Have These Chemtrail Formations Been Appearing In Your City Lately?

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posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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Coyote, can you prove, or try to provide "logic" how specific planes are droppings specific chemicals?

Lets take out contrails/chemtrails themselves since they are indistinguishable in this context (start testing them physically, and with proper method, and that might change). Their patterns are attributable, at least in part, to normal flight patterns and normal contrails (unless ALL trails behind ALL planes are chemtrails?). Even if they are in the small minority, without actual testing of the 'trails, no conclusions can be made. Unidentified planes arent relevant, unless you can access the physical plane. Many people fly unidentified "officially" as well as "unofficially" and have nothing to do with anything other than keeping those ID numbers safe, for many, many, many reasons. reasonable reasons too (the best ones, i think
). It could just be a bunch of drug runners (even referenced in your quote somewhere, i think). So, if you would be so kind, if you could take those factors but and still present things. I know its a bit of a pain. But on things like this, where a completely sound, reasonable, simple explanation fits, i personally need to see a whole lotta stuff before i start considering it. Always open though.

Keep in mind, this is coming from someone with zero education on chemtrails other than reading part of a book a few years back and discarding immediately (no offense
). To me, i would explain literally everything by contrails, flight patterns (changes happen too), and just typical flight behavior. Try to convince me otherwise though! Just try to do it within the parameters above, at least for me




posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Yes, contrails do show up in old movies and im sure that most we see now are legitimate condensation trails.
Think about this though, what better cover can they have than that? There is no way to prove or disprove what
the trail is made of or which ones are legitimate condensation or artificial.
Over the Bay here in S. Texas, I regularly see these trails and sometimes, like just the other day, they can take the shape of a perfect X and on a few occasions, a Cross.
They arent crude looking formations either, the lines are straight and almost all of the time, the perfect lengths for the X or Cross.

So, how does the condensation, create these kinds of formations with such precision?

Besides that though, why Crosses or X's? Its as if its a marker for something.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by sonjah1
 


I can tell you if it helps with the discussion with your husband that I am not in Cali and am in fact several states over.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by Animatrix
 


Except for the few images I saw of chemtrails in Washington DC. Didn't see more than a few pictures so I can't generalize but the ones I saw over DC were circles and arcs. There is a clear esoteric differentiation between circles/arcs and lines/crosses. All of what I see where I am are either lines or crosses.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 


"FAA Map"???


She was basing it on the pattern of yellow lines going in a thick loop she pointed out on the FAA map. If she is incorrect about what those yellow lines are about than I would appreciate your explanation as an aviator.


Don't know WHO made that "map", nor WHO drew "yellow lines" on it....where did she say it came from??

Like I said....the "intra-" stuff....well, only possible term (and maybe she heard it, and it confused her) would refer to "intra-state" flights (as opposed to any routes that either pass over head, never landing or taking off in CA, or, that originate/terminate out of state).

She sits there, and yammers about he "yellow loops, going round and round", and points and gestures with her fingers....but, there's NOTHING THERE!! She is deluded, sorry.

However, since she's at least a "public figure" (??), since the description mentions her name, and occupation, then I should be able to get in touch with her, via email, and clear up some of HER terribly incorrect misconceptions.....but, I wonder if anyone else has already tried, yet??



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by sinohptik
 


Short answer, no I cannot "prove" what's spitting out what but neither can it be disproved by proving something else. The closest I could get to prove it to myself was seeing data of chemicals, especially aluminium, on land and in water where it just shouldn't be. If I had access to my own plane I'd go up and collect samples, but since I don't I have to use deductive reasoning based on what is found on the ground and in the water. Like, for instance, chemical analysis that showed 61,000p of aluminium in the snow on top of Mt Shasta. Last I checked, that was far enough out to factor for other sources of pollution. Could anyone "prove" to me that they don't exist?



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by Animatrix
 


Except for the few images I saw of chemtrails in Washington DC. Didn't see more than a few pictures so I can't generalize but the ones I saw over DC were circles and arcs. There is a clear esoteric differentiation between circles/arcs and lines/crosses. All of what I see where I am are either lines or crosses.



What proof do you present that those are not normal contrails?

Ill ask like this:

If i were to say those were simply planes doing their normal behavior and doing everything from going straight, to elevation changes (sometimes rapid), to turning.. How would you say they were, in fact, not planes acting normally and leaving chemtrails instead of typical contrails? How do you personally differentiate the two?

and just to clarify, chemtrail theory is only that -some- are chemtrails, some are contrails?



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 09:08 PM
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Could anyone "prove" to me that they don't exist?


Must have posted when i was writing


To be blunt, the burden of proof is on you my friend. when a completely rational, reasonable, explanation exists it takes more to buck the trend
and really "proving something doesnt exist" is a tricky thing to do! You can prove that that which you see is indeed not what you thought it to be, but not so much that that which you dont see does not exist.

Plus, i dont claim to know what im talking about.


I actually DO think its the perfect cover, but really anything mass transportation isnt exactly "watched" by the general citizen anyway and im sure you could find correlative stories amongst other mass transportation if you looked.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by sinohptik
 


Did you even read the entire post? I said there is no way or at least, very difficult to prove whether they were legit contrails or something artificial.
And it would be my opinion that if these planes are "spraying" something that they would only make up a percentage of the entire commercial/civilian/military aircraft.
So, based on that opinion, it would be hard to tell which trails are natural and which are artificial.
Now, having said all that, its also my opinion that it would be difficult to create the perfect X's and Crosses that ive seen with a natural condensation trail, so it would seem that those would be artificial.
Hows that?
edit on 11-12-2010 by Animatrix because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 09:11 PM
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I just thought I'd say.. YES. I've been seeing chemtrails a lot lately.

I was so alarmed at the sheer number of them in the sky one day that I actually took a picture of them. There was quite a lot of activity in the air, it makes you wonder.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 09:16 PM
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Did you even read the entire post? I said there is no way or at least, very difficult to prove whether they were legit contrails or something artificial.


I did actually, i just was not talking directly to you.
first post by prefacing with "coyote" and others by quoting. though the one i quoted was itself a reply to you.

Im still open to discussion about it, just expect me to provide my viewpoint


Can you explain to me why such patterns (X's) would not occur by any other means other than a chemtrail? If so, lets go from there. Do they line up with documented commercial flights? If not, theres a step in your direction.

How does one tell the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail?



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by sinohptik
 


Ah, my bad.. I seen my name in the "reply to" field and thought it was to me.. ive made that mistake a few times on here.

Anyway, all i can say is no i cant prove one way or another what is or isnt artificial or if anything at all is artificial, unless, A: i was involved in it in one way or another or B: i knew someone that was (which i dont) and could trust they werent lying.

I would think that if there was spraying being done, that it is most likely for the purpose of weather manipulation, at least one major country has admitted to doing this but im not sure if they mentioned spraying from planes as a delivery method.

In regards to the formations, i just said that it seemed like it would be a remarkable coincidence to have these perfectly formed shapes (for lack of a better word) to be consistent and naturally forming.
However, i dont know enough about weather/humidity and atmospheric conditions to be able to say for sure whether or not a contrail forms, in something like maybe a thermal pocket that may form regularly over the bay.

By the way, im not closed to the idea of a decent debate but constantly saying "prove" or "disprove" your theories, isnt much of an argument



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Thank you for the education by firehose. I'm a quick study and this is sure to help, especially when we are discussing something that comes from airplanes. As for the maps, she says she got them from the FAA, I've got no reason to disbelieve that.

Here's screen cap #1



and screen cap #2



You can see faint yellow lines on the ocean by her finger and thick yellow elsewhere. Those don't look drawn on, especially on the map that is laminated. Would it make any difference that these maps were from 2003? Not sure when the interview was done.

Now as far as proof and disproof (and this is not just directed at you), there are lots of things, especially when we are talking about conspiracy stuff, that cannot be proved or disproved when looking at things in isolation, but when looked at in combination with other dots in the bigger picture, one can start to put pieces together.

I assume, especially in forums like this that there are quite a few disinfo agents out there. However, there are also people who are truly skeptical with no ill will toward anyone else. However, in much the same way the medical insurance companies got people to argue against their own interests to preserve the profits of the insurance companies (re :"attacking Obamacare') this has much the same feel. When it comes right down to it, without collecting samples of it up in the air, I can't prove that it exists beyond observation and the metals tests that I have seen. However, I don't want to make the assumption that it doesn't exist right up until the point that it kills me.

Also, I'm a relative newcomer to the whole chemtrail thing. Noticed it but didn't really care one way or another up until I noticed a sharp increase in trails starting at the beginning of November, then I started to pay attention.

Still, in all of this, everybody keeps trying to argue this from the do they or don't they exist perspective without even engaging me in discussions on the original topic of this post which is the "clocking" sun angles that I noticed and no one has even brought up the predictive aspect of my experience in which I correctly predicted to myself that 2 lines would appear at sharper angles to line up with the sun at that point in time within 20 minutes of each other or its similarity to ancient cultures sun tracking rituals, and yet it happened. I choose to no longer engage in these distracting discussions of chemtrails vs. contrails. However, if someone wanted to discuss other aspects of this like:




at least move past the black and white do they exist or don't they propaganda dialectic and engage me on some of the more interesting points of this, like it's similarity to ancient sun tracking rituals, my predictions of the lines appearances, it's sudden appearance over the last several days or any of those other things that make this interesting.


Again to self-quote another post (without the quote box this time)

There is so much more to discuss in this particular thread than just whether they do or don't exist using the same old arguments. I'd be happy to engage you in those types of discussions.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 09:46 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by Animatrix
 


So, what bits of information convinced you, personally, that these were factual occurrences with chemtrails and not contrails? Why are the chemtrails being put up there? At what frequency would that need to be repeated?

If i was interested in taking steps at proving such a thing, i might just overlay flight paths on wide-view shots of the sky. Ideally, with atmospheric conditions at applicable altitudes, and identification of the planes (at least by generalization, moderately by make/model, ideally by ID number). It will be tricky removing variables, but patterns should emerge.

You are entirely correct about the "proof" thing. reality is a funny thing..

edit: ill also try to be more clear who i am replying to, improvements could be made
edit on 11-12-2010 by sinohptik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 09:55 PM
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Also, if any body is interested, Intel Hub featured a whistle blower on the whole chem trail thing

theintelhub.com...

I heard an audio interview with the whistleblower but can't seem to find it right now.
I'm sure people will go to work trying to debunk that. Don't really care except to when it comes to intentional disinfo. Let the wolf eat your children. I'm walking around with my eyes open.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 

Hi coyotepoet.

To have an idea of what kind of planes do the spray, see this extensive well done report !:
www.chemtrailcentral.com...
Go 3/4 down the pages and see the graph with 4 pink dots !

{Don't worry, someone will come to say that in the report:
"this is no good, that is no good, yada yada yada"}

And see WHAT they

put the brakes on
in there ! ! !:
www.handsoffmotherearth.org...
About ten lines down the article, you will find it.

Now, come and tell us that "nutrients" is "contrails" ! ! ! Yeahhh rrrright !!

Blue skies.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by sinohptik
reply to post by Animatrix
 


So, what bits of information convinced you, personally, that these were factual occurrences with chemtrails and not contrails? Why are the chemtrails being put up there? At what frequency would that need to be repeated?

If i was interested in taking steps at proving such a thing, i might just overlay flight paths on wide-view shots of the sky. Ideally, with atmospheric conditions at applicable altitudes, and identification of the planes (at least by generalization, moderately by make/model, ideally by ID number). It will be tricky removing variables, but patterns should emerge.

You are entirely correct about the "proof" thing. reality is a funny thing..

edit: ill also try to be more clear who i am replying to, improvements could be made
edit on 11-12-2010 by sinohptik because: (no reason given)


!; Opinion. Why: as I said, weather/climate manipulation. Frequency, no idea..
Honestly, it isnt a major "cause" for me, not enough to devote anymore time than im putting into this thread tonight or the occasional read on other sites.

My home over looks the bay and i like to look out my window while the dolphins play, while im doing that ill check out the sky and a huge cross or X kind of stands out against the blue background.
Maye next time i see them, if i think about it and if my son hasnt taken my camera batteries out for his xbox controller, ill snap a pic of it and re-visit this thread.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 10:04 PM
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Still, in all of this, everybody keeps trying to argue this from the do they or don't they exist perspective without even engaging me in discussions on the original topic of this post which is the "clocking" sun angles that I noticed and no one has even brought up the predictive aspect of my experience in which I correctly predicted to myself that 2 lines would appear at sharper angles to line up with the sun at that point in time within 20 minutes of each other or its similarity to ancient cultures sun tracking rituals, and yet it happened. I choose to no longer engage in these distracting discussions of chemtrails vs. contrails.


I felt i was trying to learn more about it in a respectful manner, either way, ill still try..

Have you tried to match them up with flight times and patterns for your area? If so, and they match up perfectly with commercial flights such patterns are likely caused by commercial flights going to and from the many airports we have here in many different flight paths. Is it possible such tactics were used to avoid something in the atmosphere? Those patches move, and so would the planes avoiding it. What purpose would such patterns serve in chemtrail usage? I would think things like better coverage, but i havent been able to figure out exactly what is trying to be accomplished with these. What effects do these chemical trails have physically on the environment?



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by sinohptik
 


Wasn't saying you in particular. As for the lines and patterns, there are esoteric reasons for them. On one level lines represent masculine energy and control dynamics. Whats in them and why? Who really knows except for the people doing it. As for what it's doing to the environment, even though one debunker thought the movie, "What in the World are they spraying" was crap, a USDA biologist said that it was changing the Ph of the soil, an organic farmer in Hawaii said that it was damaging the coconut trees. There was a patent filed last year for aluminium resistant crops. Monsanto would stand to benefit from something like that.

And, for what it's worth to all the debunkers, I really do hope that in the end I am wrong and you are right. The implications of me being right are far more sinister than the implications of you being right.
edit on 11-12-2010 by coyotepoet because: forgot to answer question
edit on 11-12-2010 by coyotepoet because: (no reason given)





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