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A different view on homosexuality from an imperfect Christian

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posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by Endure
 


Hi, Endure,

You are so right. I think the greatest sin is hatred, which leads to not caring about anyone or anything.

Homosexuals just are, take it or leave it - and a lot of homosexuals are the greatest people ever.




posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by Endure
 


Oh no disrespect intended at all.

God is man made as with religion, we needed to explain things that we could not in ancient times and a creator was an easy out.

No one is perfect, no one will ever be, why strive for the impossible? This was put into our heads from religion and from god.

He's not even perfect, why would he expect us to be. He has no worries about what he does, why should we be what he isn't?

We should be ourselves and want to be good people. The golden rule means more than all the commandments combined. Treat people as you would want to be treated.

Doesn't take a god or a religion to understand that.

Pred...



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 01:37 AM
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i think televangilst are bad new bravo OP and cheers for standing up for men that love other men. op i to am saved hardcore bornagain for sometime.us i now look on thousand years of my life and think it was such a pitty to ashamed of myself for want to behave like an animal. after he gave me free will to enjoy the infant possibilitys with creation ie thoughts . i am vering of track flag for you



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 02:45 AM
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Okay, I just had this really weird thought: I am a guy and obviously don't have a vagina, so how would it even be possible for me to lie with another man as with a woman? (that is, assuming if I was the one on the bottom...)


The only other way to look at this is if the Bible was referring to anal sex. Was anal sex between a man and woman okay in the Bible? I don't get it. I thought the sex organs were strictly to be used for procreation only, which is what I thought the whole argument against homosexuality was about with Christians. Now I'm really confused...



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by Endure
reply to post by Arrius
 


Well, I realize that this is the flashpoint question, and tried to avoid the discussion being centered arount this point, as these types of discussions usually do and instead focus on the message of forgiveness and that to hold homosexuals as much worse than any other sinner is just wrong.

That being said, we do have this from God's word:

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

I don't get to decide what is sin or not, He does. I am just trying to get people to quit hating other people, in the name of a loving God. That is deplorable to me.






I believe you forgot a few lines;


20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.




If a man has sex with another man, kill them both



My opinion: No reason at all following any religion that involves a being that demands" this or that- OR ELSE".




posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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I for one am picking up what the OP is throwin' down.

Personally, I think homosexuality is a sin. How much of a sin is not for me to decide, but I imagine it's a case by case thing.

More importantly, I have about a million and one things in my life that I need to work on, so who am I, the imperfect soul that I am, to run around pointing fingers and condemning my fellow sinners? I certainly don't want anyone casting stones at me...


Someone pointed out that it seems homosexuality is the "easy" sin for Christians to single out, while ignoring their own sins. Amen to that! That is exactly true. Live in denial of your own shortcomings by creating an extreme delineation between you and the "real" sinners. Classic human nature.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 12:27 PM
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You are a very level headed christian and I respect you for that.I respect your beliefs even though I don't share them. I am not a christian but I do study many religons.I use to be though, but I found alot of contridictions in the bible from the new testament and old. Old: An eye for an eye. New: Turn the other cheek. Old: an aldulterous shall be stoned to death. New: He who is without sin cast the first stone. And so on and so forth.Homosexuality as christians say is a choice.With the mounting scientific evidence that proves otherwise its becoming more apparent that homosexuality is not. So if "god" created you gay and then sent you to hell for it wouldn't that be yet another contradiction.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Endure

Originally posted by halfoldman
Does that mean that all divorced and remarried people must repent and return to their first marriage partners (or become celibate)?
A divorced woman and anyone who marries her remains an adulterer and thus unrepentant.
So please ask all divorced preachers and politicians or public figures to repent from their remarried lifestyles.
Jesus Himself was very specific on this: Matt 5:31-32.

Also, all female preachers must repent, since a woman may not teach men, and she must learn in silence.
It clearly says so in 1 Timothy 2: 11-14.
Women must also be of modest apparel, without "braided hair, gold, pearl or costly array" (above, verse 9).

These are much more common "sins", so why do they not repent or called to repentance?

So still, only one "sin" is singled out for repentance.

Ironically Jesus said that not all men can receive the teaching on heterosexual marriage, and He divided three classes of "eunuchs" who do not marry women. Only the the second class appears to be a man castrated by men.
The first is: "For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb ..." (Matt 19: 12).
So the truth is in the Bible for me, and I have no need to repent for being gay.


Hey brother, I am not here to judge you. I am here to try and make a reasonable plea to reasonable people to stop hating people because of who they are.


It says all of this and more, and most people don't agree with what it says and don't live it or follow it, thats why i am stumped as to WHY are all these people saying they are Christian and want to have churches that supposedly are based on the bilble. Weirdness.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by calmbutwary
 


do you eat shellfish?

work on sunday?

condone women wearing pants?

wear poly-cotton blends?



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 04:29 PM
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Sorry to break this to you, but there is NO such thing as right or wrong. Right and wrong are both relative terms and what humans deem "good" or "bad" changes over time. We used to think allowing negros to ride a bus was "wrong." What's right in one country is wrong in another.

A thing is only right or wrong because you say it is. A thing is not right or wrong intrinsically.

This is a very difficult concept for most people---and to truly understand it you have to be led through the whole argument.

But let's take "killing" as an example. Not killing is one of the ten commandments. But humans kill all of the time. Is it okay to kill in a war? To kill an intruder in your house that is harming your children? Oh, okay! Yes, now we are saying there are "circumstances" in which it is okay to kill. So that commandment can not be an absolute----- killing is relative, then isn't it?

That's what happens when we try to dictate absolutes to the world. We find many reasons to allow that absolute to be reversed when it suits our needs.

No such thing as an absolute, my friend.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay. Love is love. Do you really think God is going to turn someone away from heaven for loving someone else?

What kind of God would that be?

It would be a judgemental, vengeful God. Those are qualities that are possessed by humans but certainly not a God....



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 04:40 PM
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I had an unfortunate incident happen to me a couple years ago.
I was told by my doctor that i needed to see a proctologist, so a week or so later i went to my new appointment.
I knew right away that something was wrong, during his procedure/probing i noticed that he kept both his hands on my shoulders


Now my question is this, does this make me a sinner and will i be going to hell for something that was out of my control?



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 06:02 PM
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Love should never be a sin. Gender shouldn't stand in the way of love and happiness.

Second line.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 06:23 PM
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Really, this wasn't meant to be a discussion about what is right or wrong, or does God exist. It was more a plea to those who do accept God and His Word to quit hating people for being a "sinner" because they are also sinners, or they wouldn't even need Christ. And also to show those out there that not all Christians are so hateful. The topic of homosexuality was used because it seems to be one that brings out the most hate in Christians, I had just participated in a thread that showed that dynamic all too well.

I am just trying to show what my Lord was about. He didn't hang out with the pious, He hung out with hookers, and adulterers and thieves because they were the ones that needed to be shown God's love because the pious had told them that they weren't loved by God. In fact, He flat out told the "religious" hiearchy at that time that their father was the devil. I don't think He would say any different now.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 06:26 PM
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I like your post and it makes sense, trouble is, homosexuality is undoubtedly part of someone's identity. Many of these people may spend their lives being ridiculed, fighting for rights, trying to live in a world full of bigotry. I actually do agree with your sentiments, problem is when it becomes part of someone's identity it is hard for them to accept that something like this is wrong. I have gay relatives. My sister even has bi tendencies. Does this mean I spend my time bashing them about it? No. They need to come with terms with it themselves.

If we are going to accept that God is true, and his Word is true, then every sin is on equal terms. This is hard for people to understand. If this is to be considered true, then why is sex considered a right for everyone? Many would say, its not fair God made me this way. Ok, you may have a point, from a humanistic standpoint, but do realize there are some people who will never experience love, let alone sex.

People who are born mentally challenged, or die as young children, obviously do not get to experience these things. Therefore, sexual preference is not something someone can use as a reason to say they are justified in what they do.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
I like your post and it makes sense, trouble is, homosexuality is undoubtedly part of someone's identity. Many of these people may spend their lives being ridiculed, fighting for rights, trying to live in a world full of bigotry. I actually do agree with your sentiments, problem is when it becomes part of someone's identity it is hard for them to accept that something like this is wrong. I have gay relatives. My sister even has bi tendencies. Does this mean I spend my time bashing them about it? No. They need to come with terms with it themselves.

If we are going to accept that God is true, and his Word is true, then every sin is on equal terms. This is hard for people to understand. If this is to be considered true, then why is sex considered a right for everyone? Many would say, its not fair God made me this way. Ok, you may have a point, from a humanistic standpoint, but do realize there are some people who will never experience love, let alone sex.

People who are born mentally challenged, or die as young children, obviously do not get to experience these things. Therefore, sexual preference is not something someone can use as a reason to say they are justified in what they do.


But you know what is at work there, it isn't their fault for feeling justified. Forces have been at work a long time to convince all men that their sins are ok, and to build a climate that encourages them. Remember the quote "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do."

I mean they say "If it is wrong why was I born this way?" I was also born the same way, a sinner. Just as they see that they had these lusts for the same sex from as early as they can remember, I see that I had lusts for women (the opposite sex to me) since as early as I can remember. Both of these "birth conditions" lead us to sin, so it isn't different at all really.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by Endure
 


No I understand that. I was making a distinction between "sexual impulses" and other sins. Clearly some people feel that sex is a right for them and so, if God made them this way, then its ok for them to continue. On the contrary, this is also a reason for them to reject God because they feel no loving God would make them this way. This is why I gave an example of those who never get to experience sex. Nice post.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
reply to post by Endure
 


No I understand that. I was making a distinction between "sexual impulses" and other sins. Clearly some people feel that sex is a right for them and so, if God made them this way, then its ok for them to continue. On the contrary, this is also a reason for them to reject God because they feel no loving God would make them this way. This is why I gave an example of those who never get to experience sex. Nice post.


Ty sir, and I love your screen name



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by open_eyeballs
reply to post by Endure
 


How about this. I would like to know if this is a "sin."

A lesbian couple. They love each other. They believe strongly in Christianity or any Abrahamic religion that considers sleeping with the same sex a sin. So they never perform a sexual act with each other. Yet they live their lives as any normal couple. Kiss, hold hands eat and sleep in the same bed (again reiterating) subtract the sexual part.

What would scripture say to such a couple? Still sinful? Shall their intestines boil in the depths of hell with the murderers and molesters?


Excellent post Eyeballs, the original post was more sinful to God than homosexuality, get over it people, those are 'mankind's' interpretations, based on his prejudices, greed, need for power and control. These passages and the book in total is a political document, where the emphasis is on the control of the people and the subjugation of women. Wheres the almighty love in this. This is human stuff not God's



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by Anam Gra

Originally posted by open_eyeballs
reply to post by Endure
 


the original post was more sinful to God than homosexuality,


Wow, that is a powerful statement.


Brings to mind something from the book of Enoch, that Wisdom was sent to Earth, and had to return because it could not find anyplace to dwell.
edit on 17-11-2010 by Endure because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by Endure
 


By bizarre coincidence, I was discussing this very topic earlier this evening.

I currently attend a weekly bible study (which, by the way, I am enjoying and finding very interesting) in order to learn more about Christian beliefs and God. I am also a practicing homosexual.

At my request, the topic for the last 3 weeks has been sin and whether all sins are equal. My primary motive was to establish and understand why it appears that homosexuality seems to be "selected" as a sin of note.

After reading passages and discussing, our conclusion was similar to yours: sin is sin, whatever it is (apart from the unpardonable sin). There are deeper dimensions regarding true repentance and indulgence - but ultimately all purposeful or conscious sins have the same spiritual consequences, regardless of the moral "rating" we assign it in society.

I really enjoyed our discussions and now understand so much more about the Christian belief and basis.

One thing I would say is that I often used to select one or two verses of the bible and use them to counter-argue some of the propositions put to me. It's been very interesting to learn more about how background, detail and other aspects of the bible come into play when putting verses into perspective. I'd encourage others to accept that some things can't be taken in isolation and to learn more about both background and rationale - if only from a philosophical perspective. I'll certainly be taking my own advice in future when it comes to quotes from both Bible and Koran.

While we may not agree with what some belief systems consider as rights, wrongs and rules; I've certainly found it interesting and beneficial to find out what exactly is believed and why - rather than base my judgments on the ignorant and possibly bigoted "representatives" I often seem to meet


Peace & understanding



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