I experienced a "classic" UFO sighting: Nov. 28, 2010

Originally posted by TheFlagHunter

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by TheFlagHunter
And as I said, it's just my opinion - and I'm entitled to it.

If you're going to call someone a liar in public, especially on ATS where personal accounts of such things are encouraged, substantiation is expected as your accusation may be seen as both an insult and attack.

As it stands - people come on this site to post theories and ideas - then others come on searching for the truth. And I debunk what you say by simply saying, "you made it up to get flags." - The only way you can prove this debunk wrong - is by creating a new account with zero flags - that will prove to me and everyone else that you didn't just make it up to get flags.

That's my theory and I'm sticking by it.

I hope you realise he doesnt have to prove your "debunk" wrong. He experienced a sighting out of the ordinary and came on here to tell everyone about it. Who are you to call him a liar? He is the owner. He doesnt need flags. You call him a liar but he can call you a hypocrite by looking at your name.

on topic: interesting story, would like to see something like that myself

Originally posted by TheFlagHunter
And I debunk what you say by simply saying, "you made it up to get flags."

That's not debunking, which typically involves conflicting facts/evidence, it's dismissing/denial.

reply to post by naraku


Lets look at the facts here.

What we have in the original post is nothing more than some creative writing.

We have NO photographic evidence, we have NO video evidence, reading all the other posts - we have NO witness accounts of this fantastic "sighting". We have nothing but a little story. - A story backed up by the fact that the OP is a skeptic.

Look at his account. Look at the ridiculous amount of stars and flags. - People like him wear his stars and flags as a badge of honor. They build up the S&Fs then hit you with a BS story and people assume it's true because of the amount of S&Fs they have.

Well I say, BS. You can't fool me with your creative writing.

Originally posted by TheFlagHunter
Well I say, BS. You can't fool me with your creative writing.

And I'll say your attention-whoring for being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

Again, the standard here on ATS (and generally in real life anywhere else) for calling someone (anyone) a liar is to support your claim with evidence that refutes the story of that whom you accuse of lies. Where is yours?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Look, Mr Overlord - The simple fact is : People are entitled to an opinion.

In my opinion, I think you just made the story up. (To get flags)

Take it as you will. Choose to be offended, choose to call me an attention-seeker.

Whatever. - I don't really care - but I do think I have a right to post how I feel on the matter. Especially as if we look at the facts - all the original post is, is a creative story - with absolutely NOTHING to back it up.

You just hope that your reputation will hold the story up - hoping people will assume everything you say must be truth. Well I say, "Hey ATSers!! Don't blindly believe everything you read just because it says, "Site owner" with 12,000 Flags."

reply to post by TheFlagHunter


You are entitled to your opinion, but you find out you are mistaken when you eventually witness one yourself. Or maybe you make it a habit of even doubting what YOU see.

This is not a True or False discussion. This is "I allegedly saw [this] what do you think about [this]", not "in your opinion is my story believable". You may not be convinced, but for those of us who actually have witnessed similar happenings this is only the next healthy step.

Don't be vain. Just because you have no had an experience relative to this, does not make every damn person who actually HAS a crazy star-seeking liar.

reply to post by ThinkingCap


It's slightly unbelievable for a number of reasons - I mean, "Yeah.. just kickin' back with my iPad and a few brewskies - ZOMG A UFO! I won't attempt to get my mobile phone and record this."

Originally posted by TheFlagHunter
People are entitled to an opinion.

Except that when your "opinion" is to publicly call someone a liar, you need to substantiate it.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by TheFlagHunter
People are entitled to an opinion.

Except that when your "opinion" is to publicly call someone a liar, you need to substantiate it.

No! No! No! No! and No!

No "excepts" - you sounds like the US government. People are entitled to an opinion period. No buts/excepts.

I said, "I think you're making it up." So in other words, "I think you are a liar" and I stated that. And I think you made it up, in order to get flags and stars. You can't even prove me wrong.

Originally posted by TheFlagHunter
You can't even prove me wrong.

Prove yourself (potentially) right. Point to any other post of mine on ATS where I've lied.

In the history of human interaction, it's been incumbent upon the person tossing accusations of lies to offer evidence for their claims/insult.

Sure, it can be fun for you to sit back behind your computer screen and scream "NO NO NO," "Lies, lies lies," as a rather easy form of personal entrainment on topics that contain personal accounts of extraordinary experiences. But the fun would become stripped away if you're actually required to take the time to prove yourself. So far you have not, and refuse to do so. So your accusations and insults can only be classified as disingenuous disruption for personal entertainment.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

Although, I will tell you, you are wrong. I simply (and you must agree) am pointing out that there is a danger for people to naively believe what they read because it comes from a so called reliable source.

If I had 20,000 S&Fs and said, "Hey everyone - you know me, I'm an infamous athiest amongst all my peers - but listen - I saw Jesus last night. And he told me God exists."

You would want people to question that right?

reply to post by TheFlagHunter


What you do not understand, is that there is no danger in believing in this. Yes, excercise your discernment. It's very crucial to not being a complete and utter fool. But on the other side of the coin is where your skepticism lies. Will you call everyone a liar, until your favorite media station tells you what to think?

It is a possibility that he made all of this up. But this is not the first time this story has been told, meaning this is merely a personalized Forward of an event similar to thousands of other encounters. Meaning that this story is no less credible than any of those who have documented UFO activity, through video evidence or testimony on a damn forum.

It doesn't matter, because the truth is that when someone witnesses an event like this - one comes to terms with the fact that the main stream understanding of our cosmos or technology is either convoluted or blanketed in secretism. You cannot deny that, so why are you so loyal to the status quo while at the same time trying to discredit someone's experience based on their popularity on a damn website?

reply to post by ThinkingCap


I respect your input, I really do.

But I would just like to let you know, that I have no grievance with "Believers". - I don't want to start an argument with your good self - all I want is for the OP to prove me wrong. It's between me and him. My opinion against his.

You seem to have some anger in your postings to me with all the damn this and damn that comments - please don't feel offended because I called out all the people that blindly accepted his fictional story as truth. (It's easy to fall into that trap.)

reply to post by TheFlagHunter

disingenuous disruption for personal entertainment.

Hmmm, sounds like the perfect definition of a TROLL.

Reading all 24,640 of Skeptic Overlord's posts to find a lie should be fun for you...
Hint: I've read most of them...SO does not make things up.
Anyway...I won't feed the trolls any more...

Enjoy your stay here.

reply to post by Zeptepi


Yes, yes - I knew it was only a matter of time before someone used the T word. Ofcourse, anyone with a conflicting, bold, idea - TROLL.

...I mean, seriously, is that what it has come to?

Is my theory SO hard to believe? Is it SO hard to believe that someone could be just chasing flags and stars? Just because it's the mighty SkepticOverlord everyone gets their knickers in a twist?

Come on guys.. ? Where are the free minds? Must be the 4 people who starred me.

reply to post by Zeptepi


You fail to see my point. I thought I did such a good job, I even threw in the word damn at the end.Your only argument here is that he has a high status on a website and that makes any story he tells false.

These aren't the goats you are looking for, go back under your bridge.

reply to post by TheFlagHunter


That was to you, not Zep.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by CHRLZ
If anyone's interested, *and* if S.O. is willing to answer some.. rather important questions, I'll be happy to do that.

Why be timid? You've never held back before.

Timid? Why do you assume that is the reason? Do you not realise how much work is involved to go through such a lengthy post with a very fine toothed comb and apply some scientific rigour and analysis?

Why would I waste my time if no-one is interested? I mean, you didn't even answer my *first* question, so that does not augur well...

I will proceed (- later)... by firstly posting some images that may look a little puzzling/pointless, but there are some points that need to be made and only one way that I can think of to make them.

Sadly (grin - not really..) I have a life, so it won't be until at least tonight my time (and even that's not certain) - it's 8am here as I post this, and I gotta run - busy weekend. But I figure there's no rush - nothing new is happening - I trust you have been out since to check the sky for similar events and not seen anything..? Nor have you been able to find any good corroborating evidence, news reports, webcam images? Phoenix is a pretty well-populated area, isn't it?

So it's not like there is a tearing hurry..

Things worth doing are worth doing properly and thoroughly, I think...

In the meantime, is there anything in your OP that was exaggerated or altered for brevity/clarity/whatever, that you wish to revise?

Please do so before I start.

reply to post by TheFlagHunter


Reading your posts is like navigating a labyrinth of verbal nonsense. Opinion Vs Opinion doesn't make people liars. Your lack of critical thinking and myopic views distorts the truth in your eyes which ironically makes you a liar in yourself. Seriously, the owner needs flags? Really?

Based on your flawed logic and corrosive reasoning, you circumvent the reality that this phenomena exists. Not only do you minimize your conjecture on the matter at hand with 0 (zero) substantial proof he is a liar, you make yourself look quite foolish. Further, you're handle Flaghunter is also quite ironic.

I will leave you with one final thought. He who looks under the bed, hides under the bed. Think about that for a while.

Enjoy your bliss!

mabe couldve been an ILLUMINATI staged sighting, or mabe a real actual sighting, you did a good job and thorough report