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Have These Chemtrail Formations Been Appearing In Your City Lately?

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posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 

Weedwhacker,
Just because you speak, or write, doesn't mean that anything of value is conveyed. It is important that you understand that, at least to me, because it appears you put much time and value on your "stock".
I would try to sell this "stock" too, like you are trying to do, but I am not buying. Look elsewhere.
I hope you have a merry, chemtrail-free Christmas!




posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by sinohptik
 


Actually, I go into everything believing that I am wrong, that it is just a trick of perception or belief, until I have amassed enough info to change my mind. However, as I have said, this often comes down to deductive reasoning and connecting it with other threads of thought or information (connecting the dots in other words.) Unfortunately, this is a flawed system because it relies both on intuition and connecting dots that others may not have seen or fully understood yet so it is difficult to communicate to people that require actual "physical" proof (which as has already been stated is difficult to do in this case unless you have an airplane yourself and a prediliction towards sampling sky trails or can jump really high with a jar in your hand.) Add that to the mass of info that is really disinfo that people on both sides of any argument take on as their "truth" and the waters get really muddy. Add to that the subjective nature of words such as "truth" "proof", and "belief" and it's really amazing anything of Truth (with a capital T) ever gets communicated. Still way off topic based on the OP, but I'm not griping about it, at least this is more interesting that some of the other stuff that's appeared on the thread.

As a teacher once told me (slightly paraphrased), "The Truth does not require you to believe in it to exist"
edit on 12-12-2010 by coyotepoet because: end of paragraph

edit on 12-12-2010 by coyotepoet because: finish sentence



posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by Animatrix
 


Oh, please! Why must it be told to what are assumed to be modern, intelligent adults that planes flying in different directions will leave contrails in different directions? What is the stretch of logic there that doesn't come through?
A plane flying N-S leaving a contrail, and a plane flyin E-W leaving a contrail, the contrails will cross. Sometimes directly, sometimes pushed by the wind. Contrails drift just like clouds do.
They are not patterns, they are not painting a target, they are showing two planes routes which happened to be going in different directions. That is all. That is all it ever has meant.
Why is this hard to understand? Can it be anymore clear?
I've often seen the claim that "chemtrails" are pharmacuetical designed to dumb-down the population. People who believe in "chemtrails" cannot seem to make this not-too-awfully-long-leap-of-knowledge. Perhaps it is not "chemtrails" themselves, but the belief in them that makes people ask this particular question?



posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by sinohptik
 


Actually, I go into everything believing that I am wrong, that it is just a trick of perception or belief, until I have amassed enough info to change my mind. However, as I have said, this often comes down to deductive reasoning and connecting it with other threads of thought or information (connecting the dots in other words.) Unfortunately, this is a flawed system because it relies both on intuition and connecting dots that others may not have seen or fully understood yet so it is difficult to communicate to people that require actual "physical" proof (which as has already been stated is difficult to do in this case unless you have an airplane yourself and a prediliction towards sampling sky trails or can jump really high with a jar in your hand.) Add that to the mass of info that is really disinfo and the waters get really muddy. Add to that the subjective nature of words such as "truth" "proof", and "belief" and it's really amazing anything of Truth (with a capital T) ever gets communicated.

As a teacher once told me (slightly paraphrased), "The Truth does not require you to believe in it to exist"


I agree. The world is greater than we know. However, i have fallen into the danger of projecting my own reality and gut feelings onto situation in which i, personally, have had no part. Its tricky. Thats why i so strongly suggested some points of investigation.

I know its tough to get physical proof, but i thought i put forward some great investigative ideas for you. Maybe youll take them farther someday and prove us all wrong, saving us in the process. I say that will all the sincerity in the world.

if you come up with a method to jump that high, let me know. i want in



posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by sinohptik
 

You know, I am reading your responses, but are your reading mine? Why do you respond to me if you are still clueless?
I believe that I wrote that if you have not gotten to the point where you KNOW something is being sprayed, we have nothing to discuss. Right?
Am I being unreasonable? _____________.Let me fill that in for YOU! YES, to YOU I am being unreasonable, because you have not yet reached the level that I have.
So....when you come to the conclusion, as I have, that something is being sprayed, look me up, and we will try to figure out what and why. Hopefully, as an internet community.
Stewie out for the night.



posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


And, for the record, all I've really argued that are in these things are aluminium because that's all I can "prove" to myself based on chemical analysis results. Though I have heard of sedatives, nanotech fibers that cause Morgellen's etc, I am always careful to not say that this is what is actually in them because I haven't seen proof for anything beyond high levels of aluminium. Still, that's bad enough to be breathing into our lungs.



posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 

What is that crap that is spewing out of the back of some of the planes, stars?
And the grids, the right angle turns? What is all of that about?
On a clear, dry day that a cloud cannot naturally form, we have all of this crap being sprayed in the atmosphere, making man-made clouds. What is that all about?
Yeah, you don't know.



posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


What do you people care what I believe anyway? You and 2 or so others are the only ones here trying to convince me, the OP and i guess the rest of the board that you are right, while im just stating what I saw and what I believe they are.
You guys' debate is one sided because, even though your opinion is noted, your arguments are irrelevant to me, especially when 90% of your arguments consist of "please provide proof...", when my opinion is my own and doesnt require to show you or anyone else proof.
Some people just want to argue and it hasnt taken me long to find out who a few of those members are.

edit on 12-12-2010 by Animatrix because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by dplum517
 


Contrails do not usually form when landing. I say usually because they will form in polar regions, which does not fit your criteria. There are also other types of contrails besides exhaust. They are created due to pressure on the ends of the wings.
Contrails form under certain criteria of temperature, pressure and humidity. These are found over much of the world only at flight altitude.
Took a bit of looking, but here:




The first has the contrails caused by pressure (mechanics I'm not going into right now).
The second, is from Antarctica. Just like your car makes contrails in the winter, planes will on the ground in polar regions.



posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 07:38 PM
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originally posted by Stewie
and we will try to figure out what and why.


Only when my opinion is the same as yours will you be willing to explore this? By my posts it should be pretty obvious im willing to explore it with differing opinions on what the conclusion might be. It just doesnt seem... any... investigative work has actually taken place. why? more clearly, why have you not followed your gut on this? Surely you know nothing of this sort will be accepted without proper investigative work. Or, at least some.

Possibilities:

Atmosphere has changed how contrails themselves are dissipated, locally or world-wide (for various reasons).
Cloud seeding in operation
Mind control, from sedation to full possession
Subversive messages, using ancient symbols and powers
Spread of poison to encourage growth of the medicine market (racket)
Planes leaving contrails

Or, any mix of the above, but each successive "add" would be much less likely. Things like this would not be unfocused.

This is my last post to you if you reply in a trolling manner again. It isnt a big deal to me, but i like nice people better

edit on 12-12-2010 by sinohptik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by stars15k
 


And, for the record, all I've really argued that are in these things are aluminium because that's all I can "prove" to myself based on chemical analysis results. Though I have heard of sedatives, nanotech fibers that cause Morgellen's etc, I am always careful to not say that this is what is actually in them because I haven't seen proof for anything beyond high levels of aluminium. Still, that's bad enough to be breathing into our lungs.


We can go from there, coyote. What testing methods were used? obviously important to reduce personal bias a degree What quantities were found, and where? i would think different levels would likely lead to different meanings behind it, even it its from something else entirely (having nothing to do with planes). Have you been able to link them to overhead flight patterns/atmospheric conditions? I know i keep asking, but id say its important. very important. if none of the flights are documented, and aluminum levels rise, even nominally, after fly overs, you might have some interesting information to go from. There would still be a long way to go, but if you could present that very information, with the proper testing method, contrails might get knocked down a couple percentage points on that probability scale.



posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 


It is your perception and perspective that is the point. You are mistaken in your views of what you are seeing. Unless you are so egocentric to think the trails are being sprayed especially for you. This would involve knowing your schedule, knowing the daily traffic conditions, knowing the winds, and knowing before hand where you will be stopping to make your observations. Lines going toward the horizon on a planet moving beneath you and winds blowing any direction over your head, from planes traveling a set route on a regular schedule are not anything important, noteworthy or even interesting. Your assumptions about them are.
I've debated with a paranoid schizophrenic about "chemtrails" before. She believes that the planes are in fact doing all of this and more just for her "benefit". Your insistence in your theory that they are somehow a pattern apparently made just for you, and your reluctance to accept the fact that everyone will see a bit different sky than you and that contrails from regularly scheduled flights would look like you describe is absolutely fascinating.



posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 


But you do realize you are using an invalid test, don't you? Have you not taken chemistry somewhere in school? You don't check your feet if you have a headache, why would you accept a ground level test and conclude it verifies the content of the atmosphere at 30K+ feet? Tests are done on the trail itself. Many, many times. For many different reasons. And there have not been anything found.
Think that it is all TPTB NWO disinformationalist agent shills only doing the testing? Wrong. It's experts. How many meteorologists post on "chemtrail" sites? Or chemists? Or any experts in aviation? Wouldn't that be the three fields of study to do atmospheric testing of aviation aerosols?
There is lots of real, serious, multi-disciplined, multi-national, multi-entites, peer-reviewed studies online out there. The method is exacting, each experiment and measurement well-documented, and each studies supports previous studies. The knowledge is out there. You just need to find it. Thinking that "they" are "spraying" something in pattern just for you.....not the way to find it.



posted on Dec, 12 2010 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by Stewie
 


Yeah, actually I do. I know all your opinions of your observations are peppered by your preconceptions because you want to believe there are "chemtrails", instead of know there are not.
You chose the chance of intrigue over science. I don't understand that concept.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


When it is a test done on a lined pond out in the middle of nowhere that has aluminium levels much higher than it had a few years ago, where would you suggest that came from? Obviously the air. It is not seeping into the water from the earth- the pond is lined. Okay, given, the aluminium in the air doesn't necessarily have to come from the trails, but if there is no industry for many miles around the pond, what conclusion would you come to?



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 08:10 AM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


So, are you calling me a paranoid schizophrenic? Because I work with people like that and am definitely not. Working on getting pictures from a different angle-taking a different way to work. If the phenomenon continues into this week I will photograph it. I won't argue the fact that right now it is just my word and observations-hard to prove a point that way, especially to someone that likes to argue and have the last word.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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So I brought my camera with me today and...nothing. No angles near the sun, no trails of any kind really except for a few non-persistent contrails. Still blue, cloudless (fake or not) sky in the afternoon. Granted it's warmer today than it has been recently, which seems to lend credence to the weather aspect of things (I'm not unreasonable.) But still, even with that I have seen persistent trails on days much warmer than this. I will continue to take my camera with me to try to document this. Regardless, I did witness a similar phenomenon 4 days in a row last week with the most angled sun lines on the 4th day (Thursday,) I still maintain that it was not a trick of perception/perspective as I saw these "sun-angles' from a number of different perspectives over the course of an approximately 45 mile drive. Still, with just my sketch and my word, I can't fault you debunkers too much. Maybe tomorrow...



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 


It would be good if you could get commercial flight patterns as well! anything you learn about it is a piece of the puzzle, which if put together properly, should give an idea of the full picture. At the very least you will learn whether or not commercial airliners are dropping what you are witnessing.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 


Um, you do know that the atmosphere temperature at flight altitude has no bearing on the the temperature on the ground, don't you?
It looks like maybe you don't.



Granted it's warmer today than it has been recently, which seems to lend credence to the weather aspect of things (I'm not unreasonable.) But still, even with that I have seen persistent trails on days much warmer than this.


Understanding the differences in the atmosphere at flight altitude and ground level, and how the atmosphere is layered really should be the first stopping point for you to study. The air "up there" is much different than what you will ever see on the ground, unless you go to the poles. There are seasonal changes, but it's not shown by ground temps.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 06:48 PM
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All of these "experts" on the weather, and humidity at altitude...
How about this? Can we get some experts to tell me when I should expect contrails to be persistent in my area? Like a forecast?
It should be easy for an expert that can explain away every cylindrical cloud left by planes.
I live in central Texas. Should there have been contrails today, Monday Dec. 13th? How about tomorrow, you should have the forecast handy and all of the weather data.
What will I see tomorrow?



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