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Iraq War footage (graphic)

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posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by iskander
Yep. Absolutely mad Jungle/D’nB scene, Rubber Ball, thriving film community which kicks Hollywood’s behind, refreshingly great TV, pricey “congestions tolls”, no parking, cameras EVERYWHERE, and a lot of old folk stuck in the olden Empyreal glory days. East India Company, African safaris’ and such.

Where'd you go? The palace?
BTW, I really wish people would buy a bloody atlas.


Crappy food, thick beer, bloody stakes, but the fresh generation sure as hell knows how to live and let loose.

Did I just about cover it?

No you didnt, look up an atlas and see that england has no empire and hasnt had one in quite a while, the UK might do and have had one but not england.




posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 07:57 AM
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white or red phosphorus ; It is a matter of dispute if the white phosphorus used in a destructive way is to be considerated banned by the O.N.U. treaty on chemical weapons and by the Geneva treaty of 1980.

Basically , the treaty states that it can be used to illuminate positions ; but using the chemical against people is illegal and is a breach of not only the ONU treaty , but the Geneva Conventions and is a war crime.


As is shooting disabled soldiers, when its possible to render Aid.

But hey , the winner allways writes the history books.



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 03:15 PM
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I don't know what the debate is all about. The guy was on the ground, injured, and did not have a weapon in his hands (it was behind him). The rules state clearly that this person is no longer a combatant, and that all efforts are to be made to take him prisoner and treat his injuries. I have been in enough contacts to know of the rush you get when you take out a threat, but neither I nor any of my mates in my section have ever shot a wounded person. We have taken several prisoners, though, and treated many of the enemys wounds (several of which I had caused). What these marines did was unprofessional, inhumane and against military law.

These marines broke the rules, and should be placed in custody for war crimes.

As for the WP debate, legally it can be used for causing smoke, but not as a weapon. We all know that this happens, but the Geneva convention states that flame or burning weapons are prohibited. However, as I have stated before, the US has not signed up to this convention, nor has Iraq.

[edit on 8-11-2005 by PaddyInf]



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 04:26 PM
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depends if he is truly wounded and neutralize to the point dat he aint pulling a grenade or anithing like dat. after all we seen injured insurgents who try to take a couple of more infidel soldiers to paradise with them u know.
remember his back is faced towards the Marines. u could try to go around to see wat he is doing but dat takes time and the Marines pretty much have things to do and move on fast.



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 04:36 PM
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Thanks for adding a bit of reason to this soup mates.

You see here in US, after years of news propaganda it’s to easy for people to forget the concept of law and all reason for that matter. They will try to justify an action how ever horrific it is. because they are scared to death of not coming of as patriotic, while few understand that upholding the law is.

devilwasp, I don’t know what you want from me man. Heathrow was my mid stop when I traveled for my work.

p.s. If anybody wants to star crap about our media propaganda, don’t. I did my bit know all about it, don’t even start.



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 04:46 PM
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“u could try to go around to see wat he is doing but dat takes time and the Marines pretty much have things to do and move on fast.”

Like showing of in front of a camera while laughing their butts silly, and then move on fast to give an interview about how great it felt and that they all just can’t wait to do it again, right?



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by PaddyInf
I don't know what the debate is all about. The guy was on the ground, injured, and did not have a weapon in his hands (it was behind him). The rules state clearly that this person is no longer a combatant, and that all efforts are to be made to take him prisoner and treat his injuries. I have been in enough contacts to know of the rush you get when you take out a threat, but neither I nor any of my mates in my section have ever shot a wounded person. We have taken several prisoners, though, and treated many of the enemys wounds (several of which I had caused). What these marines did was unprofessional, inhumane and against military law.


Where did you serve ? I ask, because if you have seen combat, you would realise that wtaching 15 seconds of footage hardly even begins to describe the circumstances of the action.
How the hell, would you know the situation ?

As we know, the insurgents/terrorists shoot prisoners without a 2nd thought - you can hardly blame the americans for the same. Where is the outrage when thge IRaqi's do it ? BAH.

War is war, it has never been humane and that is a ridiculous word to use.

PS. No offence, but have you actually seen combat ? It doesn't sound like it.




As for the WP debate, legally it can be used for causing smoke, but not as a weapon. We all know that this happens, but the Geneva convention states that flame or burning weapons are prohibited. However, as I have stated before, the US has not signed up to this convention, nor has Iraq.


The US didn't sign th Geneva Convention



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 10:33 PM
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rogue1, no offence but have you been in combat? How old are you? What is your education and profession?

It’s clear that you will not accept a damn thing, so I’ll just post a letter which is actually right on the page with the video.
“Dear Sir;

I saw both the video on the front page and read the letters from the Marines.
Disgusting.
I too, am recently returned from seven months in Iraq, with a Division Cavalry unit. I see nothing to defend in that video and am glad that you have archived it so that others can see it. As a scout with over twenty years in the Army, mostly in combat units, I would say that what is captured on the video appears to be murder and in violation of the Law
of Land Warfare.
This is not how warriors behave but how thugs operate. If the Iraqi man was indeed laying in ambush or setting an IED, then it is entirely appropriate to shoot him and to shoot him until he is no longer a threat. Once he ceased combat operations however, it became the soldiers' job to treat him and give him the same aid they would have one of our wounded soldiers receive.
That's how the Law of Land Warfare works.
To use him as a target and appear so joyful about it demonstrates that murder occurred and not combat operations. That is not a reflection of how callous all the soldiers are or what is encouraged or allowed in units. That unit has a problem. Any commander that glosses over that incident is neglecting his duty.
In the opening days of the war, our medics treated many Iraqi casualties, sometimes heroically. That's what you do. Its the law. I have no love lost for Iraqis, especially after watching the ones so happy to get a handout dance so gleefully in soldier's blood.
Our troops killed plenty, engaging in combat actions. My instructions to soldiers on missions almost always included the words - "if at anytime you feel threatened, shoot, shoot first and shoot center mass." But at no time were any of our soldiers instructed, allowed or countenanced to murder an injured person, be he combatant or not. I took pride that my commander insisted we "keep our mean faces on. We are not here to make
friends" but also insisted on the humane treatment, even recommending our PA for an award solely for working heroically on an Iraqi casualty.
This man had attempted to engage our forces, was shot and shot bad and eventually died. No one was happy that a human died. We understood that if we are to expect to be treated a certain way upon injury or capture, then we must treat the enemy the same way. That's what warriors do.

1SG Perry D. Jefferies
Copperas Cove, TX

www.jeffzed.org”



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 10:50 PM
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^^^^ Ahem so what, one persons complained
I'm sure for everyone like him you can find there are 10 more who would say the opposite.
As I said what the hell can you determine from 15 seconds of video, absolutely nothing. You have no idea of the circumstances, do you. When you get out of that comfortable armchair and actually do something, then maybe your comments may hold some weight.

Have I seen war yes, have I been shot at yes - that's all I'm prepared to say.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 12:44 AM
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When there will be 10 to 1 of 1SG Perry D. Jefferies, then we’ll be in real big trouble, but I know that it isn’t so.

You are the minority. Our country is full of God fearing, law abiding and honest folk who know what’s going on, they’re just busy working.

“As I said what the hell can you determine from 15 seconds of video, absolutely nothing. You have no idea of the circumstances, do you.”

Wait a minute, circumstances? You sure you served?

Circumstances - The sum of determining factors beyond willful control.

I don’t know were you served, but the word “circumstance” is usually used when somebody tucked up and when people end up dead because the “determining factors were beyond willful control.”

If that’s how you srved, you’d probably be the type a fella that would in stead of saying “walked into an ambush”, try to report something like “do to unforeseen circumstances we have lost X in casualties Y in temporarily immobilized.”

I think I know where you’re coming from any way, so no sweat there partner.




posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by rogue1
Where did you serve ? I ask, because if you have seen combat, you would realise that wtaching 15 seconds of footage hardly even begins to describe the circumstances of the action.
How the hell, would you know the situation ?



They had time to cheer over his death that tells me a lot about the situation. You would imagine that the area wouldn't be hostile

[edit on 9-11-2005 by chinawhite]



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite



They had time to cheer over his death that tells me a lot about the situation. You would imagine that the area wouldn't be hostile



wen u are killing the enemy and u are young, im sure u be cheering. killing the bad guys sounds like fun. and the area is hostile? the guy laying there with a gun makes me think its already hostile.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by iskander
When there will be 10 to 1 of 1SG Perry D. Jefferies, then we’ll be in real big trouble, but I know that it isn’t so.

You are the minority. Our country is full of God fearing, law abiding and honest folk who know what’s going on, they’re just busy working.


I'm not American, my ignorant friend




Wait a minute, circumstances? You sure you served?

Circumstances - The sum of determining factors beyond willful control.


Your point being ?
Ahem if you didn't realise ( which of course you don't ), war is all about circumstances beyond willful control



I don’t know were you served, but the word “circumstance” is usually used when somebody tucked up and when people end up dead because the “determining factors were beyond willful control.”

If that’s how you srved, you’d probably be the type a fella that would in stead of saying “walked into an ambush”, try to report something like “do to unforeseen circumstances we have lost X in casualties Y in temporarily immobilized.”


I won't even denegrate myself replying to this



I think I know where you’re coming from any way, so no sweat there partner.



My friend, unfortunately you don't have any idea where I'm coming from - I don't think you'll ever find yourself in a position even close to what I've been in and what many thousands of coalition soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan have been experiencing over the last few years.

I haven't served in these 2 countries, but war is the same everywhere and I have seen war.

[edit on 9-11-2005 by rogue1]



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
War is brutal. The Iraq's set themselves up for this by faking wounded then ambusing troops. Its is tragic, but it is in the middle of a war zone. If you were a marine in that firefight, would you wanted to go and check the guy only to find he was wired to blow etc.???

That was not a playground it was a firefight. Tragic things happen in war.


War or not, there are lines that should never be crossed...



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by chinawhite
They had time to cheer over his death that tells me a lot about the situation. You would imagine that the area wouldn't be hostile


wen u are killing the enemy and u are young, im sure u be cheering. killing the bad guys sounds like fun. and the area is hostile? the guy laying there with a gun makes me think its already hostile.


Cheering and laughing also happen as a release from extreme emotional feelings such as those experienced when confronted with mortal danger ( ie. COMBAT ). Like I've said, unless you were actually there, you can't judge what happened, who knows what happened a minute before the tape or 5 or an hour.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by Figher Master FIN
War or not, there are lines that should never be crossed...


In war the lines are always crossed, by both sides. It is a dirty business.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 11:19 AM
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Sorry about the slow reply. Rogue, for your information I've served in N. Ireland, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone and Iraq (twice), most of the time as a rifleman or section commander on the ground. You need to stop watching cartoons and get your eyes on the news. People are going to prison for the type of stuff we're seeing here. If you have served (which I am highly dubious about), then you must have been in a severely unprofessional unit, because the type of thing you're advocating is un-called for.

By the sounds of it, I was in these type of situations when you were still sh!tting yellow, so don't try to tell me how it goes.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 11:36 AM
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^^^ Look I'm not into comparing shoe sizes. I chose not to talk about what I've done or where I've been. I don't mind you doubting me.

Back to my original point - I am sick of people seeing 15 seconds of tape and then judging the actions of people without ever being there or knowing what it's like.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by rogue1
^^^ Look I'm not into comparing shoe sizes. I chose not to talk about what I've done or where I've been. I don't mind you doubting me.



You did ask



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Bleys
cyberdude78-The cheering and whooping is a natural reaction to fear and a rush of adrenaline and endorphines.

Having said that the "interview" at the end was kind of disturbing. But again we don't know the context of said interview or what question he was responding to.

Let's not judge - its obvious we don't have all the facts.



I am a SWAT Officer and can state that the cheering is a reaction to what fear and anger of what was going on around them.
It was not something that We older Officers do........ We are just happy to get it over with and save lives! To take someones life is not a good feeling!
You must live with it the rest of your life!
War is HELL............ This video does not make us look good at all.

It's might have been the first time they had to use lethal force. It might have been a good shot, but still, it does not look good.



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