"I have gay friends, but..." Umm... No, you don't...

It's unreal that this thread got moved to relationships forum, it belongs where it was written.

On topic: I can't believe anyone in this day and age cares in the least who anyone else chooses as a partner or who to have sex with. It's ridiculous. If you have a religious angle against homosexuality why do you not leave it to your God to sort out? Do you think any God would want you spreading hate in Their name? If you're morally or socially against it...don't look, mind your own business. How is it going to affect you in any kind of way if two people of the same sex get married, have children or any other right straight humans have? Grow up. When are we going to learn to stop denying ANYONE the same rights we are all entitled to and to simply ignore that which we cannot accept for whatever stupid reason?

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by Annee

 

I have a God given living, eternal soul. I have a concious given by God. I have the ability to know right from wrong and I can have a relationship with the Creator. Maybe you don't believe in God and if that is the case then the whole conversation is moot.
Seeashrink

Whatever.

Biologically you are animal. Biologically animals and humans both have God given genetic make-ups - - - including attraction to same sex.

As far as being abnormal because they may have a larger pituitary gland - - - we are all mutations in one way or another.

Let's see - - if you have curly hair - your hair shaft is flat. If you have straight hair - your hair shaft is round.

Oh and someone posted homosexuals are not normal because they are only 10% of the population.

Redheads are only about 7% of the population.

It's unreal that this thread got moved to relationships forum, it belongs where it was written.

On topic: I can't believe anyone in this day and age cares in the least who anyone else chooses as a partner or who to have sex with. It's ridiculous. If you have a religious angle against homosexuality why do you not leave it to your God to sort out? Do you think any God would want you spreading hate in Their name? If you're morally or socially against it...don't look, mind your own business. How is it going to affect you in any kind of way if two people of the same sex get married, have children or any other right straight humans have? Grow up. When are we going to learn to stop denying ANYONE the same rights we are all entitled to and to simply ignore that which we cannot accept for whatever stupid reason?

Those with a religious mandate are simply looking at it as a "I'm right, all others are wrong" kind of thing. They honestly believe they are "protecting society" by trying to impose their own moral mandates upon everyone else. This is the hallmark of Western religions, and they view simply ignoring it as a "sin" on their part. That is why they can't just let it be. I don't agree with this outlook, but it is imperative that one understand and recognize it, if you ever want to effect change.

I'm more of a "live and let live" sort of guy, and let whatever powers that be (if there are any) sort it all out in the end. All I can do is try and live a good life, and be the best person I know how to be, treat others as I want to be treated, etc. If that alone isn't good enough for whomever is in charge, then so be it...I'm not looking to live a life of servitude to some concocted beliefs systems just because others believe it to be so.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
I can't marry a close relative, or a child, or an animal. If I decided I wanted to, should the laws be changed for me? Let's be honest here.

Oh Gawd! Not this lame ignorant rant again.

Read the entire thread and educate yourself.

I am not reading 60+ pages of ranting by people that want special rights for certain groups, based on their behavior. Don't need more "education" as you put it. really, more social brainwashing. The fact is, people that choose to practice sex with those of the same gender think the world should change for them, and that's simply wrong. Instead of simply doing what they choose, and being happy with that, they want to change laws, and the very definition of one of the building blocks of any stable society. Read something that isn't all pro-gay-rights, and educate yourself.

Originally posted by Annee
*snip*
Oh and someone posted homosexuals are not normal because they are only 10% of the population.
*snip*

Try something between half a percent and 3 percent, tops. That ten percent thing is, and has always been, a myth. Sheesh, everyone knows that.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


There is no asking for special rights. It is asking for equal rights. That is all. Never anything more! That is the most pervasive myth of them all.

Up until 2002/2003 there were still sodomy laws (and sodomy in law is defined as oral and/or anal sex) in over 36 states against it. There is a lifetime ban on men who have had sex with other men from ever donating blood no matter how clean it is. It was perfectly acceptable for the military to openly discriminate against homosexuals with the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, and only 21 states have included sexual identity/orientation into existing discrimination laws. There are many states where bullying based on someone's sexual orientation is not an area faculty or administration can intervene and it results in many suicides.

To ignore the issue is to cause harm to members of your community, many people whom you probably don't even realize are members of the gay community because despite what people think not every lesbian is butch and not every gay man is flamboyant. And if they are, who cares? There are people who hate overly feminine women or masculine men.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Annee
*snip*
Oh and someone posted homosexuals are not normal because they are only 10% of the population.
*snip*

Try something between half a percent and 3 percent, tops. That ten percent thing is, and has always been, a myth. Sheesh, everyone knows that.

Uh huh. Most likely it is a lot higher.

DP

"most expert estimates place America's homosexual population at 10% or less"

Gallup Poll: www.gallup.com...

reply to post by Dendro


It is asking for special rights. As I already stated, people cannot marry anyone and everyone they choose. We all have restrictions on that. Lift one, you have to lift them all. Marriage is a foundation block of society, and redefining it would threaten the stability of the society. History shows that this is true; every place where moral decline is embraced, that society falls. That nation falls. This is fact, provable time and time again.

The military did not discriminate with DADT; that, in fact, lessened any such thing. All people had to do was keep their personal business personal. Soldiers have very strict codes of conduct under the UCMJ, and those apply to ALL soldiers. When we were stationed in Germany, there were CID people int he clubs, watching for soldiers that would try and cheat on a spouse. And yes, they WOULD bust them for it. That isn't discrimination by any stretch of the imagination. Keep your sex life your own business, and the military didn't care.

Discrimination laws are for race, religion, and the like, not personal sexual preferences. That's a fact, and so-called "hate crimes" laws only serve to treat one victim as somehow more important than other victims of similar crimes. Bullying is wrong, no matter what the reason. Doesn't just happen to homosexuals, either, as I am sure many here can attest to. Murder is murder. Assault is assault. I don't care who the victim is, or what reason the criminal gives. A crime is a crime. No special rank to certain victims. Not to mention, a lot of the "stats" we are given about teens and this issue are not even accurate. I have seen evidence of studies that ignored and flat out misstated the results, to fit their personal bias.

I have, in fact, had gay friends. Some on my FB now, that are out of town, but still call them friends. I don't have to approve of everything a friend does, to be a friend. That goes for this particular behavior, or cheating on a spouse, or drug use, etc. It's a far cry from not approving of a certain behavior to hate. Yet many can't accept that people don't hate them, simply for not agreeing with them. Maybe they are seeing a reflection of their own hatred?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Annee
*snip*
Oh and someone posted homosexuals are not normal because they are only 10% of the population.
*snip*

Try something between half a percent and 3 percent, tops. That ten percent thing is, and has always been, a myth. Sheesh, everyone knows that.

Uh huh. Most likely it is a lot higher.

Not according to ANY factual data. Very small numbers.

Legal marriage needs to be abolished. That would solve this non-issue once and for all. There is no need to regulate love or personal relationships between people by state. That said..

Discrimination laws are for race, religion, and the like, not personal sexual preferences.

No, discrimination laws are also for sexual prefference. Why should it be any different than race or religion?

I can't marry a close relative, or a child, or an animal. If I decided I wanted to, should the laws be changed for me? Let's be honest here.

You cannot marry a child or an animal because they cannot give informed consent. They also cannot enter into other legal contracts,

You cannot marry a close relative because there is an increased risk of genetic damage to the child from such relationship.

There is no such reason to deny homosexuals their legal marriage.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


It is not a matter of marrying “anyone and everyone they choose” but the legal right to marry the person that they love. Nothing more. Nothing less. A legal and ceremonial joining of two consenting adult that vow to love each other until death do them part.

“We all have restrictions on that. Lift one, you have to lift them all.” At one point interracial marriages were illegal. Changes can be made to the definition of marriage without compromising the standards of society.

Some Canadian provinces have been offering same sex marriages since 2003 and it was nationally legalized in 2005. 6 years later the Canadians are fine. So are the other countries that have allowed same sex marriages. There societies have not fallen or suddenly turned perverse. Everything is fine, the sky did not fall, and existing marriages weren’t affected or made null.

No, DADT did discriminate because it only protected discrimination against closeted homosexuals. It was perfectly legal and acceptable to deny someone the right to serve their country based on their sexuality alone. THAT is what DADT is about and why it has been recently repealed. If it really was protecting soldiers there wouldn’t have been a need to remove it.

Hate crimes aren’t mythical. They exist. Attacks do happen based purely on a person’s association with a certain social grouping and the attacker is motivated by their own hatred/repulsion/ignorance. Members of the gay community DO have to worry about walking down the street holding hands with their loved one because that display alone is enough to provoke someone into verbally or physically assaulting them. There isn’t special consideration to the victim. Instead the emphasis is on the perpetrator with frightening motivations to attack people... and what is to stop them from doing it again? The only way to definitively send the message to people that it is not okay to accost people is to make laws against it.

I offer the same challenge that many others have. Direct your “gay” friends to this website, to this thread and any thread that you have made comments about the gay community, and have them read your comments. I would be surprised to find any of them still on your FB afterwards.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Annee
Uh huh. Most likely it is a lot higher.

Not according to ANY factual data. Very small numbers.

I posted the data from the Gallup Poll - - did you read it?

In posts I use the 10% because that is the accepted official expert percentage.

It is my personal opinion - - and just an opinion - - that it is most likely higher because many gays are still not open.

Gay is now an accepted term used for both homosexual and lesbian.

homosexuality is not a choice. You can't choose what your mind finds attractive.

Some people find the color pink attractive and some people find the color blue attractive. You mind is naturally attracted to different things and builds its own preferences.


Knowing this, it is hypocritical to say that you are friends with a gay person if you don't even like who they are...

Imagine a white person having a black friend and then says, yeah I have a black friend but I don't believe that they deserve equal rights...

Originally posted by Gseven
So wait, let me get this right....

I have friends and/or family that spoil the heck out their kids, turning them into little monsters. I disagree with it, and I'll NEVER watch their kids for them, and can only take their children in small doses....but I still consider them friends.

I have friends that drive like raving lunatics on their motorcycles. I disagree with it. I think it's irresponsible.....but I still consider them friends.

I have friends that are about liberal as one can get. Can't talk politics with them, and I don't want to....but I still consider them friends.

I have friends that are about as conservative as one can get. Can't talk politics with them either, and I don't want to...but I still consider them friends.

I have friends of every religious faith you can imagine, even though I have no intentions to convert to any of them. Some things I agree with, others I don't...but I consider them friends.

I can hate the stench of war and still be an honorable veteran and love my troops and my country. It's OK to stand up and fight for something you believe in. I have friends that are anti-military, yet somehow we manage to be friends. That says a lot about both of us.

All of those things are CHOICES. Being gay is not.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by JaxonRoberts

 

I have gay friends but man are they whiny!

~Heff

As a gay man I totally resemble that remark! LOL

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by ANNED

 

Remove the religion and upbringing and you would find a complete change in the sexual orientation of most. Being Gay or Bi is where brain washing did not take. NOW SHOW PROOF my THEORY is WRONG. My guess is all your PROOF will show is that the brainwashing is real.

Here you go:

The Boy Raised as a Girl

In the 1990s, evidence accumulated that sex-stereotyped behavior might not be entirely shaped from the outside. One influential case involved a boy who was raised as a girl. It all started when doctors at Johns Hopkins Hospital accidentally damaged an infant boy's penis with a heat cauterization tool during a circumcision operation. The penis was badly burned and damaged beyond repair, so they simply removed it and told the parents to raise the child as a girl. The child took female hormone treatments to encourage normal female development. (In retrospect, all of this seems ridiculous to many psychologists, because it implies that a penis and hormones are all that distinguish a male from a female.) A well-known authority on sexual behavior, John Money of Johns Hopkins Medical Center, interviewed the child annually and wrote journal articles about the anonymous subject of this operation, reporting his "normal" development as a girl.

In reality, the boy raised as a girl had many difficulties. In 1997 he went public with his story. It turned out he had always felt like a boy on the inside. He wanted male toys and wanted to dress like a boy. He even felt it was natural to urinate standing up. By the age of 16 he had learned the truth about his situation and reverted to being a male. After years of difficulty adjusting to his situation, he tried to adjust to life as an adult male. He married to a woman whose children he adopted. However, he was bitter about the experiment conducted on him without his consent, as a child, and he frequently made public statements to the effect that his life was ruined. In the end, he committed suicide. His testimony shows that environmental influences are not the whole story. Part of sex role identity comes from the inside. For lots of details on the case, see .

A second case, similar to the "boy raised as a girl," had a similar outcome. The genetically male patient, being raised as a female, was a "tomboy" interested in male toys as a child. However, this patient accepted the female sex assignment after finding out about it during adolescence and completing reconstructive surgery, eventually marrying a man. The marriage did not work out, and the patient's second marriage was to a female, in a lesbian relationship. See . An extensive bibliography of related literature is at . The conclusion of experts in trans-gendering is that a person's inner feelings must be taken into account, and these feelings have little to do with external factors like clothing and parental influences.
www.psywww.com...
www.librarything.com...

edit on 24-12-2010 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

I enjoyed your post or reincarnation, but I dont think the poster you are responding to here said to raise one sex as the other. They just said to raise them together in a sexually neutral environment.

Good debate!

peace!

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by unityemissions

 

Eloquently said, but rediculous none the less. Starting at the end of your post, I have no doubt that many great contributors to our world and society have been gay. That has nothing to do with it. The rest of your post is gobbelygoop. Let me break it down for you. Try to keep up.
I am a man, my sex organ is a penis. So far? OK, It is a long shaft (in my case, not so much) is round and has a slight up curve to it. It is not meant for the anus. That is a poop shoot and nothing more. The woman's sex organ is a vagina....it is a hole with a cavity that has a slight up curve to it much like the penis. These two match and they were meant to. Another woman has nothing to place in the other woman's vagina. Why? Because it was not meant to be. Yes, she has a tongue but it cannot procreate, it cannot....well....you get the picture.
So, lets quit pretending that something is there when it is not. This is basic common sense that cannot be explained away as much as those that wish to be politically correct want it to be.
Yes, homosexuallity has been with us forever. So has cancer, but that doesn' make cancer acceptable.
Seeashrink

The male anus also has a prostate. It produces pleasure when stimulated much like a clitorous on a lady. Women do not have one. just something interesting to ponder.

I think what annoys me most about anti-gays is when they state that it isn't 'natural'.
...

I'm a pansexual woman. This means I am attracted to beauty regardless of gender, that I am attracted to like-minds and decent beings, and possibly gender-blind. The fact that I'm usually more attracted to men still allows me to be open to the idea of meeting a woman and not blocking off that route simply out of prejudice.

Why do you say it isn't natural?

a) Many animals do it, including the oh so masculine lion. Often, two male lions will partner up and engage in homosexual relationships and activity.

b) In the rectum of both male and female, there is a pleasure center. Why would there be a pleasure center in a man's rectum if it was 'against God's will', 'unnatural' or 'wrong'? Also, many straight men enjoly doing women in the anus, why is this so much different?

c) A lot of the arguments state that it isn't natural because two men, or two women can not procreate. So, in that sense, every time heterosexual people mate, they are intending to make babies? So I'm assuming none of you homophobes use contraception, because that would mean you aren't procreating, and thus you shouldn't have sex at all, since sex is ONLY for making children, and isn't for pleasure, release, love, fun, connection, desire or any other reason.

d) Homosexuality only became taboo with the rise of the Catholic Church, as did witch-burning, Jew/Muslim slayings, woman-hating and basically every other form of prejudice. Ancient civilizations, Greece a great example, were all pansexual people and didn't limit themselves to the love/physical pleasure of just one sex.

e) Very young children begin having homosexual/bisexual ideas/fantasies/crushes/mannerisms and only block it out due to the repression/prejudice of modern society.

To anyone still doubting that homosexuality is wrong, unnatural or immoral, research this great theory which states that the mass majority of us are actually bisexual, with absolute homosexuals on one end, and absolute heterosexuals at the other end of the scale.

If someone loves, or wishes to have sex to someone, does the gender in question really matter? As long as it is consensual, is it doing any harm?

Also, to homophobes, why is it you assume that every gay man wants to have sex with you? Why do you live in fear of that? When I look at men, only 1 in maybe 500 would I consider having sex with, (I am a woman, by the way), so what makes a gay man any different? Are yoi so high up on your horse you think everyone wants to have sex with you?

Anyways, like I said, homophobia and prejudice of any kind makes me angry.