N. Korea Crisis - Updated as News come to hand

Lil Kim was afraid...

Kim Jong-il hides himself underground for fear of US F-22 Raptors

North Korean leader hid himself in an underground bunker for nine days during the South Korea-U.S. joint military exercise off the west coast from Nov. 28 to Dec. 1 last year for fear of F-22 Raptors of the U.S. Air Force, the Joongang Sunday magazine reported.

The F-22 Raptor is a fifth-generation supermaneuverable fighter aircraft equipped with stealth technology. The U.S. aircraft carrier George Washington participated in the joint exercise.

goes to show the little guy is all bark and no bite what a coward..drama is all he knows ..all he is waiting for is his next hand out then start the drama over in a few years..china has him on a very tight leash he wont start anything it just his way to get more food for his poor starveing people and keep himself in the finest drink and food i bet when he was down in that bunker he was haveing lobster and shakeing in his pants..

Sounds like he is a smart guy.

First thing the Americans would do would send stealth aircraft and cruise missiles to bomb North Korean government institutions and leadership. It's only common sense to take precaution.

He thinks he is safe???!!! What an idiot!

1. Bunker buster bombs will destroy any bunkers hidden under the ground. He and his command group of generals are tracked daily by dedicated satellites as well as ground resources.


2. No matter how deep or protected a bunker is, or the resources capable of sustaining life inside, there will have to be outlets for air and drainage. These are the weak points where instead of air or water, lethal gas and poison can be injected.

All of these are planned in advance with engineering plans drawn up. What is on paper, file or bytes can be copied and passed to another.


3. Deep inside the bunkers, he will still have to communicate with the outside forces. Cut off those means of communication that needs to be on the surface will be enough to shut his commands or fake his commands to others.


Osama did the same thing, and the foolish lil' kim attempted to learn his example. Osama could have been destroy since day 1 but had been allowed to live for he served a purpose, while tight fisted tyrant lil kim serve no purpose to anyone except for himself.

He is finished the moment he or his generals gives the command to arm and cross the border

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


North Korea happens to have the largest subterrainian network in the world. It's not a couple of bunkers, it's more like massive tunnel networks, hardened bunkers (which non-nuclear bunker busters can barely scratch) for civilian and military use, hallowed-out mountains, etc etc.

They could probably move their entire population underground if they need too. Do you honestly think the US knows anything reliable about what goes on under the surface? Because the only real recon intel they have on North Korea is from satellites and anybody with basic military know-how knows that if you want to keep something secret nowadays, you have to do it underground.

I also find it interesting how people discredit NK nuclear tests too. They never saw the nukes because the NKs conducted them underground (which, by international treaty, is the only way to test now anyways), and only felt them. I'm sure the DPRK knows exactly how well it turned out while Western intel is left in the dark, apparently only left with the option to criticize what they don't even know.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Your reply would have been correct back in the 40s, but today, with infra red thermal imagery and ground penetrating satillite imaging, there is NOTHING that the US military and other superpowers do not know.

Even back in the 60s with the U2 spyplanes, air photography units were pouring over the pictures to determine the layout of tunnels, no matter how well hidden it can be and discovered much as those in Vietnam proved to be. And the U2 was not just restricted to Vietnam, but even to USSR back then.

There are Eyes in the skies that sees everything and lies not. If there were lies, it was because it had been decided to do so to serve agendas Do get updated. We are no longer living in the 40s, but a terrifying new century

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

Your reply would have been correct back in the 40s, but today, with infra red thermal imagery and ground penetrating satillite imaging, there is NOTHING that the US military and other superpowers do not know.

Even back in the 60s with the U2 spyplanes, air photography units were pouring over the pictures to determine the layout of tunnels, no matter how well hidden it can be and discovered much as those in Vietnam proved to be. And the U2 was not just restricted to Vietnam, but even to USSR back then.

There are Eyes in the skies that sees everything and lies not. If there were lies, it was because it had been decided to do so to serve agendas Do get updated. We are no longer living in the 40s, but a terrifying new century

edit on 2-1-2011 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)

The 40s? There were no satellites back then, and underground networks (aside from those built by ancient civilizations) were nowhere near extensive or complex as they are today.

Even during WWII, the US did not resort to building underground facilities for their major black projects. Instead they would just use eminent domain to acquire large pieces of land and fence them off. I fail to see what the 40s has to do with underground countries.

And I'm going to say it again, if you can't see it, then you don't really know what it is. This applies to underground networks being hidden from satellites. I know about the "ground penetrating" satellite recon technology that you speak of. In fact, I know just enough about it to know that it produces nothing more than data that can further produce theories about what the Americans may think is under NK soil, rather than anything of substantial value like a clear image or a spy.

I also know that "ground penetrating" satellite recon can only penetrate so deep, and is not always accurate. I would trust this technology if it was for observing geological or other natural subterrainian systems, but considering we're talking about its use against human engineering of secret facilities, then I very much doubt the reliability factor.

The NK have purposefully built large subterrainian networks to confuse hostile nations that are spying on it. Do you really believe that the NKs do not know about "ground penetrating" recon technology? Because then the NK counter-intel forces would be rather useless, wouldn't they? I have no doubt that they have engaged in a lot of decoy engineering and have adapted important tunnels to survive bunker busters (of a non-nuclear nature).

And I will be honest- I'm sure that in the darkest and sketchiest echelons of the US military there exists some special operations officers with access to top technology that have probably mapped out a large amount of North Korea's tunnels. Do you really think they are going to distribute this information out to anyone else in their ranks? That would compromise the hierarchy of military intelligence, and will open the gates to foreign intel agencies with their own elements in the US military to observe the pinnacle of US intel (including North Korean intel elements within the US military).

What I'm saying is that if the US did have all of this vital information, it would be kept so top secret that the American military, aside from special operations and intelligence, would not even know of its existence, for the sake of maintaining security within the American military itself.

I have to agree with Dimitri Dzengalshlevi here... US bunker busters bombs against North Korean bunkers are a joke, especially those carried by the F-22s. To take out those bunkers, you would need the 20 tons MOP carried by the B-2 or nuclear bunker buster.

And to take out all the North Korean underground tunnels with nuclear bunker busters... I doubt the US would have enough nukes

W7VOA (South) Korea Inst. for Nati'l Unification: Heir apparent Kim Jong Un could be promoted to marshall in 2011 becoming DPRK supreme commander. about 6 hours ago via TweetDeck

The whole power transition BS would end... and thus provocations... that would be nice.

SKorean activists rally against NKorea near border

South Korean activists have rallied against North Korea near the heavily fortified border, burning placards with the images of North Korean leaders.

Good for ya.

President Lee to Make New Year's Address on Monday
Shall be interesting.

Reps draft bill to tax all Koreans for reunification

The bill would impose a new two percent tax on income, a 0.5 percent tax for corporate taxes, and five percent each from succession and donation taxes.

If the government really doesn't touch that money unless it's for reunification, that could be good. But... they say the cost would be from a few dozen billions to a few hundred billion maximum... when most analysts say it'll be at 3-5 trillion $...

U.S.-China summit unlikely to produce agreement on six-party talks: S. Korean official
Ya think? Especially during the power transition in NKorea. Till this is done, I don't see any real talks.

Two Koreas' urbanization gap likely to widen further by 2015: reports
Been every year like that since the 80s... duh.

Monday JoongAng Daily editorial: "North Korea is a time bomb waiting to explode." about 3 hours ago via TweetDeck

Could very well be.

#ROK Pres. Lee reiterates S. Korea will strongly retaliate for any further #DPRK provocations. #Koreas about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

Of course.

Lee: Door for dialog with #DPRK still open. #Koreas about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

#ROK Pres. Lee says if #DPRK sincere then Seoul will provide substantial aid. #Koreas about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

Since when are they sincere? To be sincere, they need a leader change.

How N.Korea Hopes to Turn Its Fortunes Around

"Given the health of North Korean leader Kim Jong-il and the young age of his heir apparent Kim Jong-un, there is a risk of North Korea making some irrational moves next year," a Unification Ministry official warned.

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH statement of the year. Hopefully Kim Jong Un takes power without a war breaking out... or a coup happens by a bunch of reform/rational NKorean generals.

Mt. Baekdu erupts in 2016: Kim Jong-il
Yeah, well it could happen way sooner than that if you test another nuke. Remember last time? Ah yes, last time you tested a nuke, the activity in Mt. Baekdu picked up.

And if it does goes to full eruption, NKorea is SCREWED. As I said a few weeks ago, the only way for NKorea to be ``defeated`` without war is if the Baekdu volcano goes off.

Depends on how large the eruption is, but in 969 AD, the eruption send ashes as far as Hokkaido in Japan, it was one of the biggest eruption in the last 2000 years.

So Little Kim better hope it's not one of those.

South Korea Gets With The Program

Starting this month, the South Korean Army will extend its basic training from five to eight weeks. The training will also take place six days a week, instead of five. Thus the days of basic training are nearly doubled. The reason given for this is the perceived need to get ready for war with North Korea.

War with North Korea now seems more likely than at any time since the 1960s.

In the US army I think it's 10 weeks-13 weeks depending and in the Canadian army I think it's 13-15 weeks, depends if you're infantry or officer. Canada doesn't have the best troops for nothing.

Japan hopes for security alliance with South Korea

Japan wants to establish an alliance with South Korea to ensure security in East Asia against a backdrop of possible provocations from North Korea, the Japanese foreign minister, Seiji Maehara, said.

That would surely piss off NKorea and probably China. If this even considered by SKorea, it's gonna be a hard sell to the legislative body.

Minister urges N. Korea to acknowledge responsibility for provocation
No way that's gonna happen. Can't this minister just say it already... NKorea did this because of power succession.

Antisubmarine defenses boosted

The South Korean military is beefing up its surveillance power against North Korean submarines, and the Navy said it would deploy five more antisubmarine aircraft.

Won't make much of a difference. Even US pilots flying these anti-subs aircrafts are not real good with all the training they've had. Thing is, it's a really hard thing to do. So South Korean pilots...meh. More about image than anything else.

Kim didn’t trust China in 2009, says WikiLeaks

Hyun also quoted Kim as saying that relations with Japan were bad and that neither Pyongyang nor Tokyo intended to make a diplomatic move to improve them. In addition, Hyun cited an unnamed, high-ranking North Korean official she met in the North saying that Kim banned Japanese cars from Pyongyang streets.

Ahahahhaa. Banning Japanese cars. That's crazy talk... but that's what dictators do, crazy things.

South Korea Tells North Door to Dialogue Remains Open

A former U.S. State Department adviser on North Korea, Balbina Hwang, says the current diplomacy appears to be leading to a re-start of the talks.

Hwang said, "I'm surprised to hear myself say that there might, in fact, be very well a meeting of the six-party talks. That does not mean that, I think, there will be much progress made at those talks toward de-nuclearization.

Indeed.

According to the Debka file..NK..has been paid 150 million dollars by Iran to conduct a joint Nuclear test.French sources suggest the intercepted comunications between Iran and NK has gone up dramaticaly in the last six months.Hence the french presidents suggestion that the allies get tough with NK.The Stuxnet worm has closed down Irans Nuclear program..

Debka files...

#Japan Defense Minister Kitazawa in #ROK next Mon./Tues. for talks on boosting military cooperation. #Koreas 34 minutes ago via TweetDeck

I'm already hearing North Korea screams...

S.Korea Denies Report on Joint Military Declaration with Japan

South Korea’s Foreign Ministry has denied a Japanese media report that South Korea and Japan are considering signing a joint declaration on strengthening bilateral military cooperation.

See? Told ya so.

N. Korean leader most active last year despite health woes
Couldn't he just die?

Navy to hold drills against N. Korea's possible infiltration into Yellow Sea islands

South Korea's Navy and Marine Corps will hold joint maneuvers this week to strengthen their ability to detect and repel a potential infiltration by North Korea into one of five islands near the tense Yellow Sea border, officials said Tuesday.

The maneuvers, the first of their kind, will be held on Friday and Saturday with an unspecified number of personnel and military assets taking part, officials at the South's Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) said.

Drills... in the Yellow Sea... on one of the contested islands... and nobody is talking about it... or watching...

Seems to me like North Korea could do another provocation.

So in the last week or two the North Koreans held drills preparing to invade those islands, and now the South is holding drills to prepare to defend them. If you were Kim would you attack before the drills start so you have a better chance, or during the drills after they "provoke you by stepping one .000001 mm into your territory"?

If you were Kim would you attack before the drills start so you have a better chance, or during the drills after they "provoke you by stepping one .000001 mm into your territory"?

I would do diplomacy to reunite the country peacefully within the year.

The DP sr. ldr., Chung Dong-young, believe he can get inter-Korean dialogue revived if he meets KJI again (in Pyongyang). #Koreas about 11 hours ago via TweetDeck

Hopefully.

Japan Foreign Min. Maehara says Tokyo to hold talks with Pyongyang this year. #Koreas about 9 hours ago via TweetDeck

Good.

US Envoy in Seoul for Talks on Korea Crisis

"We believe that serious negotiation must be at the heart of any strategy for dealing with North Korea," Bosworth said. "And we look forward to being able to launch those at a reasonably early time."

Yeah...

DPRK says willing to improve relations with hostile countries
We'll see about that.

N. Korea stuck 30 years behind: Chinese official
More than that I would say.

Difference of what's important between South and North

While the big issue in the south is war, in the north everyone is obsessed with food, or the lack of it. Families of Communist Party and security service officials are buying all they can, and apparently stockpiling it. Lower ranking officials are increasingly asking that their bribes be paid in food (especially rice), rather than cash (which is declining in value at the black market currency exchanges). Similarly, several factories, that are still working and exporting, are asking to be paid in rice. Chinese traders and others who regularly deal with North Koreans (especially along the border) note a growing demand for food, and more people planning an attempt to escape North Korea. While South Korea talk of war, in the north the fears are of starvation, and of things getting worse. What is different is that it's now the ruling class up north that fears starvation. For decades, it was the ruled who worried about food, and quietly died of starvation by the millions, when the food was simply not there. This Winter, there's some new in the air; fear for everyone. This despite, or perhaps because of, bold government proclamations that the economic situation will be much improved by 2012. These kinds of promises are typical communist propaganda, and have been used many times in the past. This one is supposed to be special, because 2012 is the centennial of North Korean founder Kim Il Sung's birth and, many fear, the year Kim Il Sung's son will die and be succeeded by his grandson. North Koreans are openly disdainful of the current "plan," and all its aspects and implications. This is why the ruling class up north are in a panic.

Keeping the armed forces loyal is apparently the main function of the North Korean Special Forces, not leading another invasion of the south.

Anyway, that's an interesting article.

And I watched the documentary Dear Pyongyang and it was quite good. It explained how a lot of Koreans were living in Japan and that even there, tensions between ``North Koreans`` and ``South Koreans`` were high when they were high on the peninsula. That during the 70s, North Korea was sending lots of money to Japan for the Koreans to develop a bunch of Korean schools where they would teach NKorean ideology...

And what's weird is that Japan accepted that... not to mention the whole idea of North Koreans living in Japan... Japan the enemy of Koreans... and the story of 90 000 Koreans who left for North Korea in the 70s... of course none of them ever came back...they were stuck there.

Of course back in the 70s, North Korea was doing way better than the South. So they thought at least that NKorea was a great country to move to... and a lot of people thought that reunification was near...

Anyway, great documentary...I almost cried a few times.

240 Vermont Air Guard members to deploy to South Korea

www.burlingtonfreepress.com...

NKorea calls for unconditional talks with South

North Korea called Wednesday for "unconditional and early" talks with rival South Korea to put an end to months of tensions. Seoul quickly dismissed the offer as insincere and said it's waiting for an apology for two deadly attacks blamed on Pyongyang.

Unconditional talks uh? What about NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?

US envoy Bosworth says Washington will "never" pressure Seoul on returning to 6-way talks on #DPRK nukes. #Koreas about 11 hours ago via TweetDeck

Somehow I don't believe that.

Korea Herald editorial: Only alternative right now to 6-party talks is waiting for collapse of #DPRK regime. about 15 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

Or war. Waiting for regime collapse... yeah good luck with that.

President to convene monthly meeting on diplomacy, national security
Good...

Military Cooperation with Japan Must Be Clearly Limited

But the plan is stirring up considerable controversy because it involves Japan. Considering Japanese atrocities during the colonization of Korea and Tokyo's ongoing territorial claim to the Dokdo Islets, questions over the necessity of such a pact are justified. With Northeast Asia polarized between a strengthening alliance between the U.S., South Korea and Japan versus a bolstered alliance between China and North Korea, stronger military ties between Seoul and Tokyo could cause the status quo to become permanent. And China's position must be considered. China is South Korea's largest trading partner and a key player along with the U.S. when it comes to peace on the Korean Peninsula and the prospect of reunification. It is not in South Korea's best interests to be pushed to the forefront of the conflicting alliances in the region.

They should make a secret agreement instead.

Chinese Envoy in Seoul Slammed N.Korea's Botched Currency Reform

The Chinese ambassador to South Korea was highly critical of North Korea's botched currency reform at the end of 2009, calling it a "mistake" that risked "further alienating the populace," according to confidential diplomatic cable revealed by WikiLeaks.

Well duh. Kim Jong Il is as bright as Mugabe...

The Prospects of Korea-Japan Military Cooperation

South Korea on Tuesday denied a Japanese media report that Seoul and Tokyo are preparing a joint declaration to bolster military cooperation. "We have neither negotiated nor considered it," a government official said, adding, "Bolstering bilateral military cooperation is merely Japan's wish." Another said, "There are many obstacles that must be overcome for Japan to boost security cooperation with South Korea." The official complained that Tokyo "is leaking information to the press that has yet to be discussed with us."

Of course South Korea is gonna deny this 110% of the time.

Opposition to nuke dialogue’s resumption growing in US

U.S. opposition is rising against the bid of South Korea and the U.S. to resume the six-party talks on ending North Korea’s nuclear program.

The incoming chairwoman of the U.S. House Foreign Affairs Committee, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, urged Washington and Seoul to beef up pressure on Pyongyang, saying, “We must not fall into North Korea’s trap.”

Of course... neo-cons back in power.

NK residents in China moving to renounce citizenship

A Chinese newspaper has reported that North Korean residents in China are moving to renounce their North Korean nationality.

That's good.

Kyodo: #China military document envisages preemptive nuke strike in crisis. about 5 hours ago via web

Ain't that nice. A warning to South Korea/India/Japan/US.

Next year, in 2012, Xi Jinping will take over Hu Jintao as PM in China... and from his texts, he said he would stop appeasing the US...Hopefully the situation in Korea settles before that or big big big trouble could await the Korean peninsula.

egalite_twitted Proof NKorea is already enjoying benefit of going nuclear: it hits a neighbor with shells and still manages to draw intention to negotiate about 2 hours ago via twtkr

Indeed.

-- Resumption of six-party talks possible if N. Korea makes efforts for denuclearization (Chosun Ilbo)

And that happening... sounds like a fairy tale.

Asahi: NK Delaying Power Succession

Japan’s Asahi Shimbun daily cited the fact that the North did not mention Kim Jong-un's name in Pyongyang’s New Year editorial.

Quoting sources on North Korea, Asahi said the North appears to be intentionally delaying the power succession process.

The paper said the delay relates to Kim Jong-il's heath, which seems to have returned somewhat in recent days. The elder Kim reportedly suffered a stroke in the summer of 2008.

Dammit... that punk Kim Jong Il wants to stay in power till he dies.

China shifting nuclear rules of engagement: report
China is changing their ``limited nuclear deterrence`` policy they've been under for 50+ years? Is this the work of the next leader which said he would stop appeasing the US? This ain't good.

The Chinese military's strategic missile forces, the Second Artillery Corps, would "adjust" its policy if another nuclear state conducts air strikes against Chinese targets "with absolutely superior conventional weapons," the document says, according to Kyodo.

Seems to me that China is adopting the RUSSIAN NUCLEAR DOCTRINE.... which they changed back in 2006 I think... that's why Russia deployed tactical nukes back in August 2008 when war in Georgia broke out... in case the US entered the war.

The policy states that if Russian forces are attacked by superior conventional weapons... Russia can retaliate with tactical nukes. China seems to have adopted such a policy.

If China were to enter the war with North Korea against South Korea... yeah.

S.Korea's Special Forces 'Vastly Outnumbered' by N.Korea's

South Korea's special forces have dwindled to the point that they are outnumbered 10:1 by their North Korean counterparts, a military source said Wednesday.

Except South Korean special forces got way more ``real`` training than North Korean's.

US military in Korea to reach full normalization of family tours by 2020
So basically... you're planning to have troops in Korea till AT LEAST 2020...

‘US skeptical on NK's calls for unconditional dialogue’
Who isn't?

N.Korea encourages small-scale border trade

The North Korean military and ruling party are known to encourage small-scale border trade with China in what appears to be an effort to secure foreign currency.

Quoting an anonymous North Korean trade source, Radio Free Asia reported Wednesday that the number of trading companies near the border with China has rapidly increased.

Well good for NKoreans.


South Korea could accept ``unconditional`` talks with NKorea... but there would be a big domestic political cost... IMO... not to mention the results could be nothing...Will Lee sacrifice political capital for big chances of NOTHING? I don't think so.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Thanks for submitting all the info to this thread - you do a great job. I have been busy past few days, was good to be back and read - even tho I must say most is unsettling news.

A couple of questions: Do you know Lil Kim's age and what month his son might take over? I still feel Lil Kim wants to start things rolling before his time is up.

reply to post by crazydaisy

A couple of questions: Do you know Lil Kim's age

He will be 70 years old this year on February 16...same day as me... His son's birthday is January 8.

and what month his son might take over? I still feel Lil Kim wants to start things rolling before his time is up.

Yeah but according to the new reports, Little Kim is delaying his son's power taking because he's in better health... so it might not even be this year.

I think I would be changing my birth date, lol. Maybe not this year - feeling better - we're in for it then. Thanks my friend!