Iraq War footage (graphic)

Just looked back at one of my previous posts re. WP. I quoted what I thought was the Geneva convention. In reality it was the Hague convention (which the US did sign). They never signed the Geneva convention article ref. treatment of PoWs or weapons (note that there were several ammendments of the Geneva convention, of which this was one). The Geneva convention prohibits the use of flame weapons, which the Hague convention does not, hence the US still uses flame-throwers etc, while the UK does not.

Sorry about any confusion

“I'm not American, my ignorant friend”

Ignorant?

“You are the minority. Our country is full of God fearing, law abiding and honest folk who know what’s going on, they’re just busy working.”

Nothing in the sentence implies your origin, only your misguided opinions.

“denigrate” in not an word by the why, not in English.

“war is all about circumstances beyond willful control”

LOL! I would love to see what will happen to a combat soldier when he gets caught saying something as stupid as that in the presence of his CO! Talk about morale.

Oh yeah, I’m seeing a drill sergeant yelling; “your survival is entirely a matter of luck!”, or even better, “after we returned concentrated fire enemy forces retreated do to circumstances beyond our willful control!”

“My friend, unfortunately you don't have any idea where I'm coming from - I don't think you'll ever find yourself in a position even close to what I've been in and what many thousands of coalition soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan have been experiencing over the last few years.”

What’s the base for that “opinion”?

This one is just precious;

"Like I've said, unless you were actually there, you can't judge what happened, who knows what happened a minute before the tape or 5 or an hour.”

Other then that anybody who knows his business DOES know, the point is that the “who knows what happened” is for the Court-Martial Panel to investigate. That is EXACTLY what people who KNOW have stated in this thread, while stating that what IS shown depict clear cut murder. The fact that there is no Court-Martial investigation of the incident so far says a lot about the current condition of our professional army.

”I haven't served in these 2 countries, but war is the same everywhere and I have seen war.”, and “^^^ Look I'm not into comparing shoe sizes. I chose not to talk about what I've done or where I've been. I don't mind you doubting me.”

That’s all fine, we all have crap that we would rather not talk about. You say you’ve been under fire, in fact “shoot at”, and you don’t mind people doubting that. Who knows, maybe you’re a bigger man, but even in his age my gramps (Airborne Recon) would “disagree” with anybody who doubted that he volunteered to be the lone man to go on a recon mission of a German occupied ville, that he came under heavy sniper and MG42 fire and came back alive to bring back vital enemy strength and position intel which saved lives.

Here is a simple basic training question though. What is the first thing a soldier is trained to do when he comes under small arms fire from lets say +/- 100m’s out, while there is no immediate cover in his position?

Since it’s pretty easy to look up if you know where, just in case, when you’re clearing a bombed out building how would you report a discovery of a smeared oil slick by the window or a whole in the wall?

How about what works better then a grenade for clearing a barricaded room?

I’m sure PaddyInf is smiling right about now, because he’s got you pegged all the same.

PaddyInf, when you were in Bosnia did you ever have to “pop the knob” or had the time to leave it to engineers? Devious bastards, putting a glass jar grenade on a door knob was obviously meant for the locals.

Since computer games are still made by guys that never fired a weapon, rouge1 probably thinks that soldiers kick doors in like cops.

Originally posted by iskander
“I'm not American, my ignorant friend”

Ignorant?

“You are the minority. Our country is full of God fearing, law abiding and honest folk who know what’s going on, they’re just busy working.”

Blah, you implied that I'm american - what's this ' our ' you refer to, certainly not me So that's why I pointed it out.

“denigrate” in not an word by the why, not in English.

LOL, well that's what happens when yout alk to the uneducated I guess Why don't you go and look it up, heard of a dictionary
LMAO - I really did find this very funny.
Well, not my fault if you like denigrating yourself.

“war is all about circumstances beyond willful control”

LOL! I would love to see what will happen to a combat soldier when he gets caught saying something as stupid as that in the presence of his CO! Talk about morale.

Even the best laid plans don't survive after the first minute of contact. So yeah, I stand by what I said If everything went to plan, no soldiers would die would they, if everything was under control

"Like I've said, unless you were actually there, you can't judge what happened, who knows what happened a minute before the tape or 5 or an hour.”

Other then that anybody who knows his business DOES know, the point is that the “who knows what happened” is for the Court-Martial Panel to investigate. That is EXACTLY what people who KNOW have stated in this thread, while stating that what IS shown depict clear cut murder. The fact that there is no Court-Martial investigation of the incident so far says a lot about the current condition of our professional army.

Ahem, don't wet your pants. Like I said how the hell would you know the circumstances Have you been investigating it LMAO - of course not.

That’s all fine, we all have crap that we would rather not talk about. You say you’ve been under fire, in fact “shoot at”, and you don’t mind people doubting that. Who knows, maybe you’re a bigger man, but even in his age my gramps (Airborne Recon) would “disagree” with anybody who doubted that he volunteered to be the lone man to go on a recon mission of a German occupied ville, that he came under heavy sniper and MG42 fire and came back alive to bring back vital enemy strength and position intel which saved lives.

Hmm, like I said, I don't bignote myself. Seems you may need to though, ego problems

PaddyInf, when you were in Bosnia did you ever have to “pop the knob” or had the time to leave it to engineers? Devious bastards, putting a glass jar grenade on a door knob was obviously meant for the locals.

LMAO, what you read an article did you Your knowlege is ... oh so impressive.

Since computer games are still made by guys that never fired a weapon, rouge1 probably thinks that soldiers kick doors in like cops.

My god.....I am astounded by your whit LMAO. Sorry bud, I don't play computer games

PS. That's how you quote, as above


[edit on 12-11-2005 by rogue1]

Iskander, sorry to contradict you but soldiers do kick doors open. What were you thinking they do, wait for the janitor to come unlock the door for them?

Watch the linked movie, to back my claim I cut & pasted a couple door breaching footage.

media.putfile.com... (10 MB, 00:03:49)

1. In first clip you see a tank busting a cap in the lock of a steel gate.
2. Door breaching charge with 30 second fuse.
3. US Marine kicking open a wooden door.
4. More door kicking and then smashing the uncooperative door.
5. and most importantly, in last clip you learn how to breach a porta-potty door open!

Enjoy!


[edit on 13-11-2005 by ufia]

you guys with military expierence, which aspect of combat have you faced? urban, conventional open combat, anti-insurgency, etc? and did your units face heavy losses? i ask because obviously not every situation is the same and results in different reactions.

first off, it bugs me when people call Marines soldiers, because soldiers are army boys.

second of all, he deserved to be shot because he was an enemy combatant who did not follow the guidelines of the geneva convention, and therefore does not deserve to be treated as an OpFor that did

I know where you are going, but it's simply an adjective to make the sentence sound more clearer to the common reader. It's not meant to diminish you. Not every Marines are offended to be called a soldier.

Originally posted by deltaboy
wen u are killing the enemy and u are young, im sure u be cheering. killing the bad guys sounds like fun. and the area is hostile? the guy laying there with a gun makes me think its already hostile.

Dont make excuses.

If i go out and shoot a guy do i deserve to die or go to jail?

He is clearly injured and unable to move under its own power.

Let me quote what they said.

"hell yeah that was awersome , lets do it again"

He has the thrist for blood now

Originally posted by rogue1Cheering and laughing also happen as a release from extreme emotional feelings such as those experienced when confronted with mortal danger ( ie. COMBAT ). Like I've said, unless you were actually there, you can't judge what happened, who knows what happened a minute before the tape or 5 or an hour.

Cheering and laughing might have released their "fear"

But saying. "It was a good feeling, lets doing again"

It doesn't sound like he was fearing to do that again

Yeap.. I'm with cw on this one..
I don't know what clause(s) of the Geneva Convention this guy was not following..please enlighten me..

Originally posted by firstplacerifles
second of all, he deserved to be shot because he was an enemy combatant who did not follow the guidelines of the geneva convention, and therefore does not deserve to be treated as an OpFor that did

Firstly, exactly what part of the Geneva convention did he not follow?

Secondly, even if he did break it, the Marines are still required to abide by the rules of armed conflict. The rules are not voluntary, but are LAW. The ability to win the battle while still applying to these rules is what seperates the professionals from the amatures. These boys were acting like amatures.

Just pointing out....the guy is rising..
Do you think they could have mistaken that for trying to reach the weapon?

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by deltaboy
wen u are killing the enemy and u are young, im sure u be cheering. killing the bad guys sounds like fun. and the area is hostile? the guy laying there with a gun makes me think its already hostile.

Dont make excuses.

If i go out and shoot a guy do i deserve to die or go to jail?
[If you are not at WAR or not in defence of your life or a loved one then is you would need to go to jail.]
He is clearly injured and unable to move under its own power.
[It looked like he could at lest hold himself up. God nows what He was doing with the hand We could not see. This guy that they shot does not care that he is going to die. They have make that clear by making trapes out of themselfs before! ]
Let me quote what they said.

"hell yeah that was awersome , lets do it again"
[ This is a man that just shot some one and stop him from killing himself and others. It is a release of fear that You would not know. ]
He has the thrist for blood now
[ No........Later that day or night He will go someplace and cry. It is part of the step down from what is happened.]

Originally posted by rogue1Cheering and laughing also happen as a release from extreme emotional feelings such as those experienced when confronted with mortal danger ( ie. COMBAT ). Like I've said, unless you were actually there, you can't judge what happened, who knows what happened a minute before the tape or 5 or an hour.

Cheering and laughing might have released their "fear"

But saying. "It was a good feeling, lets doing again"
[He is trying to make it work in his mind, He might have to shot someone to save himself or others once more ] [I know..... how is sounds but you have to have been there or have been underfire your self to konw this.]
It doesn't sound like he was fearing to do that again
[Nope you get better at it....... but I bet He will not be saying a thing the next time. But He is still not a killer..... he is at WAR. ]

P.S. ChinaWhite, please do not think that I am belittleing at all!
War is Hell, War sucks! Man needs to learn from his past.

[edit on 13-11-2005 by Mr101Hazardous]

“LOL, well that's what happens when yout alk to the uneducated I guess”

I did look up denigrate.

You’re right there, considering your sloppy writing I simply though you’ve misspelled degenerate. Live and learn.

“Hmm, like I said, I don't bignote myself. Seems you may need to though, ego problems”

If you don’t get the difference between ego and being proud of your heritage, it’s your shortcoming. I’m proud as hell of my family and ancestors.

Everything else in your reply is rubbish. I asked simple questions, you turned defensive and opted for childish antics, a reflex of youth and inexperience.

You don’t know the answer, that’s all.

Take care of your self.

BTW is this a sort of role playing forum by any chance? I’ve heard that some forums are specifically for playing out fantasies. I might be in a wrong place.

[edit on 13-11-2005 by Mr101Hazardous]

Ok, I didn't read all the other posts, but, they did the right thing to kill him I believe. As mentioned above, he could have been strapped with a bomb or he could have been bait to lead the Marines into a ambush. You never know. And the part about them cheering, you would cheer too if you killed an enemy combatant that was trying to take your life.

Originally posted by iskander
“LOL, well that's what happens when yout alk to the uneducated I guess”

I did look up denigrate.

You’re right there, considering your sloppy writing I simply though you’ve misspelled degenerate. Live and learn.

LOL, what... don't you speak english or do you just have a poor command of the language A childish insult what more is there to say.

“Hmm, like I said, I don't bignote myself. Seems you may need to though, ego problems”
If you don’t get the difference between ego and being proud of your heritage, it’s your shortcoming. I’m proud as hell of my family and ancestors.

Some people would say they are the same. Then again they aren't your achievements.

Everything else in your reply is rubbish. I asked simple questions, you turned defensive and opted for childish antics, a reflex of youth and inexperience.

You don’t know the answer, that’s all.

Ahem, your questions were childish and I didn't need to answer them, seems other people did though and proved you wrong again. I think people here know, who the child is

Now could you please stop your tantrums and stay with the thread.

[edit on 13-11-2005 by rogue1]

You got a long ways to go kid. It is true that youth is wasted on the young. Just remember that it’s never too late to listen and make the right choices, if you don’t, get used to being ignored.

Achievements are truly appreciated by people who know what it takes, people who know the price of sacrifice. Since you think ego and integrity are the same you wouldn’t know what that means, but you can if you try.

“LOL, what... don't you speak english or do you just have a poor command of the language A childish insult what more is there to say.”
The last part of the sentence summarizes the first. I’m natively bilingual and back in the days have traveled abroad on gov assignments to translate and interpret. In the world of serious negotiations there is no place for people who keep lists of power words.
“Ahem, your questions were childish and I didn't need to answer them”

Please don’t embarrass your self. Be a man, you either know or you don’t. If you don’t, be humble, listen, learn, that’s the quality serious people look for.
There is unintended merit in your “child” remark though. My wife said one time that if I wouldn’t have “drifted” away from my inner child lately, there would be a lot more honesty and healing in our relationship.

I still can’t seem to put aside my regrets, my mistakes and can’t reconcile things I have to live with, knowing all to well that they will never go away, and that I won’t be able to repress them forever.

As for the thread, execution of the wounded man is only one side of the tragedy, the other is that those kids will have to live with it for the rest of their lives, and if they won’t come to terms with what they’ve done it will eat them up and destroy everything around them.

Originally posted by iskander
Achievements are truly appreciated by people who know what it takes, people who know the price of sacrifice. Since you think ego and integrity are the same you wouldn’t know what that means, but you can if you try.

Once more you're off on a tangent. I never said anything at all like this You said you were a translator ( which is highly dubious ), how many negotiations did you stuff up because of your lack of knowledge of the english language not to mention your knowledge of english words. Do you even know what ' integrity ' means ? Didn't think so
I like how you call words which are in common use, but you haven't heard of " power word " LMAO.

I’m natively bilingual and back in the days have traveled abroad on gov assignments to translate and interpret. In the world of serious negotiations there is no place for people who keep lists of power words.

LOL, of course you are Now, why should anyone believe this ? You don't even have a decent command of the english language - not sure what type if interpreter you'd make Tell your fairytales somewhere else



[edit on 14-11-2005 by rogue1]

Originally posted by Ess Why Kay
What exactly did this guy do that he needed to be shot and killed?

exactly...thats a question that CNN wont report on.

CNN is "left" biased, all there stories are edited in a way that makes the US military look bad. its very old.