How Would You End All Religions on This Planet?

It is also rather nice, if I might say so, even relaxing - to have a source of gratitude, which does not terminate in one's own narrow self interest, at some level.

It's congruent, that indepensible i-Thou or i-Tao relationship with the Absolute. Uplifting! Capable of wiping the tears from a person's eyes with a smile and a really good joke at our own expense.

I just wish some people would stop pretending, based on their own prior assumptions, that they do not know what I'm talking about..

They are like Shultz in Hogan's Heroes. I KNOW NOTHING, provided you give them a nice apple strudel.

reply to post by sinohptik


This is a common misconception and common argument against Atheism. I never said i could prove "God" does NOT exist.

And again, make a positive assertion; The burden of proof is you! You say you can fly, i say "proove it!"

No scientist, theologian, mathematician, philosopher has ever demonstrated the existence of a divine being, it seems if that information was so obvious, what would there be to deny?

Theists claim to KNOW of this God, and know how "he" created the universe, or our reality, most importantly they know what his desires of our lives are. What arrogance is this? To deal in revealed wisdom of the universe on the basis of faith - "a belief without evidence". Now i ask, for what reason do they base their faith on other than the doctrine of historic man...and why should we follow their ancient dogma for fear of being called a "sinner"?

Historic man that has proved ignorant throughout history and is still been proven so now, that's why we've progressed, we've learned the Earth orbits the Sun not vice versa as the "TRUTH" doctrines of religion once described. We've learnt victimisation of women and foreigners should be thought of as undesirable traits in a stable civilisation.

God was inferred when man didn't have an answer for things; "the God of the Gaps". "A volcano erupting? That's punishment from God! - Kill babies so God might spare me" "Disease? This is the work of the homosexuals that God is clearly against" Ignorant man with ignorant dogma.

Now just because i'm against religion, doesn't mean i don't agree with some of it's moral foundations where i see reason. But just because the bible has moral and ethical teaching doesn't mean it has a monopoly on it. It doesn't mean that before the arrival of religion man thought killing and raping was ok.

This is why i despire Theism and hence i am an Anti-Theist, because each religion is equal or equvilent glimpses of the untrue, it's used as fearmongering, and it insults our intelligence at a core level, to say "without God, you cannot be moral"

You only have to look at the history of religious conflict throughout the world compared with the few short years we've had in the name of Secular society, democracy, fight for the freedom of ourselves and others and where theocracy cannot encroach.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


The problem with this debate is that we (atheists) are trying to argue them out of it with reason, religion is purposefully designed so this will not happen, that's why people of religion use methods of proof that cannot be falsified scientifically, such as the bible, the existence of a soul, etc.

Atheism is a natural step in the advancement of mankind, it's like teaching a child to swim. You can't just throw them in the deep end right away, but sooner or later you are going to have to take their floats off and let them find out they can stay afloat themselves. Just let them be, sooner or later they, or their children, or their children's children will come around. Or we will all kill ourselves, it's up to them pretty much.

reply to post by awake_and_aware

Yeah it's funny that, they know the truth that Atheists, Agnostics and even Deists can't possibly know.

Indeed and let us see where these people who fail to provide any evidence of benefit from believing thier nonsens actually acquire their revealed wisdom -

Religion is a problem, yes. If one were to be proven true beyond any doubt for all to see, that would solve some things. Or if all were proven to be false beyond any doubt for all to see. Or if all religions were proven to be true because of parallel realities... I don't know if that would be good or bad...

The solution would be to somehow make everyone forget religion ever existed, or somehow make people see the logical fallacy in religion, therefore creating a global "What were we thinking?!" epiphany... But the question is: how do we create that epiphany?

As for the religion = war thing, war is territorial at its roots. The rich and powerful men wage war for territory (and the subsequent resources, geopolitical advantages, etc.) but they disguise it under the false veil of religion (or political superiority) so that the dumb grunts will fight for them. Would the poor fight for the rich so that the rich may become richer? No. So they hide behind religion. If religion didn't exist, men would still find cause for war.

I think war must exist. As light and dark exist, so must war and peace.

Originally posted by OrphenFire
The solution would be to somehow make everyone forget religion ever existed

Start closing McDonalds on Sundays.

reply to post by RSF77


That's the frustration of it - It can't hurt spreading the good word though. I think it's an important debate. The debate that separates two massively different worldviews.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


That Hogan's Heroes, that's an apt analogy when you come to think of it, because the truly religious, who are given to the understanding that the religion is meant to impart, and imbue, they already have a way out and a dug tunnel, but instead would prefer to remain, behind enemy lines, for the sake of the greater good. So not only are we not going away any time soon, we'll just keep on coming until every blade of grass is enlightened under the gaze of a human being.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Yea, its frustrating sometimes, but they really aren't doing anything to hurt us besides constant trolling, lol. I was an aggressive atheist for a while, I eventually came to the conclusion that it's ineffective, and might actually bet detrimental to its own goal.

While atheists are ostracizing religious people, it gives them a reason to oppose us. While we were silent, people who have some rationality would constantly and quietly creep over to our side. Because of all this atheism debate and bus sign arguments, we are now getting a bad name as a whole.

reply to post by RSF77



I always used to think like that - But you only have to look to the west, with education, with knowledge God seems to fade away - Just look at Sweden (majority atheists) and a significantly lower crime rate.

I have and always will be an Anti-Theist, because i do believe, or rather it is evident, that religion is not good thing for a stable progressing civilsation.

Just look what we've done in the last 500 years, the age of enligtenment, Gallieleo>Newton>Einstein to name a few - and in a short period of time in the west we've gone from horse and cart to reaching the moon!

It all started with the questioning of reality, and "faith" was no longer needed.

Christianity opressed and humuliated Gallieleo's theorys due to their own myoptic sense of reality based on their Dogma . i.e. "the Sun revolves around the earth, we are the centre of the universe" It just shows their doctrine is not the truth and that knowledge can vastly destroy religious superstition.

I believe we should fight it, to free our future generations, to show that we can be moral without religion, and that science can do much more for our brothers and sisters.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


The atheist has no worldview, no frame of reference, except, that of a materialist monist (matter is primary) isolate consciousness within the framework of a purely "rational self interest", which inevitably falls apart in times of crisis, a "secular humanism", that leads ultimately to cataclysm and a breakdown in Civility, where Civility may be defined as: Consciously motivated organizational behavior that is ethical in submission to a higher power, or I would add a higher power principal, or even at the very least, an imagined perfect observer.


Word of the day

collegial (look it up)

Christianity, in all truth, is collegial.

reply to post by RSF77


Ahh,Ahh,my church prefers Bob Evans
Closing down the restaurants on sunday
wouldn't do any good.Sunday is the first
of the week,saturday is the sabbath!

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by sinohptik

 

This is a common misconception and common argument against Atheism. I never said i could prove "God" does NOT exist.

And again, make a positive assertion; The burden of proof is you! You say you can fly, i say "proove it!"

No scientist, theologian, mathematician, philosopher has ever demonstrated the existence of a divine being, it seems if that information was so obvious, what would there be to deny?

Theists claim to KNOW of this God, and know how "he" created the universe, or our reality, most importantly they know what his desires of our lives are. What arrogance is this? To deal in revealed wisdom of the universe on the basis of faith - "a belief without evidence". Now i ask, for what reason do they base their faith on other than the doctrine of historic man...and why should we follow their ancient dogma for fear of being called a "sinner"?

Thank you for replying, its taken some prodding

However, i personally claim none of the above. If you would like to discuss my beliefs, lets do it. I am not interested in defending others beliefs beyond the extent that its just as valid as my own. Be warned though, i have little interest in your opinion on others beliefs for the same reason. I want to know *your* thoughts on the matter, not your thoughts on others thoughts (the core of anti-theism). Your thoughts on my thoughts are also more than welcome I dont believe we should follow the ancient dogma, but going against it is the same as following it, at its core. You are letting the belief system shape your own, "it" is beyond all that b#.

Historic man that has proved ignorant throughout history and is still been proven so now, that's why we've progressed, we've learned the Earth orbits the Sun not vice versa as the "TRUTH" doctrines of religion once described. We've learnt victimisation of women and foreigners should be thought of as undesirable traits in a stable civilisation.

God was inferred when man didn't have an answer for things; "the God of the Gaps". "A volcano erupting? That's punishment from God! - Kill babies so God might spare me" "Disease? This is the work of the homosexuals that God is clearly against" Ignorant man with ignorant dogma.

I wont defend others beliefs beyond that i feel they have a right to it.

Now just because i'm against religion, doesn't mean i don't agree with some of it's moral foundations where i see reason. But just because the bible has moral and ethical teaching doesn't mean it has a monopoly on it. It doesn't mean that before the arrival of religion man thought killing and raping was ok.

I agree completely!

This is why i despire Theism and hence i am an Anti-Theist, because each religion is equal or equvilent glimpses of the untrue, it's used as fearmongering, and it insults our intelligence at a core level, to say "without God, you cannot be moral"

You only have to look at the history of religious conflict throughout the world compared with the few short years we've had in the name of Secular society, democracy, fight for the freedom of ourselves and others and where theocracy cannot encroach.

edit on 15/12/10 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

edit on 15/12/10 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

How i see it, being "anti" that which you despise allows that very thing to have the same level of control as if you were for it. I agree with the "glimpses" of the untrue, i just lump all belief systems into that (including atheism) and not specifically the nebulous term of "religion." Even thinking "theocracy" can control the dissemination of divine (if it does or does not exist) is giving in to human powers that desire control. When i see this type of discussion, all i see is two different sides of the same coin (at least so far). God, if such a thing exists, is beyond any of our definitions. Being against someone who is just as ignorant as you, because you think you are less ignorant than them, is the root of all the strife in my eyes. It happens on both sides. Reverse psychology.. Maybe "religions" WANT you and others to be atheist? Would you know? Maybe its just a plan to fortify their faithful and you are playing right on along? This IS ATS afterall

I am aware that everything that goes through the filter of my perception is tainted by it. The most important question, to me, is "could you be wrong? could God exist?" If the answer is no, then obviously people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones I like the discussion though, thanks for actually putting effort in!

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Wrong humans have evolved to be solidarity creatures, often seeing and seeking the benefits of cooperation. We have compassion and empathy.

The way you structure your argument, would show that, for example, an Atheist would not return a wallet to it's rightful owner if found. Are you saying i have no understanding of peoples frustation around me, that i would be happy to be iresponsible for my own self interest? then i say you are wrong. so wrong.

Name one moral or ethical act a religious person can perform that us Atheists and non-believers cannot?

The point is, we have to be moral. Objective morality is an illusion, that's doesn't mean i'm saying raping and pillaging is ok.

Just remember, bible and doctrine were written by primitive man, man who condone genocide, slavery and racism OR.... if it truely is the word of God then these are the wishes of your God. Are you angry that these IMMORAL preachings are not taught or advocated anymore?

It's so much more easier to understand that God was made by man, this explains the contrasting wisdom. Man cannot deal in revealed wisdom of the creation of the universe and the invisible forces of nature. This is proven as Christians thought the sun revolved around the Earth. Clearly not truth, clearly the immature and ignorant preachings of early man.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


I agree with you of course, but I've never actually seen someone reject god because of reasoning on an internet forum. There may very well have been someone, but I wasn't there.

If there was an atheism rally or some major cause that needed to be addressed, which there is, and there were atheists with some pull that needed help in their cause and had the means to get it done in the world, I would jump up to help. We just don't have any influence in a predominantly religion based world now, that may change in the future though. Less than a century ago African Americans had hardly any rights, and now we have a partially black president. I just hope I will be there to see the world 'wake up'.

reply to post by mamabeth


Hehe yea I know that wasn't completely true, Christians wouldn't be the only ones raising a fuss if they shut down mickey d's. For the record though, I don't eat that crap except for maybe once or twice a year on my lunch break.

Just don't forget, that in your vain attempts to primitivize (is that a word) religion, that at it's core, resides all the wisdom of the ages, ancient wisdom. That's what it really is, at heart, not the exoteric, lieralist, fundamentalist doctrine.

Stop confusing one with the other, that's a crappy and stupid argument.

reply to post by RSF77


I disagree! I'm sorry - There's plenty of activists out there, great speakers, great thinkers. This is the best time for it, free market, information is widely available, books, articles, videos online..... writers like Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Dawkins are the "GODs" (lol) of the atheist community, truely inspirational speakers.

Even ancient Philosophers have been destroying Religious logic for many centuries (Aristotle)

I think it's a great time now for Atheism, with knowledge, reason and a place like the internet to voice one's opinion.

Keep spreading the good word and fighting the good fight friend.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Please tell us - what is the "good word", the good news you have to share. Thanks.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Name one moral or ethical act a religious person can perform that us Atheists and non-believers cannot?

Love God. Love being in God. This is not accessible to you, but it's a highly ethical act, as a first cause, bearing the good fruits of increasing awareness.