Bugger me Rogue man, we must be fighting a different war in Afghanistan.

I've seen lots and lots of pics (in my hand) of so called SASR. The chap who showed them to me is (well, YOU guess) and they were not SASR working with Rangers, Delta and Force Recon. They were good old 22 SAS. Not gonna say which Sqn because spooks don't like that sort of thing and 'they' read these posts! Anyway they was taken at the fortress of Qala-e-Jhangi when SAS got the yanks out of the crap.

(I would also like to respectfully point out that the good old API often posts pics on the web or uploads for satelitte, pics depicting SAS and attributes them to SASR and vice versa so guys back home can cream their knicks!)

Incidentally, there is a lot of flak going from MOD to Whitehall about Tora Bora and lack of recognition for some serious hand to hand stuff in the tunnels. It don't matter whether it was SAS or SASR. They should get highest decoration for valour.

Rwanda was sorted by Paras and Marines. Got to be true mate - it said so in the UK Press! BUT if you say not, obviously then General Mike Jackson's personal toys were not 'up to the job'. Dunno about Marines though - I always thought they were better then paras - earlier post to devilwasp not withstanding.

Are you back home in Aus for good Rogue man, or are you off again like our poor bludgers?

Originally posted by rogue1
The SASR saw much more action than the Brit SAS in Afghanistan, for some reason the Americans preferred to use our men.

Well, IMO its because they cant be seen to be led by the brittish.
Hell, they even ran into a mine to not be seen being led.

No matter what, there will continue to be controversy over the USMC video.. All that matters is that if that Marine, or his fellow dogs, felt threatened due to all of the cowardly practices these insurgents are presenting, take charge of your and your fellow Marines lives, and not take a chance in that sit. If you feel threatened, then eliminate the threat. Just because a Marine is a grunt doesn't mean he doesn't have any common sense. Most of your enlisted infantrymen are quite intelligent, and do not judge just from the footage you have seen on the communist news network.

Too many young servicemen/women have been scared of squeezing the trigger at the wrong time, only to cost them their young lives.

Sometimes, you have to whoop the the bully on the other block in order to safeguard your playtime on your own block, and you have to take a walk to do it.

"The road to hell is paved with the souls of small unit leaders who failed to post security..."

He should not have been there in the first place. He knew the risk of being in combat just like anyone else in combat. WAR is terrible. If you engage in combat, then it's fair game.

Originally posted by 954speeder
He should not have been there in the first place. He knew the risk of being in combat just like anyone else in combat. WAR is terrible. If you engage in combat, then it's fair game.

Agree.
Plus, the Marines got like 4 hours of sleep in 4 days. Man, besides that, in a combat zone, young soldiers will see things that are not there, your mind will play tricks on you sometimes. All part of the horrible war.
Also, they are fighting people who think they will go to heaven and screw 54 virgins when they die. That is pretty scary
Fog of war is part of war.

Originally posted by fritz
Bugger me Rogue man, we must be fighting a different war in Afghanistan.

I've seen lots and lots of pics (in my hand) of so called SASR. The chap who showed them to me is (well, YOU guess) and they were not SASR working with Rangers, Delta and Force Recon. They were good old 22 SAS. Not gonna say which Sqn because spooks don't like that sort of thing and 'they' read these posts! Anyway they was taken at the fortress of Qala-e-Jhangi when SAS got the yanks out of the crap.

I've heard rumors that the SAS/SBS may have been at the prison. Do you have any links to this, I would be very interested.

(I would also like to respectfully point out that the good old API often posts pics on the web or uploads for satelitte, pics depicting SAS and attributes them to SASR and vice versa so guys back home can cream their knicks!)

I'm just going by what the Australian governmant has released to the press about operations in Afghanistan. I assume they wouldn't take credit for British operations.

Incidentally, there is a lot of flak going from MOD to Whitehall about Tora Bora and lack of recognition for some serious hand to hand stuff in the tunnels. It don't matter whether it was SAS or SASR. They should get highest decoration for valour.

No offenses ( seriously), but the only book I've read to come out of Afghanistan about the SAS, satstes categorically that the stories about the SAS knife fighting in Tora Bora were made up by the BRit press desperate for some information about any SAS role in Afghanistan.
THe book is called Ultimate Risk : First contact with Al-Qaeda

Rwanda was sorted by Paras and Marines. Got to be true mate - it said so in the UK Press! BUT if you say not, obviously then General Mike Jackson's personal toys were not 'up to the job'. Dunno about Marines though - I always thought they were better then paras - earlier post to devilwasp not withstanding.

There was a small contingent of Australians there after the masscares, I was part of companmy tasked with infantry protection of our medical teams.

Are you back home in Aus for good Rogue man, or are you off again like our poor bludgers?

Yeah, back home for the time being, I'm retired from th military though. It was time for a change.

[edit on 8-2-2005 by rogue1]

Oman situated on the Plain, to the east of Saudi Arabia where it's exposed to wind and rain, and at times, it felt like Pentonville or Alcatraz.

I`ve never heard Oman described as this.Strange?

Ah Wierdo!

'Fraid you won't old son.

They're lyrics to a song, oft sung when we were pissed, in our fav watering hole - The Camel Club.

Or was it Shell.

Or maybe the Ah Soul.

U2U has full lyrics - not for publishing as they're copyrighted!

What the clip showed was not combat, not an execution, it was joy killing.

Anybody who tries to justify or reason this as otherwise has never been in combat and is simply an immoral person.

Torture and vengeance executions are a well known fact in armed conflicts, but other then individuals with homicidal disorders are normally associated with severe conditions, complete command breakdown, prolonged combat stress and extremely heavy losses, statistical levels of which do not apply to Iraq by any measure.

It is a fact that unlike in Nam our troops in Iraq do not have a definite 12 month rotation limit, but it is no excuse.

Extensive studies have been conducted after WWII atrocities committed by SS troops. One of the identified aspects was “Joy killing”, a group physiological encouragement (peer pressure) tool applied by commanding officers in order to solidify the ideology of superiority in “green” troops and get them “on the ball”. In our words, gang initiation.

Thus the reasons for Geneva Convention, POW rights, etc. Our government specifically refused to recognize these international laws, identifying ANY armed individual in the combat zone who is not a soldier in the army of a “recognized” nation as an “illegal combatant”. Nazis simply called it the rights of the superior Arian race.

They are in fact front line Nazi SS films, known as “Nazi snuff”, which are remarkably similar to the video posted here. All the same cheering, smiling faces, happily doing their “duty” for the glorious Third Rich. Screaming out what fun it is to fulfill their obligation by raping and killing the “inferior sub-humans”, gooks, ragheads, what have you.

The “illegal combatant” clause allows US armed forces to legally kill, torture, refuse medical aid to wounded, or do what ever else you might image to anybody they want. V.P. is currently pushing for the “torture clause”, which under Homeland Security will legally allow torture on US soil, and one day maybe you, the reader, will get to scream out what great nation we live in while they are pulling your fingernails of.

It is a fact of life that all kinds of atrocities regularly occur in conflicts around the world, but it doesn’t mean that we can do the same while preaching piece freedom and democracy, because Nazi very quickly turned to slave labor and gassings while preaching theirs.

That is why we lost in Nam and why we’ll lose again in Iraq, that’s why Rome fell, why England is a mere historical novelty and why all empires bent on conquest share the same fate.

Originally posted by iskander
That is why we lost in Nam and why we’ll lose again in Iraq, that’s why Rome fell, why England is a mere historical novelty and why all empires bent on conquest share the same fate.

Uh ok, question..
You EVER been to england?

Yep. Absolutely mad Jungle/D’nB scene, Rubber Ball, thriving film community which kicks Hollywood’s behind, refreshingly great TV, pricey “congestions tolls”, no parking, cameras EVERYWHERE, and a lot of old folk stuck in the olden Empyreal glory days. East India Company, African safaris’ and such.

Crappy food, thick beer, bloody stakes, but the fresh generation sure as hell knows how to live and let loose.

Did I just about cover it?

I have to mention the enormous international community, and that’s were you go for great food. I’m convinced that the best Indian food is in England, but then I wouldn’t call it England from a traditional point of view.

Cheers.

LMAo oh yeah U.S best trained military and are more disciplined than the rest of the world, what bunch of bull****, that guy was like 5 metres away and missed 3 bullets on a guy who laying on the ground and not even moving no wonder they lose 250,000 bullest for each insurgency....

No kiddin,

Just like drunken rat shoot’n back at the junk yard, but considering how much fun they were having I guess they liked it a lot more.

LA cops are even worse. At least those “Marines” were aiming in one general direction, our brave boys in blue managed to pop over 120 rounds in 10 seconds into everything including the WHOLE neighborhood, but of course do to the “imminent and unavoidable life threatening danger” from a gently rolling truck. Not only that, they managed to shot EACH OTHER through the truck, because the idiots opened fire AFTER they surrounded it.

It’s like a bad western. What is this “the life of men and women who protect our way life was threatened, that’s why we had to shoot the enemy, 125 times, in the back, while they were dying already, but just to be safe, 'cause safety first, and since I mentioned it, let’s shoot them again, cause honestly it’s just a whole bunch of fun and all, you know, love to serve”.

Honestly, as a people we are good folk, it’s just the minority that thinks they are the majority that get me. You know, the loud ones, and not to bright, people who don’t really understand basic principles of law and civility. Something like shooting a wounded man in the back and then laugh about it is at least not a Christian thing to do, unless of course uncle Bush says so.

'nuf said.

"In soldier slang they call it Willy Pete. The technical name is white phosphorus. In theory its purpose is to illumine enemy positions in the dark. In practice, it was used as a chemical weapon in the rebel stronghold of Fallujah. And it was used not only against enemy combatants and guerrillas, but again innocent civilians. The Americans are responsible for a massacre using unconventional weapons, the identical charge for which Saddam Hussein stands accused. An investigation by RAI News 24, the all-news Italian satellite television channel, has pulled the veil from one of the most carefully concealed mysteries from the front in the entire US military campaign in Iraq.

A US veteran of the Iraq war told RAI New correspondent Sigfrido Ranucci this: I received the order use caution because we had used white phosphorus on Fallujah. In military slag it is called 'Willy Pete'. Phosphorus burns the human body on contact--it even melts it right down to the bone.

RAI News 24's investigative story, Fallujah, The Concealed Massacre, will be broadcast tomorrow on RAI-3 and will contain not only eye-witness accounts by US military personnel but those from Fallujah residents. A rain of fire descended on the city. People who were exposed to those multicolored substance began to burn. We found people with bizarre wounds-their bodies burned but their clothes intact, relates Mohamad Tareq al-Deraji, a biologist and Fallujah resident."

Originally posted by iskander
'nuf said.

"In soldier slang they call it Willy Pete. The technical name is white phosphorus. In theory its purpose is to illumine enemy positions in the dark. In practice, it was used as a chemical weapon in the rebel stronghold of Fallujah. And it was used not only against enemy combatants and guerrillas, but again innocent civilians. The Americans are responsible for a massacre using unconventional weapons, the identical charge for which Saddam Hussein stands accused. An investigation by RAI News 24, the all-news Italian satellite television channel, has pulled the veil from one of the most carefully concealed mysteries from the front in the entire US military campaign in Iraq.

A US veteran of the Iraq war told RAI New correspondent Sigfrido Ranucci this: I received the order use caution because we had used white phosphorus on Fallujah. In military slag it is called 'Willy Pete'. Phosphorus burns the human body on contact--it even melts it right down to the bone.

RAI News 24's investigative story, Fallujah, The Concealed Massacre, will be broadcast tomorrow on RAI-3 and will contain not only eye-witness accounts by US military personnel but those from Fallujah residents. A rain of fire descended on the city. People who were exposed to those multicolored substance began to burn. We found people with bizarre wounds-their bodies burned but their clothes intact, relates Mohamad Tareq al-Deraji, a biologist and Fallujah resident."

What a load of BS LMAO. It might interest you to know that pound for pund High Explosive is far more effective than WP. Is it a chemical yes, but so is any HIgh Explosive you care to mention.
It isn't a WMD as you are trying to imply. It has ben used ever since WWII as an incindiary, there is nothing new or sinister about its use.
Maybe you should actually do some research before posting crap which you obviously know nothing about.

BTW, the WP isn't multicoloured It's obvious this is just BS. If it was used on masse ( as your article impies ) Falluja would have become a firestorm, did you see any of that

Anyway enough said, go and educate yourself if you want to have any respect when commmenting about these things.

Originally posted by iskander
I take it you did not read the article and skipped your chemistry classes. Live and learn.

1. The topic had nothing to do with HE. Comparing phosphorus to HE is like comparing a banned three sided bayonet to a gun.

You missed the point, WP is not a WMD and HE has more destructive.

3. WMD were not mentioned anywhere either. The phosphorus was used as a chemical weapon.

Used as a chemical weapon how ? It was used as an incindiary weapon.

4. Incendiaries have been used, but were unilaterally banned in 1980 just as gas was banned after WW1. That means that the use of chemical weapons is illegal.

Erm NO, it was banned against civilians, you can still use it in a war

The Russians are using a thermo baric RPG warhead but they are calling it a “chemical flamethrower”, and since it is an explosive and not irritant based for now they get away with it.

Well, the hypergolioc chemicals the Russians use are highly toxic, and if they aren't entirely consumed in the detonation they can kill through poisoning.

We use them to literally blow Afghans out of caves, and oh yea they burn. As far as it being sinister, let’s not split hairs’ here, just try some on your skin. Who knows, maybe you have a lot to spare.

Hmm, you have a complete misunderstanding of thermobaric weapons. You are killed by the shockwave long before your body is burnt, if at all. Thermobaric weapons aren't chemical weapons they are a different type of explosive using the atmosphere as an oxidozer.

Splitting hairs eh?

Ok, one last time.

“You missed the point, WP is not a WMD and HE has more destructive.”

See -> BTW when HE explodes people run FOR cover, when phosphorus is used people run OUT from cover.

Hum, “take” Fallujah by bombing it of the face of the earth with all the inhabitants or use physiological warfare by spreading widespread panic with the use of chemical “incendiary “weapons. (Still chemical and still kills people horribly by SLOWLY BIRNING them to DEATH, I hope this is clear enough for you, no wait, burning EVERYBODY in the affected are INDISCRIMENLY, including CIVILLIANS, whom at times are composed of women, children and the elderly.)

“Used as a chemical weapon how ? It was used as an incindiary weapon.”

A chemical reaction is a process involving one, two or more substances (called reactants), characterized by a chemical change and yielding one or more product(s) which are different from the reactants.

reactants -oxygen, pentoxide, moisture

Incendiary- Of or containing chemicals that produce intensely hot fire when exploded: an incendiary bomb.

accelerants- thermite, aluminium and iron oxide.

It’s basic school kind of stuff.

EVERYTHING is incendiary. If I put YOU in front of a microwave transmitter big enough, YOU will be incendiary. Try it with your microwave, just please make sure that the test “subject” is not a living creature. Same with radiation etc. Why not just start frying people with neutron bombs then, hey it kind of burns, just real quick.

“ Erm NO, it was banned against civilians, you can still use it in a war”

That’s just stupid, watch the video. Infants man, infants. I had a misfortune of being burned, I know how it is, so go and try burning your self, maybe you’ll get it.

“Well, the hypergolioc chemicals the Russians use are highly toxic, and if they aren't entirely consumed in the detonation they can kill through poisoning.”

Congradulations! At least the warheads are small, take an interest in what we’re packing.

“Hmm, you have a complete misunderstanding of thermobaric weapons. You are killed by the shockwave long before your body is burnt, if at all. Thermobaric weapons aren't chemical weapons they are a different type of explosive using the atmosphere as
an oxidozer."

Aha.

I’m not going into details on the differences between thermobaric detonation and fuel-air effect. One detonates another deflagrates. One has high brisant effect, the other a sub-sonic high-pressure cloud. If they are near use the first, if they're deep then use the latter. Who gives one.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that our inept leadership is again resulting to burning civilians in order to achieve another hazy goal set forth by our verbally challenged leader. As the wheel of history turns over we just sit back down and don’t care even more.

I think it was CNN that coined the fraise for the Iraqi mess, they were the words of a Abrams gunner, “Burn the tuckers!” Looks like this time it’ll stick.

Did you try burning your self yet? It’s a hellova sensation I tell ya! Try acid, it’ll be closer to the phosphorus.

Cheers, I’m out.



[edit on 8-11-2005 by iskander]

[edit on 8-11-2005 by iskander]

In the video a man was murdered and the murderers were cheering like a bunch of school girls. The man was un-armed and badly injured. He didn't need to be shot again.

Someone made a very good point about if that was a american soldier should he be shot on the spot. How many americans here would be protesting at that? while its a enemy and made every excuse possible why he had to die. shame on you. And it was the USMC as well

You call that liberation

[edit on 8-11-2005 by chinawhite]