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Why do Americans need guns? Rip UP the Second Amendment, problem solved.

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posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by sasquatch5100
 




We have the right to keep and bear arms regardless if the 2nd amendment says so or not.


Absolutely true.

This very specific "right" regarding guns, is simply the logical extension of the universal presumption that every person has a "right" to defend themselves.

People get caught up in rhetoric, political madness, various memes, and yet the basics are rather simple.

If a person attacks you, let's say with their fists, do you not have the right to fight back?

What if they pick up a rock, or a stick?

Of course, perhaps you are not very physical, or are old, or infirm...

Self defense should not be controversial, and a gun is simply a more "advanced" tool, better than a rock or a stick, but rather handy, especially if most aggressors have been blessed with physical strength beyond yours.

Another way we could put it is that people who are in favor of gun control, believe that might makes right. How so? Well, by depriving people of a particular means of defense, they have logically sided with those powerful enough to not even need such a means. Think about it!

By extension, this would lead all the way back to the government, who perhaps is supposed to protect you, and by some silly leap of logic concludes that you therefore need not have the right to effectively defend yourself, and most especially with an advanced device that could possibly level the playing field, or worse, even threaten their rule.

I think that the most interesting fact of the entire discussion is that such obvious things are so easily overlooked.

JR




posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by sasquatch5100
 


It’s a personal opinion, it’s not like I am about to take the next flight out of Heathrow with a few of my bud’s head out and burn your constitution. It’s not as if I have targeted any of you individually, its nothing personal for me, I think guns are evil and as such have no place in society. if your are talking that personally then you really have to grow a thicker skin.

So far in this thread I have been called, stupid, ignorant, silly, a coward, weak, a disgrace to the whole of Scotland and in general flamed with just about every response. My opinions have been held with much less respect than any of the other oppinons in this thread. Why, because you all want to keep your little toys.

Get over yourselves, you have scoutsniper, ranting on and on like I am a enemy of the state. Calm down, all of you, this is just my opinion, it should mean nothing to you.

PS. Why cant scoutsniper talk for himself.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


You wrote: "Hey, this might be off topic but I am curious.

What is it in relation to this thread that you think the moderation staff should have cause to intervene and why do you think they have failed in this respect.

Also you keep going out about how my fellow Scots would be ashamed of me for my opinions based on a Hollywood film made by Americans about a man who lived hundreds of years ago. This is the same place where the public outcry after a few toddler were shot with air-rifles led to them being banned. I don’t think you realise the hypocrisy in ranting on at me about how I am Scottish and as such cannot comment on American affairs, yet at the same time make out that I am a “descries” to all Scottish people because they would all agree with you, and we have this big national fighting spirit.

Its was only a film, its not even historically accurate.
=======================================================================================
Let me start by saying that I never mentioned anything about a "movie" concerning William Wallace. You did. I stated the "History of William Wallace" before those who have "re written" the correct history, came in and changed it. You continuously are "assuming" things that were never said by me. That makes you what you are by definition

The definition of insanity is: " to keep repeating the same mistake and expecting a different result". That must be you. I have two friends that have "Proud Scottish" blood coursing through their veins that would really enjoy making your acquaintance. They would be proud to "reverse your opinions" after having read your posts. Oh... they have a great many weapons and know how to use them.

You lost this battle of words with me but haven't got the sense to realize it. Like I have said, I shall not engage in conversation with fools. This is not a "slight" against you, it is a fact. "A fool is as a fool does". Let the readers here at ATS decide who won this debate. You are in your own "comma" dreaming about victory, all the while, the medics are trying to revive you from just having been KO'ed. It's time to wake up to "reality". How was it for you? Was it as good for you as it was for me? You are not in my league. You have no experience concerning this thread you started. You started this thread to draw "attention" to yourself. Congratulations. How's that working out for you? Personal attacks? Be sure to know that had this been done at Prison Planet, you would quickly realize what "verbal abuse" is truly all about. This isn't verbal abuse, it is just stating the facts that you have a problem of accepting. Be thankful that it didn't happen there at PP. I would have "laid you out".

Oh, concerning the mods here at ATS, we have a "little on going thing" concerning the deletion, editing, censorship etc.or any other form of "changing the contextual meaning" of posts here at ATS. I won that debate as well, or I wouldn't be here still making "statements of fact". I posted some of the "barbs that were aimed at me" from the mods, to some one here, but, I am not about to look through all my posts to dig it up. You want to know, then find it your self. I'm keeping my weapons and shall use them in the event that any one should try to take them. That includes you. Like that, I shall have the opportunity to "show case" my "unique set of skills". (Courtesy of the US military 72-76) Now, that wasn't to bad, was it?!!!!!!


Scoutsniper



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


Agreed on the personal level, I apologize for being personal. However, freedom is an elusive value and a moral issue but sometimes people don't realize they have until it's gone. So some of us protect it vigorously, even in a harmless discussion to get our point across. Especially these days when our God given, or natural rights as humans are attacked with vigor, however you view it. You are free to defend yourself too Kevinunknown, even if you choose not to exercise it, believe it or not, you're born with that right no matter what some politician legislates.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by scoutsniper
 


You are really very arrogant, it’s not about winning or losing for me, it’s about expressing my personal opinion to stir up discussion, debate and learning from it. I think guns are inherently evil and as such should be banned in any civilized society, if you have another opinion then that’s grate let’s talk about it, with some civility. It’s not about me winning you over so you’ll change your mind, it’s about discussion shearing opinions having a bit of a debate and so on. If you have “won” this debate, well done, but at the end of the day what have you won, nothing. My opinion on guns has not changed, I would still burn your second amendment if I had the chance so really you haven’t won in that sense, no one has.

The argument that you put flawed about having friends proud of having Scottish blood in their veins who would agree with you means nothing. I have a couple of American friends who would agree with me, the argument is mute.

Speaking of your friends with Scottish blood, if you ask them they will tell you about how the Scots have a fantastic mastery of the English language when it comes to verbal abuse. So please if you want to I can “show case my unique set of skills” (courtesy of Glasgow Sauchiehall street 3am) just pick a online forum with no moderation staff. Really just PM me the forum, and your username.

edit on 20-12-2010 by kevinunknown because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


You wrote: "Speaking of your friends with Scottish blood, if you ask them they will tell you about how the Scots have a fantastic mastery of the English language when it comes to verbal abuse. So please if you want to I can “show case my unique set of skills” (courtesy of Glasgow Sauchiehall street 3am) just pick a online forum with no moderation staff. Really just PM me the forum, and your username.


You'd like that wouldn't you?
A good "sniper" never gives his position away. That was a very poor attempt on your part in trying to find out just exactly who I am. "Anonymity" means working without being heard, seen, felt, or even "smelt". As far as being arrogant, and, "not a very nice person", maybe, but only to those that I choose. You are out of your league. Go back
Cut your losses. You said it was not about winning or losing an argument. That is a mistake on your part also. "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing". Vince Lombardi

You never answer for all the things that I pointed out such as you mentioning the "movie" about William Wallace and having it look like I got my material from that movie. . You must understand that it is "you" that shall always be on the "defensive", not me. Like I said, had this been an actual fire fight, you would never heard the round that took you out, let alone, know where it came from, or if I was even there. Go back boy. You haven't got a chance in any debate with me. I don't need to do anything except point out all of your ridiculous posts. It's "you" that is making "you" look bad. Not me. You need no help in making yourself look bad. You are doing a fine job of that all by yourself.

I am an American and I love my Guns, Constitution and my Country, for better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness or health, until death do I part.
How's that for a responsive "opinion"?
And there is nothing you can do about that.................. kevinunknown.

Scoutsniper



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by JR MacBeth
 


You sir are correct.Your post is "spot on", to the point and effective.



Scoutsniper



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by scoutsniper
 


Was that the grate sniper, refusing a challenge?

Your anonymity would not be compromised, it would just mean I could use the type of language I would like to be using as could you and I could also show case my unique set of skills for you, then you might just realise your out of your league. Really I can guarantee your anonymity would not be compromised. Besides, if I really wanted to I could have one of my many computer geek friends trace you through the internet to tell me exactly where you live, I have no intention in finding out where you live. If you change your mind just send me a little message.

It’s really interesting how you are obsessed with being a sniper, I still can’t figure out if you where actually a sniper or your just a very knowledgeable enthusiast either way it doesn’t matter. It’s almost as if it’s the only way you can identify yourself, as if you are infatuated with the fantasy or past reality of being a sniper. Makes me think that’s all you have in your life your guns, and that is why you find this thread so challenging and difficult.

Just so you know, your claimed sniping skills do not represent your debating skills, I think you might be getting the two confused.

edit on 20-12-2010 by kevinunknown because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


You wrote: "It’s really interesting how you are obsessed with being a sniper, I still can’t figure out if you where actually a sniper or your just a very knowledgeable enthusiast either way it doesn’t matter. It’s almost as if it’s the only way you can identify yourself, as if you are infatuated with the fantasy or past reality of being a sniper. Makes me think that’s all you have in your life your guns, and that is why you find this thread so challenging and difficult.
=================================================================================
No, quite the opposite. I find you to be very "simple" and not even a "challenge", since you bothered to reply. You are less than "water in my shoes" which in time is eliminated by pressure, heat and constant use. Now, go get yourself some "Guns"! You know you want to! You want to put your cross hairs right between my eyes, then, squeeze the trigger. Does that anger you? It doesn't bother me. I might have considered you a "challenge" if I gave you any thought. How's that "arrogance" level gauge of yours working now? How about the "nice person" gauge? This is my last post to you as you have nothing to say that is relevant to the topic and you really aren't worth any more of my time. That means you get to put in "the last word". Don't forget to eat your bananas. That should make you proud.


Oh..........you wrote: "Was that the grate sniper, refusing a challenge"?

Perhaps they didn't teach you the proper English at the school you mentioned. The word you needed to use was "Great" not "grate". Now isn't that "GRATE! What was the name of that "Grate" school you attended again? Yeah....right.

Last post to kevinunknown by

"The Grate"
Scoutsniper
θάνατο πριν από ντροπή



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by sasquatch5100
 


That post is absolutely correct. Wish I could put it together in that fashion.

Scoutsniper



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


With Scottish blood on my mother's side, after listening to you, I have to wonder when in hell did Scotland, the land of the Norsemen lose their testes?

I'll tell you what.

You want to come and "burn" our Constitution?

Why don't you start down in the Southern United States, and be sure to bring lots of your 'buds.'

When you get here, make damned certain you have lots of firearms, as we like doing things nice and legal down here. It's called "self-defense," or if we really can't justify that, in your case, we'll call it "pest control."

Burn our Constitution.

Never by you.

You don't have the means. Neither the physical means nor the moral means, nor the guts.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by HattoriHanzou
 


How can you call a Gun the “holiest of objects” when it is guns that are the tools of evil, genocide, war, robbery, rape, murder, torture and so on. I think you should go back to Sunday school.


The gun is the only object that can allow a person to destroy rapists, genocidal maniacs, robbers, and so on. Notice that before every genocide of the 20th century, the evil government was careful to make gun ownership illegal or at least to force compulsory registration of firearms so they could take them before the killing commenced.

I know you are just trolling here, or you are a perfect slave. But as half my family was from Scotland, I find it utterly disheartening to see what has become of the motherland. First England raped your women and killed your boys, and now you are on your knees in the dirt and thinking that is the natural position for a Scotsman.

We will never give up our firearms, no matter what UN treaty is passed. It would require the armed forces of all nations to force us to do that, and frankly I don't think they have the manpower even then.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


I see you completely ignored my post.

I live in the UK.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by HattoriHanzou
 




now you are on your knees in the dirt and thinking that is the natural position for a Scotsman.


My hat is off to you HattoriHanzou!

MacBeth, and Scots everywhere are proud of such sentiments, so beautifully expressed.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by FarArcher
 

RE: Kevenuknown
seriously this must have been said before me but listen man.you have to read your own history of opression. At the time, England would stop at nothing to rule the world.
God bless gun power and Lead and men of courage and sacrifice to run the "Misfits out of "OUR COUNTRY"

can I get an AMEN
edit on 20-12-2010 by mike184ever because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-12-2010 by mike184ever because: meant to be posted to Kevinunknown



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 05:23 PM
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edit on 20-12-2010 by mike184ever because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


I think it's a great topic, awesome thread, I think it's a pity about the aggressive posts towards you, all very typical really, 'scoutsniper' sure isn't dispelling any myths, in fact he is living up to so many cliche's it is just sad. Most of it just comes off as self the self righteous rantings of an isolated, childish soul who spends their time writing incredibly long and incredibly aggressive posts towards people concerning their personal beliefs or opinions. Don't worry though mate, they make you look good.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 07:14 PM
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edit on 20-12-2010 by sir_slide because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by sir_slide
 


Just so you know, those cliches' you refer to?

Usually based on fact.

The primary difference between me and others, such as the monkeyman is that I really don't give a tinker's damn of his opinion on this.

He's not from here, he's not a citizen, he's got some twisted view on his subject, and has no idea as to the American gun owner's mind. Hell, we have some similar candiasses in our own country, and they don't have a clue either.

Cliche' ? Myth?

Whatever. Just goes to show you the understanding. Some folks don't have a clue.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 08:17 PM
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Another thing to think about... "A gun is just a tool", that has been said many times. It is nothing more than a superior rock throwing machine.

Take away the machine, something else will replace it...

I worked construction for many years and once met a security guard when I showed up very early in the morning. He had a Craftsman #3 phillips screwdriver in his hand and was casually tossing it up and making it twirl in the air great precision, almost like a juggler. I asked if he had found the tool during his shift. He replied that no, it was his screwdriver, and he carried it all the time. What for I inquired? He replied by spinning around and throwing it at a sheet of 5/8 firecode plywood some 30 feet away, and sinking it to the handle. He explained that he was prohibited from carrying a gun due to some allegations made in the distant past by an ex girlfriend. So he carried a screwdriver. He had practiced with that screwdriver 8 hours a night for months, and his proficiency was astounding! Any random distance out to 50 or 60 feet he could hit a paper plate (head) sized target and sink it to the handle every time. I was very impressed with his skill. While I prefer my 1911, I would not hesitate to enter close quarter combat with him at my side. He was that impressive.

Just an example of the inanimate object not being the source of the violence...

Guns don't kill people. People kill people...

MWC Out



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