very common existing in well over 1500 animal species. It has been shown to have evolutionary purpose that helps species to thrive. In nature, it is not a "fluke" or "freak" occurrence, in some species animals that prefer homosexual sex are just as common or even more common than animals that engage in heterosexual sex. In some species homosexual pairs mate for life and raise young together, in other species they do it for pleasure/socialization. Point being, you cannot say that "homosexuality is unnatural" because this would be factually incorrect, a lie. It is like saying "the earth is flat" or "oranges are blue". It's just not true. You of course are entitled to your own opinion as everyone is, however as the saying goes, "you are not entitled to your own facts"...thus you cannot pass off a statement like "homosexuality is unnatural" as if it is "opinion". It is not "opinion" but rather "false", "not true", "incorrect", "factually inaccurate", etc. whatever debate some people might *think* exists, has already been scientifically settled. There is no debate. Homosexuality is common and widespread in nature, hence natural. And just so we are clear, "natural: nat·u·ral (n ch r- l, n ch r l). adj. Present in or produced by nature. 2. Of, relating to, or concerning nature"...Also I have had some people throw back at me this idea that "just because animals do it doesn't mean we should", when I point out that homosexuality is natural/occurs in nature. This is not even an "argument", it is flawed logic at best. Of course humans should not do everything an animal does "just because animals do it too" however, just because an animal does it doesn't necessarily mean humans shouldn't do it either. There are many things that animals do that humans have in common, and vice versa, there are things that animals do that humans don't and shouldn't do. However, this is not the point. The point is homosexuality is natural, and thus those people who make arguments like "homosexuality is unnatural therefor gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, raise kids, etc." are just straight up ignorant or lying about the facts. Hope that is clear...and for further clarification, I offer an ample about of scientific evidence, research and links below.

------------
A general overview:

Homosexual behavior in animals refers to the documented evidence of homosexual and bisexual behavior in animals...Such behaviors include sex, courtship, affection, pair bonding, and parenting among same sex animals. A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in close to 1,500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them.[1][2] Animal sexual behavior takes many different forms, even within the same species. The motivations for and implications of these behaviors have yet to be fully understood, since most species have yet to be fully studied.[3] According to Bagemihl, "the animal kingdom [does] it with much greater sexual diversity — including homosexual, bisexual and nonreproductive sex — than the scientific community and society at large have previously been willing to accept."[4] Current research indicates that various forms of same-sex sexual behavior are found throughout the animal kingdom.[5] A new review made in 2009 of existing research showed that same-sex behavior is a nearly universal phenomenon in the animal kingdom, common across species.

en.wikipedia.org...

Homosexual behavior has been documented in well over 1500 animal species and is well studied in 500 of them and is though, as mentioned above, to be "nearly universal" in the animal kingdom, "common across species":
en.wikipedia.org...

Evolutionary Benefits:

Important new evidence on a plausible mechanism for the evolution of "gay genes" has emerged from the work of Camperio-Ciani.[23] They found in two large, independent studies that the female relatives of homosexual men tended to have significantly more offspring than those of the heterosexual men. Female relatives of the homosexual men on their mother's side tended to have more offspring than those on the father's side. This indicates that females carrying a putative "gay genes" complex are more fecund than women lacking this complex of genes, and thereby can compensate for any decreased fertility of the males carrying the genes. This is a well known phenomenon in evolution known as "sexual antagonism,"[citation needed] and has been widely documented for many traits that are advantageous in one sex but not in the other.[citation needed] This provides solid experimental evidence of how "gay genes" could not only survive but thrive over the course of evolution.

Source

An exhibit in an Oslo museum called "Against Nature" took on the claim that "homosexuality is unnatural" and scientifically shows this claim to be wrong. The exhibit also notes that homosexuality in animals is neither some "fluke" or "freak" occurrence, that there is a wide variety of behavior and motivations, some same sex animal couple rear young together (for example by "adopting" young whose parents have died, or were separated from each other, or have rejected them), some animal couples are monogamous for life, some do it for pleasure, some for social bonding reasons, among a wide variety of other reasons.
www.nhm.uio.no...
www.nhm.uio.no...

A National Geographic article says that nearly 75% of bonobo sex is non-reproductive, and all engage in homosexual behavior, making them a bisexual society.
news.nationalgeographic.com...

This article notes another fully bisexual animal society, dwarf chimpanzees. Also talks about some bird species, like black-headed gulls, where 1 in 10 couples are same sex that pair for life and will "adopt" and raise young together.

Animals that live a completely homosexual life can also be found. This occurs especially among birds that will pair with one partner for life, which is the case with geese and ducks. Four to five percent of the couples are homosexual. Single females will lay eggs in a homosexual pair's nest. It has been observced that the homosexual couple are often better at raising the young than heterosexual couples.

www.news-medical.net...

A study of sexuality in rams, notes that 8% of male rams prefer same sex partners, also notes anatomical differences in neuron clusters and differences in how the brain processes certain hormones in homosexual vs. heterosexual rams and states "results suggest that naturally occurring variations in sexual partner preferences may be related to differences in brain anatomy and capacity for estrogen synthesis."
endo.endojournals.org...

Article discusses a variety of species and the range of behaviors in homosexual pairs. Notes that the Guianan Cock-of-the-rock, (Rupicola rupicola) almost 40% of the males are homosexual (although a small % of this group will mate with females, making some bisexual) also 25% of Australian black swans are homosexual couples and that they will either steal eggs or a female will lay eggs in their nest for them, which the homosexual couple then raise together. Also, homosexual sex is more common than heterosexual sex in the American bison...article also talks about macaques, bonobos, giraffes, and a few others.
news.softpedia.com...

On Albatrosses

A recent paper by Young and colleagues documents long-term female pairs in >30% of Laysan albatross on the Hawaiian island of Oahu. The unrelated females bred successfully, challenging ideas about cooperative breeding, alternative reproductive strategies and perhaps even the evolution of sexual orientation.

www.cell.com...

And another paper by the same researcher focusing on same sex behavior in animals and evolution and how homosexuality has many evolutionary advantages that have been observed that help the species to thrive:
www.cell.com...

The same researchers found that homosexual behavior was "nearly universal" across animal species, meaning that examples can be found in just about every species observed in nature.
www.sciencedaily.com...

And finally a couple books on the subject:

"Evolution's rainbow: diversity, gender, and sexuality in nature and people"
books.google.com...=onepage&q&f=false

"Homosexual behaviour in animals: an evolutionary perspective"
books.google.com...=onepage&q&f=false

"Biological exuberance: animal homosexuality and natural diversity"
books.google.com...=onepage&q&f=false
----------------------------------------

reply to post by meeneecat

Well, contrary to popular belief, I am not an animal. And yes, you did make a distinction in your post and I appreciate that. So, as you stated in your post, what happens in the animal kingdom does not naturally translate to the human realm.
A very educated nurse explained to me that the human brain of the homosexual has an enlarged petuitary gland (I have no idea if that is spelled correctly) which lies, I believe, near the center of the brain. So at best it is a birth defect. I know that this is a hot button topic, but as a Christian I am going to stick to my guns on this. If God destroyed two cities over the matter and it is referred to an "abomination" in the book of Romans, thats good enough for me.
Seeashrink

It really annoys me when humans get all uppity about being compared to animals. What the hell do they think they are - - if not animal?

An unknown nurse claims homosexuality is because of a pituitary gland. Provide ANY legitimate researched proof.

We are ALL mutations.

Originally posted by davespanners

Originally posted by catwhoknowsplusone
reply to post by JaxonRoberts

 

Hi Jaxon,

I do not say "I have gay friends but...".

I say "I have gay friends and...".

They are some of the most entertaining people I have ever met.

They are some of the most loyal people I have ever met.

They are some of the most caring people I have ever met - caring about people, animals and the planet.

They are some of the most honest people I have ever met.

I think you might find that gay people are just as capable of being as boring, disloyal, uncaring and dishonest as anyone else.

It's not all show tunes and soft fabrics

The media tries to portray homosexuality as a happy go-lucky and fun lifestyle. I wonder who thought of connecting homosexuality to the word happy/gay. I know many homosexual people and on the outside it is all "show tunes and soft fabrics" but when you are around them alot, they are just as miserable and just as wicked as any other godless human walking the earth.

Originally posted by creatednotEvolved
The media tries to portray homosexuality as a happy go-lucky and fun lifestyle. I wonder who thought of connecting homosexuality to the word happy/gay. I know many homosexual people and on the outside it is all "show tunes and soft fabrics" but when you are around them a lot, they are just as miserable and just as wicked as any other godless human walking the earth.

The media - unfortunately - always focuses on the stereotype or sensational - - - no matter what the subject.

A group that had/has to create their own culture on the fringe of society - - - seems to always go to extremes.

Gays are not a "group think" - - - they are as diverse as everyone else - with only one thing in common. Its like saying everyone with red hair is the same.

As gays become more socially acceptable - - they also become the somewhat boring every day citizen - - just like everyone else.

In my experience - - the more wild and flamboyant are the younger teens to mid-adult. Exactly as straights.

There is no way I will start a new thread on this - but found it interesting.

EDIT: someone did www.abovetopsecret.com...

GAY CAVEMAN

The Oldest Known Gay Man?
Have Archaeologists Discovered the Oldest Known Remains of a Gay Man?

By BRIAN BRAIKER - April 7, 2011

Archaeologists in the Czech Republic have unearthed the grave of what may be the remains of the oldest known homosexual or transgender man.

The prehistoric body dates to the Copper age -- or 2900 to 2500 years ago -- and was buried in a manner that was typically reserved for women.

The male skeleton was found on its side, facing east, and was surrounded by domestic jugs, objects previously seen only in female graves. An oval, egg-shaped container, usually associated with female burials, was also found at the feet of the skeleton.

"From history and ethnology, we know that people from this period took funeral rites very seriously, so it is highly unlikely that this positioning was a mistake," lead archaeologist Kamila Remisova Vesinova told the U.K.'s Telegraph.

abcnews.go.com...

reply to post by Annee


Well lady, I'm not an animal, if you think that you are then thats your business. As far as the gland thing, if this is being taught to our medical personel then I would think that it would be east to find on the net. The nurse is a friend of mine that I have known for over seven years, I trust her. Do your own research.
Seeashrink

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by Annee

 

Well lady, I'm not an animal, if you think that you are then thats your business.

Then what are you?

The major difference between human animals and non-human animals is: human animals have a written language. They can record and learn from the previous generations - - which helps them evolve.

Originally posted by seeashrink
As far as the gland thing, if this is being taught to our medical personel then I would think that it would be east to find on the net.

Then find it.

You claimed it - - you prove it.

reply to post by Annee


I have a God given living, eternal soul. I have a concious given by God. I have the ability to know right from wrong and I can have a relationship with the Creator. Maybe you don't believe in God and if that is the case then the whole conversation is moot.
Seeashrink