Iraq War footage (graphic)

Devilwasp, you seem like an honourable person, BUT I don't think you get it!

Without going on and on, the Iraqi was either faking it or appeared wounded. He and his mates had just engaged those marines 'from inside the mosque'! That act alone, is illegal under the Geneva Convention that most of you armchair warriors are screaming about! The marines, quite naturally, won the firefight, assaulted the mosque and dealt with any threat as they saw fit.

(The only problem with their actions, was the fact that the officer, SNCO or section commander allowed the fcuking cameras to follow their every action. So not only have this section of marines the enemy to contend with, they've also got extra baggage to lug around. Baggage in war can cost lives - ask the common grunt about a little unwinnable war called Viet Nam!)

This camera crew recorded something they did not understand and the reporter did his job and reported on what he thought he saw - a defenceless, unarmed Iraqi 'freedom-fighter being shot by an 'out of control, gun-ho US marine'.

Bull#! Trouble with the bloody yanks, they invented this fcuking PC crap. Now, they are drowning in political correctness to such an extent, that they allow fcuking TV cameras into battle?

So what's happened? Camera crew and reporter see and transmit something they don't understand or (more likely) want to stir the #, and Hey Presto!

Fcuking liberal press and 'do-gooders' back in the Bad Old US of A, want this guy's balls delivered, toasted and fried on a fcuking plate!

When are the yanks going to learn? You lost Viet Nam because of the press and you'll loose in Iraq for 2 reasons.

1. 'Peace through superior firepower' - does not work and, as you have discovered to your cost, only by 'hearts and minds' will you win over the decent Iraqis.

2. Get the fcuking press off the battlefield, out of Iraq if necessary, so that your marines can get on with their job without the fear of reprisals due to some fcuk with an axe to grind!

Sorry, I think I'm loosing the plot. But I get to fcuking angry!

If you want to get an idea about what war can do to the human body, try and get hold of a training video titled 'Army Medicine in Viet Nam'.

There are a couple of scenes gory enough for even the most 'battle hardened' of you armchair warriors!

A battlefield amputation (at an aid post) with a 'woodsaw'!

A black guy scrubbed with wire wool and caustic soda to remove napalm!

Ya got to see it to believe it. Or how about the one of the guy having a bullet removed from his eye?

You also have to remember that this is 10 seconds of film from whatever was going on.
You don't know.
I don't know.

For all we know, that guy just threw a grenade and forgot to pull the pin which the americans thought was funny.

Or the americans grabbed his wife and kids off the street and told that guy to run or they would shoot his family because they needed some target practice.

It can really go both ways.

We just don't know.

War is hell.

how sick the american army can be he..

how sick the american army can be he..

that's an interesting take.
Maybe they should have cut off their heads...oh wait...maybe some iraqi CIVILIANS heads...hell hang em from a bridge and drag em through the streets.....make sure you get it all on camera.

Deny Ignorance.

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by devilwasp
there was time and the means to disarm him. so why didnt they?
trigger happy gets you and your squad killed.
marines shouldnt do that.
they have a right to retaliate and engage but not slauter

Look we only say what 15 sec of footage not the start and the beginning. We were NOT there. This is exactly the kind of arm chair quarterbacking that went on in teh Vietnam war. The guy was in a war zone. He was armed. He pointed the gun at our troops. Our troops have to be able to protect themselves. Do you want to be the guy that goes out to make sure he is only wounded? As I said above, it is a war. Its not a warm and fuzzy video game

AMEN....................i agree...........you CAN'T second guess something that you have no comprehension of..........you don't know what happened prior to the video picking up............if the guys had guns and had pointed them at the marines..............then that was a HUGE MISTAKE.........they sealed their fate at that point.............

don't second guess them at this point.

SEMPER FI
angie

Originally posted by fritz
Devilwasp, you seem like an honourable person, BUT I don't think you get it!

Without going on and on, the Iraqi was either faking it or appeared wounded. He and his mates had just engaged those marines 'from inside the mosque'! That act alone, is illegal under the Geneva Convention that most of you armchair warriors are screaming about! The marines, quite naturally, won the firefight, assaulted the mosque and dealt with any threat as they saw fit.

(The only problem with their actions, was the fact that the officer, SNCO or section commander allowed the fcuking cameras to follow their every action. So not only have this section of marines the enemy to contend with, they've also got extra baggage to lug around. Baggage in war can cost lives - ask the common grunt about a little unwinnable war called Viet Nam!)

This camera crew recorded something they did not understand and the reporter did his job and reported on what he thought he saw - a defenceless, unarmed Iraqi 'freedom-fighter being shot by an 'out of control, gun-ho US marine'.

Bull#! Trouble with the bloody yanks, they invented this fcuking PC crap. Now, they are drowning in political correctness to such an extent, that they allow fcuking TV cameras into battle?

So what's happened? Camera crew and reporter see and transmit something they don't understand or (more likely) want to stir the #, and Hey Presto!

Fcuking liberal press and 'do-gooders' back in the Bad Old US of A, want this guy's balls delivered, toasted and fried on a fcuking plate!

When are the yanks going to learn? You lost Viet Nam because of the press and you'll loose in Iraq for 2 reasons.

1. 'Peace through superior firepower' - does not work and, as you have discovered to your cost, only by 'hearts and minds' will you win over the decent Iraqis.

2. Get the fcuking press off the battlefield, out of Iraq if necessary, so that your marines can get on with their job without the fear of reprisals due to some fcuk with an axe to grind!

How do you know he was fakeing it, could have been he was just an inocent bystander or an iraqi militant or even just an iraqi man angry at america.
Look I'm not going to get drawn into an arguement over this, do you really think the media hate the military?
You cant admit wrong things are done in war by both sides, the press show a diffrent view than the propaganda supplied by the military.
Whats not to understand, they shot him.
Thats it.
This can go both ways , you support yours and i support mine, you cant change mine and there is NO way I can change yours.
Think what you want, judge it yourself those are the rights the people in that video are gaurding.

What I find to be really ironic here is that there's a chance that these mensas can come back to the U.S. after the war is over (whenever that is), and get a job as police officers in your city and mine. That really gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling all over. Believe it or not, a majority of these morons are not heroes at all.

Peace

Still don't get it, do you?

Look, the Iraqi's opened fire from a mosque - illegal under Geneva Convention - then reaped the whirlwind! [Nobody condemned them, have they? Oh no! Lets slag off the yanks, poor bastard - just for doing his job! AND I'm no yank lover, believe me!]

Marines won the firefight, assaulted the mosque, mopped up and re-orged inside the mosque.

So they slotted a 'wounded' Iraqi or a 'faking' Iraqi or whatever! Who the fcuk cares?!

In my professional opinion, the guy represented a serious threat to the marines, so they slotted him.

Even the most bloodthirsty of US marines will not slot a wounded man or a 'non-combatant' in cold blood. There was OBVIOUSLY a reason why this yank killed the Iraqi otherwise he wouldn't have done it, would he?

It's only you bloody armchair warriors and the PC brigade back in the States that say this guy has done wrong.

Those of you that have never had the terrible responsibility of taking another man's life, are alive to state your views because people have fought and died for you to express those views.

No problem!

But for God's sake, leave this guy alone. Stop hounding him for DOING HIS JOB!

That's what he's paid to do, kill fcuking Iraqis. LIVE WITH IT!

IF he's done wrong - though how they can work that out, I'll never know, 'cause 'they' were'nt there, then the poor bastard will probably do 10-20 at Leavenworth!

I can tell you all something else. Whatever happens, I know one thing. He'll carry the can for whatever went on. The press, Civil Action Teams and the Politically Correct Brigade will see to that.

Originally posted by fritz
Still don't get it, do you?

Nethier do you from my point of view.

Look, the Iraqi's opened fire from a mosque - illegal under Geneva Convention - then reaped the whirlwind! [Nobody condemned them, have they? Oh no! Lets slag off the yanks, poor bastard - just for doing his job! AND I'm no yank lover, believe me!]

Marines won the firefight, assaulted the mosque, mopped up and re-orged inside the mosque.

Do these people even know what the geneva convention IS?

So they slotted a 'wounded' Iraqi or a 'faking' Iraqi or whatever! Who the fcuk cares?!

Probably every medic in a 5 mile radius.

In my professional opinion, the guy represented a serious threat to the marines, so they slotted him.

What threat was he , in your profesional opinion ofcourse, to the team?

Even the most bloodthirsty of US marines will not slot a wounded man or a 'non-combatant' in cold blood. There was OBVIOUSLY a reason why this yank killed the Iraqi otherwise he wouldn't have done it, would he?

Do you know that every US marine feels,thinks,decides and thinks the same?

It's only you bloody armchair warriors and the PC brigade back in the States that say this guy has done wrong.

I am in scotland and i dont callmyself an "armchair" warrior since i am prepping myself to join the services myself.

Those of you that have never had the terrible responsibility of taking another man's life, are alive to state your views because people have fought and died for you to express those views.
[/qutoe]
Yeah, they fought and died to allow us those freedoms no matter what they where.

No problem!

But for God's sake, leave this guy alone. Stop hounding him for DOING HIS JOB!

Is it his job to shoot an unarmed man who is on the ground wounded?
Do they get taught in training, "this is what you do when he is wounded and unarmed. You put a 5.56 round into his skull?"
His methods are questionable, you might not agree hell you may be right but its our right and our freedom to question every goddammmed thing that happens!

That's what he's paid to do, kill fcuking Iraqis. LIVE WITH IT!

He's paid to defend his country, if that means killing then he will.

IF he's done wrong - though how they can work that out, I'll never know, 'cause 'they' were'nt there, then the poor bastard will probably do 10-20 at Leavenworth!

"They"I think you mean are the MP's?
The guys that go out and get evidence from everywhere before they charge a man.

I can tell you all something else. Whatever happens, I know one thing. He'll carry the can for whatever went on. The press, Civil Action Teams and the Politically Correct Brigade will see to that.

What do you want us to think?
Do you want us to think like we did back in pre WW1?
If you do then I cannot agree with you.

Devilwasp, we have escalated from fencing to crossing sabres. That's good! I do so love a strong debate - as long as I win!

No, seriously Devilwasp. The points you raise are full of their own merit and I for one will never go against the grain and, YES I do so understand your point of view and whilst I strongly disagree with them, I DO know where you're coming from.

In the 70's, I did 3 x 9 month tours in a little country that nobody had ever heard of. Oman. Apart from the major towns and Muscat the capital, Oman is populated by nomadic tribesmen. Oman situated on the Plain, to the east of Saudi Arabia where it's exposed to wind and rain, and at times, it felt like Pentonville or Alcatraz.

We [the British] were tasked, by the Sultan, to win the 'hearts and minds' of the people who objected to the Sultan's rule. These people [as is the case the world over] were infiltrated with Yemeni 'advisers' backed by Egypt and the then Soviet Union.

These people were known as the Adoo. Not the usual collection of 'ragheads', but well trained well organised - just badly advised and let.

To cut a very long story short, after the SAS kicked the crap out of the Adoo at Mirbat, the fight sort of went out of them.

The one thing I learnt about an Arab Devilwasp was, he has a bloody long memoury, will not take any # from anybody and will, whenever or wherever possible, take revenge. Arabs are fanatical fighters and as such, they should never be underesteimated. [Yanks take note!]

This is why the poor bloody marines in Viet Nam had such a hard time. They could not get their heads round the fact that not everybody wanted to kow-tow to the corrupt govenment in Saigon.

Neither could they understand how a little girl could walk up to them and blow them and herself to pieces with a home made bomb, or that local viet cong could charge through withering machinegun, mortar, and shell fire to run into a bunker and blow him or herself up. It was simply beyond them!

Now Devilwasp, we come full circle. We prop up the yanks in a war started for all the wrong reasons - USA wants more oil. Simple as that! Oh yes - almost forgot. He also wants to wage war against any country that does not agree with US foreign policy - apart from China and North Korea - because they've got nukes. Watch out Iran!

So, here we are in Iraq. Fighting an unwinnable war, against a people who see US as the Infidel invader, waging war [a Crusade] against the Holy Book - the Koran.

Is it any wonder that these people are fighting for their very existance with everything at their disposal? I think not!

It is not a collection of 'ragtag and bobtail' civvies that are doing the fighting. It is well organised, well led and well executed. Why? Because it is the remnants of the Iraqi army and the Ba'ath Party that is behind these mounting attacks. Oh! Let's not forget the Mullahs who seize on the moment to add their brand of fanatism to the cauldron.

'What threat did he pose?' Enough of a threat to raise a weapon or blow himself and a few marines up?

Devilwasp I can tell you mate that had the reporter and camera not been there, the outcome would have been totally different.

Now my friend, do tell. What Service are you going in and what branch of this service do you hope to serve with? (If you don't want to advertise - send me a U2U - okay?)

Originally posted by fritz
Devilwasp, we have escalated from fencing to crossing sabres. That's good! I do so love a strong debate - as long as I win!

I prefer a claymore or a straight sword myself but sabres will do

No, seriously Devilwasp. The points you raise are full of their own merit and I for one will never go against the grain and, YES I do so understand your point of view and whilst I strongly disagree with them, I DO know where you're coming from.

Good.

In the 70's, I did 3 x 9 month tours in a little country that nobody had ever heard of. Oman. Apart from the major towns and Muscat the capital, Oman is populated by nomadic tribesmen. Oman situated on the Plain, to the east of Saudi Arabia where it's exposed to wind and rain, and at times, it felt like Pentonville or Alcatraz.

We [the British] were tasked, by the Sultan, to win the 'hearts and minds' of the people who objected to the Sultan's rule. These people [as is the case the world over] were infiltrated with Yemeni 'advisers' backed by Egypt and the then Soviet Union.

These people were known as the Adoo. Not the usual collection of 'ragheads', but well trained well organised - just badly advised and let.

To cut a very long story short, after the SAS kicked the crap out of the Adoo at Mirbat, the fight sort of went out of them.

The one thing I learnt about an Arab Devilwasp was, he has a bloody long memoury, will not take any # from anybody and will, whenever or wherever possible, take revenge. Arabs are fanatical fighters and as such, they should never be underesteimated. [Yanks take note!]

Oh yes i have heard of thier long memories and fierce fighting being as long and worse than our own scottish english thing.
Oh and mate i was going to quote you next 3 or 4 paragraphs of stuff but would take too long, so here's my take.
Good mate, i agree totaly.
So your saying they shot him to protect the camera crew?
Really?
This brings a whole diffrent side to the story....please elaborate....

Now my friend, do tell. What Service are you going in and what branch of this service do you hope to serve with? (If you don't want to advertise - send me a U2U - okay?)

Royal navy and/or royal marines for a while....I mean if i join the navy I HAVE to go for the comando test like.
Warfare branch, if i cant get that or dont like it i go for ethier air or marine engineering branch..

Devilwasp - surely u is trying to take the pssi out of me?!

Protect the camera crew - u have got to be joking! They should have slotted them!

Instead, they slotted that 'poor', 'down trodden', 'undernourished', 'illiterate', 'frightened', 'wounded' Iraqi 'terrorist'. OR, was he a 'Ba'athist Party member', an 'ex-Republican Guard', or was he just a plain old Iraqi soldier [hiding behind civilian clothes] defending his country from an invading [infidel] army who are engaged in an illegal war, hell bent on illegal government change [by military means]?

Fact is Devilwasp, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, did something pretty stupid and paid the price.

FACT He and his mates opened fire from a Mosque.

FACT That is an illegal act of war under the terms of the Geneva Convention.

FACT The squids carried out a textbook attack an an enemy held position. They won the firefight, then, using 'fire and maneouvre', they assaulted the enemy position, gained the objective, mopped up enemy resistence, re-orged etc, etc, etc. What's wrong with that?

Obviously, the marine who slotted the Iraqi will maintain that he posed a serious threat.

I still think it was done in the heat of the moment and NOT IN COLD BLOOD as that would make it murder and, if it was murder, then he should pay the price. SIMPLE

Originally posted by devilwasp

I am in scotland and i dont callmyself an "armchair" warrior since i am prepping myself to join the services myself.

You are the worst type of armchair warrior, a 16 year old kid who has never been in combat dispensing advice to those who have.
So what if you're ' prepping ' yourself for the military. You haven't served in a combat theater, ever. You'll piss yourself the first time your under fire and then you try and get out as quick as possible. Your machismo is laughable or more to the point just pathetic.

Oh BTW aren't some British soldiers up for prisoner abuse - Scottish aren't they ?


[edit on 6-2-2005 by rogue1]

Originally posted by rogue1

You are the worst type of armchair warrior, a 16 year old kid who has never been in combat dispensing advice to those who have.

So what your now saying I cant exspress my opinion?
[quot]
So what if you're ' prepping ' yourself for the military. You haven't served in a combat theater, ever. You'll piss yourself the first time your under fire and then you try and get out as quick as possible. Your machismo is laughable or more to the point just pathetic.

WTF, most british service men before 9/11 didnt get a shot in action!
I probably WOULD piss myself if i came under fire just like every one else when they first go into battle.
Fritz you've been under fire does everybody not go "oh s**t!
"machismo" , for crying out loud I dont think I could take the field work I never said I could! If I did I would be joining the marines or the army not the navy!
I'm passing ym opinion and most of the those comments i made before i made when i was young and ignorant!
Hell I still ignorant to a degree I will admit that , will you?

Oh BTW aren't some British soldiers up for prisoner abuse - Scottish aren't they ?
[edit on 6-2-2005 by rogue1]

....Right....scottish soldiers from england.....right......

Fritz, I wasnt trying to argue the point I was actually honestly asking the questions...

[edit on 6-2-2005 by devilwasp]

HANG ON A MINUTE, WILL YOU?

I assume, Rogue 1, from YOUR rantings, that you've been there and done that.

A simple question, old boy - where and when. If your reply is across the water in NI, then I'm afraid that just dont cut it with me. If you say Bosnia or Kosovo, then perhaps you is getting warmer.

If you is a veteren of Gulf War 1, then you is entitled to have a 'go' at young Devilwasp. BUT, if you is a veteren of GW1 as a remf, then that disqualifies you!

Devilwasp, to you I say ignore these ramblings, these snipes by others on this site.

You are young but luckily for you, you will learn the facts of life. Do not join the Grey Funnel Line. All you'll land up doing is riding across the English Channel on some stupid P & O ferry [providing it gets out of port]

No, my boy. Be as a man amongst men. Go and seek out danger, wherever she lies. Have faith in your abilities and become at worst - a Marine or a Para.

Serve 3 years, then and only then, should you apply for the SAS [best] or SBS [2nd best].

As those crap hat yanks would say, 'Be all you can be!'

THis behavior is to be expected of soldiers. Soldiers and warriors are from the lower rungs of society and that is why they are sent into combat.

What really pisses people off about the whole situation is the fact that it is these kids and officers who couldn't pass middle school algebra that are representing America and invading Mesopotamia for the sake of Jews. I have often wondered whether many of the later European Immigrants into the U.S. weren't half Jewish themselves (based on looks, crass behaviors, poor decision-making capabilities etc.). When I was young I thought that this was the reason for the Holocaust: specifically because the European gene pool was getting so fragmented and the West wanted to continue the fragmentation and the Germans wanted to maintain purity.

Anyway I digress. The video is not shocking if you take the facts of the parties into account. There is a general desire to denigrate what is respectable in these soldier's ideologies and this is reflected in all of our culture.

Originally posted by fritz
HANG ON A MINUTE, WILL YOU?

I assume, Rogue 1, from YOUR rantings, that you've been there and done that.

A simple question, old boy - where and when. If your reply is across the water in NI, then I'm afraid that just dont cut it with me. If you say Bosnia or Kosovo, then perhaps you is getting warmer.

If you is a veteren of Gulf War 1, then you is entitled to have a 'go' at young Devilwasp. BUT, if you is a veteren of GW1 as a remf, then that disqualifies you!

Ahem, why would I have been to those places, I'm not British.
I've served in Somalia, East Timor and Rwanda with the Australian Army. Oh yeah BTW, all 3 places I took incoming.

Rwanda and East Timor eh? Guess those nasty little bludgers had lots of kit to keep you Aussies busy. Not trying to denegrate your efforts mate but unless they had lots to eat since we Brits sorted the place out, I don't see how they could have the energy to buggar you about?

As to Somalia, well mate, I guess Mr Addide gave it to the yanks in spades, so to speak and hopefully you didn't loose any of yer mates sorting out the mess the yanks left you in. Respect mate, respect!

I've heard from a mate who's SF in Afghanistan . He has worked very closely with SASR and reckons they're top notch. [should be, as they're trained same way ours are, although our do a tougher selection]

Originally posted by fritz
Rwanda and East Timor eh? Guess those nasty little bludgers had lots of kit to keep you Aussies busy. Not trying to denegrate your efforts mate but unless they had lots to eat since we Brits sorted the place out, I don't see how they could have the energy to buggar you about?

The Brits ? What did you do there ?
When we were put on standby to go, we were told to expect resistance from up to 30 000 militia men not to mention the tens of thousands of TNI whose intentions were unclear.


I've heard from a mate who's SF in Afghanistan . He has worked very closely with SASR and reckons they're top notch. [should be, as they're trained same way ours are, although our do a tougher selection]

The SASR saw much more action than the Brit SAS in Afghanistan, for some reason the Americans preferred to use our men.