A different view on homosexuality from an imperfect Christian

Originally posted by lizziejayne
reply to post by Endure

 

By bizarre coincidence, I was discussing this very topic earlier this evening.

I currently attend a weekly bible study (which, by the way, I am enjoying and finding very interesting) in order to learn more about Christian beliefs and God. I am also a practicing homosexual.

At my request, the topic for the last 3 weeks has been sin and whether all sins are equal. My primary motive was to establish and understand why it appears that homosexuality seems to be "selected" as a sin of note.

After reading passages and discussing, our conclusion was similar to yours: sin is sin, whatever it is (apart from the unpardonable sin). There are deeper dimensions regarding true repentance and indulgence - but ultimately all purposeful or conscious sins have the same spiritual consequences, regardless of the moral "rating" we assign it in society.

I really enjoyed our discussions and now understand so much more about the Christian belief and basis.

One thing I would say is that I often used to select one or two verses of the bible and use them to counter-argue some of the propositions put to me. It's been very interesting to learn more about how background, detail and other aspects of the bible come into play when putting verses into perspective. I'd encourage others to accept that some things can't be taken in isolation and to learn more about both background and rationale - if only from a philosophical perspective. I'll certainly be taking my own advice in future when it comes to quotes from both Bible and Koran.

While we may not agree with what some belief systems consider as rights, wrongs and rules; I've certainly found it interesting and beneficial to find out what exactly is believed and why - rather than base my judgments on the ignorant and possibly bigoted "representatives" I often seem to meet

Peace & understanding

Thank you for this wisdom. I never attended or will attend "church". I too gained all I know from God's word from close knit Bible studies, it is amazing how different things in God's Word are when studied this way from what people hear in church.

Originally posted by Endure

Originally posted by Anam Gra

Originally posted by open_eyeballs
reply to post by Endure

 

the original post was more sinful to God than homosexuality,

Wow, that is a powerful statement.


Brings to mind something from the book of Enoch, that Wisdom was sent to Earth, and had to return because it could not find anyplace to dwell.

edit on 17-11-2010 by Endure because: (no reason given)

In that.....God is love..absolute....there is no compromise.........prejudice is a political instrument devised by mankind to control the people, any prejudice, race, religion, political ideology, sexual orientation, gender. When God speaks of love and the nature of all things, he finds..as you say..rocky ground and it has found little place to dwell. I have no doubt we will find out soon.

It's ofcourse very nice, that some christian dudes try to 'downgrade' some of your many various alleged 'sins', so 'sinners' instead of fearing to be stoned or suffering from panic-anxiety, only feel discomfortable these days.

But for us secular types, this part of christianity still appears to be the same bigoted, intolerant control-obsessed extremism it always has been. No matter how much you sugarcoat it.

Originally posted by calmbutwary

Very well put, Endure. It's important to remember that we are to love the sinner not the sin. Homosexuality is a sin. The commandments were given to man, for our benefit, not to animals.

edit on 11/17/10 by calmbutwary because: For clarity.

Personally the Bible has a lot of controversial stuff in it that we would find deplorable if it were practiced as quoted, so I don't really buy into a lot of the Old Testament especially.

Take a few of these gems:

- Advocating genocide and murder of women and children:

"“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3) "

- Advocating slavery

"“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18) "

- Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property]."

There are many more like that. You get the picture. Passages advocating murder, stoning, genocide, concubines, women as inferior and chattel, slavery, and of course against homosexuality are the norm in much of the Old Testament.

I'm sure Southern slaveowners rationalized slavery from Bible passages, do any of you support slavery? It's in the Bible after all, you should!

Homosexuality is the modern day equivalent of that issue.

I've always wondered, the Bible has over 40 known authors.
They actually don't agree on a lot.
The main figure of Christianity is Jesus, and He didn't elucidate much on sexuality, but seemed to preach gender equality.
St. Paul and the apostles however deviated on this.

Jesus said He never came to change the Law of Moses.
But this can only refer to the Law of Loving the Lord your God in Exodus.
He never married or procreated (unless you're a Gnostic) in violation of Genesis, and Christians did away with the original Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws (although Jesus probably followed them), remarriage and divorce (the only real thing forbidden by Jesus, but clearly allowed in the OT) and many other things. They also baptized eunuchs in Acts, and included people.

The homophobic and misogynistic letters from St Paul (a former Pharisee) cannot carry the same weight as Jesus Himself.

So this makes me wonder: what is a sin?
Who decides?

What did Jesus mean when He said if you even look at a woman in lust you have committed adultery in your heart?

Excerpts from 1 Samuel 18

And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house. Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul. And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.

And Jonathan caused David to swear again, because he loved him: for he loved him as he loved his own soul.

Then Jonathan said to David . . . and as touching the matter which thou and I have spoken of, behold, the LORD be between thee and me for ever.

Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness? For as long as the son of Jesse liveth upon the ground, thou shalt not be established, nor thy kingdom. Wherefore now send and fetch him unto me, for he shall surely die. And Jonathan answered Saul his father, and said unto him, Wherefore shall he be slain? what hath he done? And Saul cast a javelin at him to smite him: whereby Jonathan knew that it was determined of his father to slay David. So Jonathan arose from the table in fierce anger, and did eat no meat the second day of the month: for he was grieved for David, because his father had done him shame.

David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded. And Jonathan said to David, Go in peace, forasmuch as we have sworn both of us in the name of the LORD, saying, The LORD be between me and thee, and between my seed and thy seed for ever. And he arose and departed: and Jonathan went into the city.

How are the mighty fallen in the midst of the battle! O Jonathan, thou wast slain in thine high places.

I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.

Love how the first chapter of Romans identifies gays as haters of God and then in the second chapter suggests those who judge a gay are guilty of being the same.

reply to post by yabbadabbadoooooo


can you quote the exact verse please, and thanks