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Have These Chemtrail Formations Been Appearing In Your City Lately?

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posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 08:48 PM
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rj -me- lives in n-wisconsin. 50 y o - home builder-[carpenter]. We here have noticed the effects of global warming since our winters are nothing like they used to be. uncle goes back to 1920s. We noticed the chem-spraying about 13-14 years ago here in n-wisconsin We hardly have any airplanes fly over this area of the us, so we knew right away when the spraying program started. We built a lake house for a retired air-force pilot, we asked him what they were spraying that seems to spread out and cloud up the skies by noon? He said he didnt know but that it wasnt normal for a plane to be laying down tracks like they were. As the years have progressed we see more frequent spraying, and see them spraying in the winter months since we almost had a snowless winter 7 years ago. We watch the planes flying to and fro from lake supieror laying down cloud seeding junk, sometimes making short runs and then flying back under their last spray , then comming back to the lake spraying again. In the horrizon you can see a big ball of cloudy haze with what looks like tooth picks sticking out [the chem trails]. SPAWNING A STORM-but mostly we see trails crossing the sky . They start spraying mid-morning, stopping in late evening.
ITS THE GLOBAL DIMMING PROJECT that most nations take part in. I see chem-trails in comercials, movies, # i even seen them in a kool-aid comercial this summer.
Take it from a man who lived over half a century, Global warming is real and they are trying to dim the sun during daylight hours as well as storm seeding when fronts come through.
watch as a storm front comes through and you will hear the planes flying up above the clouds constantly
watch in the early morning as a blue sky day turns to haze or crappy looking cloud smear after a few passes by the government planes.
I am 55 so i dont think i will see to much, but you people who are in your early 20's are f***ed!! I pitty you for what you will face . If i was you with what i know i would try to live fast cause i dont think you will live long
Some things we notice here besides the warmer seasons, especially the winters is that most bugs are gone? most of the trees are dieing our seasons are drought and heat then deluge of rain. one extreme to another. NOT normal weather so trees are really stressed out. I say the hellbound train is speeding right along-




posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by itsawild1
 


I don't believe word ONE of that entire post. Especially the bit about the AF pilot.

In fact....can't say for sure, but reading it, sounds very familiar.....like it's one of those Internet stories being spread around, now and then. People just copy/pasting. Sorta like those spam emails some get, then they turn around and pass it along.....??


edit on 13 December 2010 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by itsawild1
 

Thanks for that observation!
I would never call you a liar, but some might. Keep posting the reality as you see it.



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 08:19 AM
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i AM NOT A LIAR-but you can tell weedwacker likes to judge fast-he is in all the posts pertaining to chem-trails or global warming--i dare the jackass to come to n-wisconsin and see for himself-i dare for him to take the trip here to talk to John the retired air-force piolot. But i know he is a federal spy and doesnt look in the skies much. Its sheep minded people like this that ruins a society.
So come on up to n-wisconsin weed wacker-ya coward, and come talk to john and we will sit and watch the chem-spraying planes -you can tell me what airports they are heading for so i can laugh at you.-no major airports here-no military bases-but we sure have alot of chem-trailing big planes flying --mabe they are all carring weed wacker string for your brain stem--look up people and you will figure it out! ---

Weed wacker said i was a liar so i would even pay his air-fare here to talk to the retired airforce piolot and to sit and watch the planes spray daily over the big lakes. but a dis-info agent couldnt take me up on that offer, now would he?



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by itsawild1
 



i AM NOT A LIAR-


Didn't accuse you directly....merely pointed out the similarity to that post, as it is something I'd seen before.


--i dare the jackass to come to n-wisconsin and see for himself-


I prefer the moniker "jackhole" or "jackwagon".


I've been to Northern Wisconsin...in fact, in my twenty PLUS years flying for a major U.S. airline, and many years at smaller commuter airlines before that, I have been all over the country. AND., have seen many, many, many contrails, and ALL sorts of various weather patterns as well. I happen to also understand a great deal about meteorology --- it IS a subject that pilots must learn, among all the other things required. Experience helps a great deal, as well.


...i dare for him to take the trip here to talk to John the retired air-force piolot.


Ya know, it's always interesting to chat with other pilots. I can judge them on their merits, especially in a face-to-face meeting. But, a trip to N. Wisconsin is not in the cards, at least or the next few months. Not my favorite time of year, for a visit.....


But i know he is a federal spy...


You do???
Wow!! What, exactly IS a "federal spy"? CIA? Gee...news to me.....but, really....are you serious? You think that the U.S. Government would ACTUALLY waste time here, on ATS???


...and doesnt look in the skies much.


See above. (pun).


Its sheep minded people like this that ruins a society.


Wait! I thought you said you "know" that I am a "federal spy"?? So...."federal spies" are "sheep"?? You are confusing me...

Speaking of sheep.....nah....the irony will be lost on you.


So come on up.... -ya coward....


You paying for the round trip ticket?? I'm not going to waste my limited travel benefits, I expect someone else to cover it for me....


... and we will sit and watch the chem-spraying planes -


Yup!!! And, as I've mentioned, previously here...IF ONLY I COULD sit down, in person, with each "chemtrail" believer, it wouldn't take long to show them the fallacy in their "belief". That is exactly what some people need...some tutoring. It doesn't always translate through the blogosphere.....


...you can tell me what airports they are heading for so i can laugh at you.


Laugh all you want...I can give you some pretty good guesses....there is a particular website that shows the flights in "real time" (although, as I've mentioned before....I find that there tends to be a 5 - 8 minute delay....the site gets the data from the FAA radar installations, and seems to take some time to compile, before it displays. Wanna know the address? See below...


-no major airports here-no military bases-but we sure have alot of chem-trailing big planes flying --


You see, this happens ALL the time!! People just do not understand (it seems) that the airplanes making contrails are AT CRUISE ALTITUDE, and just passing by....they are not arriving or departing near where YOU are. The airplanes that are landing, or taking off, nearby do not make contrails!

The website. I suggest spending some time, getting familiar with it. Your friend John may be helpful, as he IS a pilot, and a lot of the website is geared to and for pilots. Still, the layperson can understand the gist of it, too:

www.flightaware.com...



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


You need to give up weedwhacker. You have not even come close to convincing anyone that CHEMTRAILS are contrails.
In fact why don't you tell us all WHO is PAYING you to post your crap all over the internet??



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by dplum517
 



I guess you may want something that is convincing?



You have not even come close to convincing anyone that CHEMTRAILS are contrails.


Check out this thread and see if it is helpful....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Was that convincing in any way? It is very interesting and informative. Enjoy.



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by dplum517
 


You seem to be obsessed with who may be paying WHOM, in regards to this silly "chemtrails" hoax debate?


In fact why don't you tell us all WHO is PAYING you to post your crap all over the internet?


I suggest you turn that around, and pay very CLOSE attention to the motives behind a select few that are involved in spreading this "chemtrail" crap all over the Internet!!

You must "follow the money", of course. ONE great (and easiest, from what I've heard) place to start is "Cliff Carnicorn". He may be (or may not, but close) the "grandaddy" of "chemtrails".

Seems (and this should be easy to research?) he solicited donations, in the past, from "believers"....to amass enough funds to mount some airborne tests of contrails, to determine what was in them. The final amount he collected varies, but I've "heard" a figure around $6,000. Naturally, NOTHING ever came of his 'promises' and the money? No trace of it.

At every "chemtrail" website you visit, pay particularly close attention to whether or not they have an online "store" where they sell merchandise...trinkets, really...sometimes under the guise of "sustaining funds" to keep the website active...or, they might just flatly ask for "donations".

AND, lest you think I am painting ALL "chemtrail" sites with the same broad brush....I will acknowledge that many of them are there for purely "altruistic" reasons, by the site owners. Not for any selfish profit, but merely because they gullible enough to be duped, and now "believe" that they are actually bringing something to the public's "attention". I feel most sorry for them, for being so naive. My animosity is reserved for the charlatans, and hoaxers, who do the actual preying on the ignorant.

Oh, and BTW....Here on ATS? Like I told someone (was it THIS thread?? Might have been), an average rate for pilot ground school instruction is about $45-55 per hour. This is right along with what a CFI (Certified Flight Instructor) may charge, nowadays. Of course, when you receive "dual" flight instruction, you ALSO pay for the cost of the airplane rental, per hour. Prices HAVE gone up, since I used to teach for a living....if I remember, way back then (late 1970s) I got about $15-18 per hour, depending on whether it was a Primary student, or Commercial/Instrument, or Multi-Engine training instruction.

SO.....like I told the other ATS member? Here on ATS, I DON'T NEED THE MONEY! What is offered here is gratis. In fact, everyone here does it for free....yes, even the Staff Moderators.

Call it a "hobby". There is a sense of satisfaction that can be derived, knowing that ignorance is getting an ass-whuppin' --- up to the limitations available in these forums, anyway.....

Oh, and.....since it is YOU who keeps raising the issue of, to paraphrase, accusing others of being "paid posters" ---- it certainly raises suspicions in others' minds as to YOUR motives. When you play the j'accuse! game, well....the phrase ...".....the (lady) doth protest too much, methinks...", (**) comes to mind.....just sayin'.......

**("lady" is correct, from the actual quote, and not meant to imply any specific gender towards the person referenced in this post. Original quote source: Shakespeare; "Hamlet", Act III, Scene II).

All rights reserved. Patent pending.
No animals were harmed in the production of this post.
Void where prohibited by law.

(..this space reserved for any other boilerplate that may be deemed necessary in future...)



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 06:54 PM
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I have seen a lot more con/chem-trails around my place lately and I'm really not sure what to think. It makes sense that hot gas and cold saturated air would produce a smoke like trail...but it also makes sense that it would do this on take-offs and landings too. Why are these trails only visible at high altitudes?



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by budaruskie
 



Why are these trails only visible at high altitudes?


It's complex....but, primarily the main determination is temperature. After that, Relative Humidity (saturation of water vapor). Often not mentioned, but another factor, is the density of the air. It is simply the case that the thinner air (lesser pressures) at higher altitudes dictates the contrails (AND the cirrus) clouds formations, shapes and development.

As member Stars15k noted, she posted a photo of (I believe a C-130 turboprop) landing in Antarctica...with contrails behind it, forming because it is WAY cold, down there. Even at surface level pressures, they formed, because it's so bleedin' cold.

One graphical learning aid to represent the relationships is the Appleman Chart. Again, this is not fool proof, in terms of "predicting", but it has a respectable accuracy record:

asd-www.larc.nasa.gov...

Within the above link is this one: weather.uwyo.edu...

Both of these have been posted elsewhere, in thread. Of course, the link to the University of Wyoming, and the data they compile and publish, is only relevant for those in North America. Our ATS friends OzWeatherman and Essan are real-life meteorologists, and have the knowledge of other web links, to other areas of the World. As well as a wealth of experience, in their fields.

As I've pointed out, elsewhere....using those radiosonde datasets (from the Univ. WY link) yield only approximations, because of the limitations of the times of observation and measurements recorded. Every twelve hours, or so. A lot can change, in the atmosphere, in that time frame. AND, the air isn't always homogeneous, there are usually smaller pockets of variations, that may not be recorded in the data.

As an example, in the airline biz, one of the "great white hopes" is a reliable way to predict inflight turbulence...especially that animal known as "Clear Air Turbulence" -- (CAT). There are many indications for weather-related, and low-level wind-related turbulence...but CAT is harder to predict. Even when all (known) signs point to its being there...sometimes?? We fly through the area, and nothing! Other times, it is there, and not predicted at all....so BAM! The atmosphere is complex......


I am intrigued by a "blog" post that comes up, when I search for the "Appleman Chart" --- a 'dude' feels that 'he' has debunked --- uses the dramatic, on over-used word "proof" --- the Chart! I think it's time to "debunk" 'him'!!!

Should provide some insight into the way the "chemtrail believers" minds twist the science, in order to fit their "square peg" beliefs into a round hole.....



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by budaruskie
 

Check this site out and do some study on your own.

chemtrails.cc...

Chemtrails are VERY real, don't let anybody kid you. There is a lot of money vested in this, and they will work diligently to mislead us. All these people care about is profits.
This is, of course, my opinion. I only ask that you keep an open mind and do your own research, the material is out there. Much like 911, there is more to the story than many would like for you to believe.




posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by Stewie
 


Here is the link to a thread that you might want to checkout. There is a very interesting post that may have some useful info regarding chemtrails and contrails. So enjoy the reading.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 

Um, didn't you already post this link?
Yes, there are many threads here on ATS, pro and con. You know of ONE. Congratulations.



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 09:21 PM
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What I'm trying to determine is how widespread the use of chemtrails, really is. I don't doubt that the gov't and possibly other corps or entities have and still do spray chemicals into the air with the use of airplanes at high altitudes. What I have doubt about is how often and it makes me damn curious to know why. I have personally seen the sky at my place literally covered with man-made clouds from high altitude airplanes, it takes a couple of hours but I've literally watched the process. So, how do I go about finding out if those clouds are made of something other than hot air?



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by Stewie
 


Yes I did post it earlier, and I posted it again just in case you missed it the first time.

As for this comment..



Yes, there are many threads here on ATS, pro and con. You know of ONE. Congratulations.


Actually if you would have read that thread you would have seen there was some posts that were relevant to this thread, but I guess snide remarks were easier than looking at that thread. To each his own I guess, maybe you would have found something that helped your argument on this subject.



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by budaruskie
 


To what end?? It is an impractical, and wasteful method:


I don't doubt that the gov't and possibly other corps or entities have and still do spray chemicals into the air with the use of airplanes at high altitudes.


As has been pointed out, over and over....do the math! I have.

Calculate out the SIZE of the area of sky you see, in a vista just from horizon to horizon. When you have that figure, THEN remember the other dimension in the geometry of it....depth. So, from the square miles or kilometers value, you jump almost exponentially to the CUBIC figures. Geometry term for that is VOLUME.

Not convinced? Think on a small scale, mind experiment:

One square foot, grid of inches. Total area, square inches? 144, of course.

Total CUBIC inches? 1,728

ALmost forgot the point (in case it was missed, so far...).

DILUTION.


edit on 14 December 2010 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


What are you talking about? I already stated that I've seen the trails dissipate into thin clouds. That is obvious, what isn't obvious is what the clouds are made of.

is it this?

or hot air?

I really don't know, how do I find out?



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 10:47 PM
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Chemtrails are a bunch ,, chemtrails are not a reality.Please study atmospheric conditions, and come to some understanding of condensation and weather patterns. Do the work of finding real information about science and then drink some coffee. Morning.



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by budaruskie
 

Consider that everyone knows planes do "skywriting", right? No one denies that. So, obviously THIS is not contrails.
Now, consider that the "debunkers" continually assert that they KNOW for a fact that other than "skywriting", military chaff spraying, or "known" cloudseeding programs, NOTHING ELSE is being sprayed.
That is a pretty ridiculous position to stake out, don't you think?
It is to me.



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by Stewie
 


Good Point!!
Another point that should be noted is that all the debunkers on this thread and other threads get their information from a WELL KNOWN DISINFO site...ie "contrailscience.com" That website is a textbook example of how to run a disinformation campaign.
You can even get the websites info from your browser and find where the domain name is being hosted and go to Go Daddy dot com. Well it turns out its through a "Proxy" site that you can register through Privately. So, that means the owner of contrailscience does NOT want to be known.
The website is pitiful anyway.




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