The Muslims are not the enemy.

Originally posted by badw0lf
Off you go then, off to an Islamic nation to live in the wonderful land they offer. It's so much better, obviously.

She'd look purdy in a burkah and she would love those sweet, peace loving Muslim men lording over her with shira law.

reply to post by JR MacBeth


You are more or less right. People have always been led into hating each other. Whether it used to be hate against a nation, an ideology, a colour, or religion (today), we have always been led to hatred. But this is not the fault of politics, it is our own fault, especially with growing number of ignorant, blind, and narrow minded people who are dumber than cattle.

A few decades ago, racism against Afro-Americans was widely spread in the US, as today is racism against Islam. Without any proof and evidence the majority of the folks (which of course are ignorant) are led into believing that Islam is the devil itself because of its "laws".
*Well folks one last point I repeat, and please someone tell me if I am wrong; what about all of those genocides, murderings, rapings, and crimes against humanity going on in *Christian African nations as we SPEAK, does that make Christianity any better than YOUR portrait of Islam?

There you have your evidence, although I am not sure enough you will be able to accept the crap when its at your doorstep..

reply to post by MrAtomicspace

What bothers me is that you associate Islam with individual countries. As you say people in Saudia Arabia are very strict when it comes to foreigners, why and how do you associate that with Islam?!

You're kidding me. Sharia law is Islamic law. It is also the primary law governing many countries, including Saudi Arabia, which has one of the strictest interpretations of Sharia. Given that, how would one not associate Islam with the countries that have Sharia as their legal system?

Originally posted by peacevic
reply to post by MrAtomicspace

 

What bothers me is that you associate Islam with individual countries. As you say people in Saudia Arabia are very strict when it comes to foreigners, why and how do you associate that with Islam?!

You're kidding me. Sharia law is Islamic law. It is also the primary law governing many countries, including Saudi Arabia, which has one of the strictest interpretations of Sharia. Given that, how would one not associate Islam with the countries that have Sharia as their legal system?

Just because those nutheads (excuse me for the expression) decide to force people into strictly believe in Islam, why do I as a muslims, including millions of other muslims, have to be held responsible for them?! Islam does not force people to believe in it, infact it supports religious tolerance, and is overall as tolerant as other religions if not more.
Islam has been here for centuries, at yet it is being attacked only recentely, why is that?! If you have to judge Islam take the Ottomans as an example, why take today's extremist who have actually been supported by the US in the first place during the Coldd War... Get your facts straight before writing bs.

And I am still looking for an reply to my previous post.. But assume no one can come up with anything

reply to post by MrAtomicspace


I am not holding you personally responsible for the actions of all Muslims. I would not do that. I was simply answering your question as to why Islam was associated with countries.
As for your tolerance question - I agree that Islam has been hijacked by extremists. I think most religions are susceptible to that, which is why I'm not a fan of organized religions in general. But also on the tolerance point - I think there's hardly any question that Sharia is not as up to date on women's rights as other systems of law. Do you disagree?

reply to post by peacevic


As a muslim I am taught that everyone is equal, regardless of race, gender, class, etc.. The way that extremist countries see sharia is very wrong, and it contradicts the Qur'an by not treatring women the same as men. Now to blame Islam because a group of muslims are extremely strict I think it is not fair. Also take Turkey, Indonesia, Egypt and many other muslim countries as an example, why do they not also stone women since they are muslims? I am stressing the point that it is not Islam to blame, but the ignorant people once again.

Originally posted by GirlGenius
reply to post by JR MacBeth

 

Frankly, ALL OF US should oppose this horror, Christians, Jews, Muslims. The elite are our common enemy! If only we could see this before they put the nails in all our coffins....

Bravo! Too many are their willing servants.

spot on, they're the most brain engaged comments i've read for a while!!

the planet needs more people like you!

namaste

reply to post by FarArcher


Well if you follow politics at state level in the nation you have learn that is now communities in the US at state, city level that are majority Muslim, this communities already have political figures advocating for Muslim rights to their Islamic laws.

Soon this low city figures will be getting higher positions until they find their way in congress, by then the infiltration of Islam by state will be great and once in congress that is when the war will be in full gear and the majority in disadvantage.

Regardless of what, those preaching that Islam is peaceful have never taken the time to read Islamic laws. Islam can never coexist with none Islam followers.

According to Islam, both Jews and Christians are characterized by disobedience and by refusing to accept the Last Prophet—Muhammad. This lack of religious integrity is damning and so these dhimmis cannot express their religious beliefs without poisoning the Muslim state.

sheikyermami.com...

That is why places like UK, Australia and many other nations been infiltrated by so call "peaceful Muslim" are having so much problems, in Islamic law only one believes can be recognized and is not about to be shared by any other believes, that is Islamic law.

reply to post by MrAtomicspace


If you are muslim you "follow Islamic laws" by that you recongnize only one religion as by Islamic law, so the only tolerance allowed under Islamic laws is until the convertion of none believers.

You know is all in your laws how can you ignore this if you are muslim, and preach that you respect "other religions? is not such thing as moderate muslims because they are not recognized by Islamic states.

Islam is very deceptive but it all narrows to the willigness of the none believers to convert.

I just wish that we could take this back as a tolerant but very Christian country, as it was founded. Legal peeps welcome, just please make an attempt to assimilate ... is that asking too much? Practice your cultural/religious beliefs in your enclaves if you must, as long as you don't burden the taxpayers. Oh, and learn to speak English, for Chrissake, instead of making our schools bi-, tri-, or quatrilingual!

reply to post by MrAtomicspace

Also take Turkey, Indonesia, Egypt and many other muslim countries as an example, why do they not also stone women since they are muslims? I am stressing the point that it is not Islam to blame, but the ignorant people once again.

The countries that you listed aren’t currently completely under Sharia law (though they are moving that way). As for stoning - can you make your case without the use of extreme examples, people’s rights can still be restricted even if they aren’t stoned.

As a muslim I am taught that everyone is equal, regardless of race, gender, class, etc.. The way that extremist countries see sharia is very wrong, and it contradicts the Qur'an by not treatring women the same as men. Now to blame Islam because a group of muslims are extremely strict I think it is not fair.

I haven't blamed Islam. I blame extremism, and not just Islamic extremism, I have the same issue with Christian extremism and any other religious interpretations that get people so caught up in the "my way is the only way" mindset that they act in fanatical ways.

That said, I think organized religions, all religions - and not just the extremist parts - promote behavior that at its best is divisive and at its extreme is punitive, judgmental, and often times violent.

--- Divisive because the belief in a specific omnipotent being who punishes/rewards people who worship him causes believers to classify people into those who believe in the "right" thing and those who don't.

--- Punitive, judgmental, and violent when people decide they need to act on the perceived wishes of their omnipotent being to punish those who don't believe in the "right thing".

And there's a thin line between the best and extreme cases. Because of this leaders use religion to get people to do their dirty work, just a little twist in what the religious leaders preach can take people from merely divisive thinking to violent acts. Christianity had a time like this; I think we're seeing alot it right now, and it happens to be in the Islam area.

Originally posted by MrAtomicspace
reply to post by JR MacBeth

 

You are more or less right. People have always been led into hating each other. Whether it used to be hate against a nation, an ideology, a colour, or religion (today), we have always been led to hatred. But this is not the fault of politics, it is our own fault, especially with growing number of ignorant, blind, and narrow minded people who are dumber than cattle.

A few decades ago, racism against Afro-Americans was widely spread in the US, as today is racism against Islam. Without any proof and evidence the majority of the folks (which of course are ignorant) are led into believing that Islam is the devil itself because of its "laws".
*Well folks one last point I repeat, and please someone tell me if I am wrong; what about all of those genocides, murderings, rapings, and crimes against humanity going on in *Christian African nations as we SPEAK, does that make Christianity any better than YOUR portrait of Islam?

There you have your evidence, although I am not sure enough you will be able to accept the crap when its at your doorstep..

edit on 18-12-2010 by MrAtomicspace because: (no reason given)

Yes, very good points. In another thread I happened to mention the issue about what is far better identified as African customs and culture, than the various religions they may practice. As you point out, there are plenty of Christian people in Africa, and the record is not pretty. The Christian apologist will immediately jump up and inform us that it's NOT CHRISTIANITY that'a at fault!

And yet, the big ugly double-standard just can't be seen by these same people, who will see anything "bad" going on, and immediately cry "The evil of Islam!" As for a particular culture, or a people's traditions (good or bad), such things will be utterly ignored at their convenience.

In my case I mentioned the demographics issue in connection with crime. I was not perhaps genteel enough about it, and next thing you know someone had been terribly offended, and chose to immediately insult me as a "racist". Well, as our Muslim friends probably know, once anyone should throw certain insults out, that's it, they have succeeded in making their target into a pariah. Sadly, ATS has to answer such complaints, as long as it's about particular issues.

Now if the very same thing had happened in reference to anything (anything at all!) regarding Muslims, sadly, ATS would have looked the other way.

I see it all the time. And yet, what exactly are we talking about? It is this insidious thing called "political correctness" that was first put to good use by the Jews post WW2, and then honed into a literal weapon by the 1980's, to be used on anyone who would not tow the party line, which is fed to a population through a very plastic "culture", that is so maleable today, that it only takes one pop culture star to say something, and the entire herd follows along, pulled by the nose! Disgusting.

And "who" is using this powerful tool today, against anyone who is their current "enemy"? I would submit that it is our masters, an elite who enjoy tremendous power, and are manipulating us all. They use both carrot and stick, as they herd us all along a path of their choosing. Ingeniously, they need only control a few, because the masses are ever so willing to keep EACH OTHER in line for them. They don't even realize what they're doing. They imagine they are being "patriotic", and yet the word "idiotic" really comes to mind. And they have played right into our master's hands.

JR

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by MrAtomicspace

 

If you are muslim you "follow Islamic laws" by that you recongnize only one religion as by Islamic law, so the only tolerance allowed under Islamic laws is until the convertion of none believers.

You know is all in your laws how can you ignore this if you are muslim, and preach that you respect "other religions? is not such thing as moderate muslims because they are not recognized by Islamic states.

Islam is very deceptive but it all narrows to the willigness of the none believers to convert.

Are you saying you know more about Islam than me?! Well it is clear you don't...

Just answer my point above, regarding the African Christian countries, and stop accusing like a bigot.

reply to post by JR MacBeth


Excellent points once again, you have nailed it!
The majority think they live in democracy, it is not true because unlike in true democracy their thoughts and ideas are very narrow and limited.

Originally posted by GirlGenius
I just wish that we could take this back as a tolerant but very Christian country, as it was founded. Legal peeps welcome, just please make an attempt to assimilate ... is that asking too much? Practice your cultural/religious beliefs in your enclaves if you must, as long as you don't burden the taxpayers. Oh, and learn to speak English, for Chrissake, instead of making our schools bi-, tri-, or quatrilingual!

Is it not a very Christian country still?! The US has a very effective melting pot policy, so do not be too much concerned.

But the US has more traitors inside than it has on the outside.

reply to post by MrAtomicspace


You are right I don't because I am a women and no allowed to participate into the Islamic indoctrination of males in their temples, that is Islam law. and many others. . .

You know exactly what you have been taught, but is not for the none believers to learn about.

reply to post by MrAtomicspace

But the US has more traitors inside than it has on the outside.

SO TRUE!

If Americans could only see how absolutely true this is, they wouldn't even have time to worry about Muslims.

Oh I know, someone will now come along and try to somehow get Obama out of all this. But it is hard for people to see beyond exteriors, especially an exterior that our masters work so hard to maintain.

Who's motto was once: "By way of deception thou shalt do war."??

No worries Americans! Whoever these people are, they have conveniently changed their motto to a verse out of the bible, Proverbs 11:14: "Where there is no guidance, a nation falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety." Seems pretty tame by comparison.

Or have they really changed anything?

No, this isn't the whole story, but it might be far more productive to worry about those who's practice it is to deceive, and who's nation also can't even hide the fact that they maintain the largest foreign lobbying organization in the US.

Folks, these are things out in the open! Perhaps Muslims will one day prove to be a bigger threat, but why worry about them so much now, when we've already got huge elephants in the living room?

JR

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by MrAtomicspace

 

You are right I don't because I am a women and no allowed to participate into the Islamic indoctrination of males in their temples, that is Islam law.

and many others. . .

You know exactly what you have been taught, but is not for the none believers to learn about.

Please answer this:

what about all of those genocides, murderings, rapings, and crimes against humanity going on in *Christian African nations as we SPEAK, does that make Christianity any better than YOUR portrait of Islam?

reply to post by MrAtomicspace


My friend, is not Christianity what is been debated here, is Muslims are not the enemy, Christianity has metamorphosed into what is right now after hundreds of years been the dominant religion, when it got too big for its own good it branched on what is today.

Islam is heading the same path eventually but it may take more hundreds of years, death and destruction before it happens.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by MrAtomicspace

 

My friend, is not Christianity what is been debated here, is Muslims are not the enemy, Christianity has metamorphosed into what is right now after hundreds of years been the dominant religion, when it got too big for its own good it branched on what is today.

Islam is heading the same path eventually but it may take more hundreds of years, death and destruction before it happens.

You are wrong. I am just comparing between the two, and asking you what is the difference? Should I also hate on Christianity because of what is happening in Africa, as you do on Islam based on what is happening in the middle east?!
Just accept it, you are wrong, can't argue against that..