Children should be protected from bigoted Christian foster parents

reply to post by The Djin


Perhaps we need to also edit Torah and Qu'ran while we're at it? It's only Muslims, Jews and Athiests that want the Christian doctrum (ahhhh, which ones? Anglican, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Morman, Presbyterian, etc ?) out of public schools and the like. If Jews and Muslims don't like it, they have a choice - private Jewish and Islamic schools. Mine go to public schools where they can choose their own scripture classes that are available to most students from a variety of beliefs or they can settle for non-Scripture classes. Either way, without some form of religious study the only alternative is an Ethics class - now how should we run those and who should run them?

I can't make an honest intelligent debate on Christian's beliefs simply because there are so many different types of Christianity and their doctrins I can't keep up with them all however I can say the same about Judaism (Ultra Orthodox, Orthodox, Conservative, Progressive, Reform, Liberal, Messianic) and Islam with their many different sects.

reply to post by Kailassa


These evil things you mention that happen in some Christian families also do happen among other religions too. Quite frankly, it's really not about religion, its about control and narcissism of some parents with a personality disorder that USES religion as an excuse for their horrid behaviour.

reply to post by fooks

because it is idiotic to even consider christians are worse than anyone else.

At what ? parenting ?

i will teach a kid that there is no god and they are just here because i get money from the state to take care of them?

You'd be quite surprised to hear that there people that happen not to be chrsitian that take in children for no reward, be it financial or a place in the afterlife.

wait, islam! ya that's good too! here is a toy ak-47 and a bandana for ramadan.

You lost me here, is this a response to soldiers fo jesus or something ?

then you can protest all that is not islam in this western democracy.

You're not making any sense here either, please explain

what is my motivation to take care of them? love? is that something only atheists have for others?

I have not (nor has anyone else for that matter ) implied xtians don't love.

"yes, we can celebrate christmas but not buy into the dogma, little one" "what is dogma?"

Although you're going off here it's polite to reply, christmas is not jesus' birthday this is a lie told by christians to little children.

As harmless as the Santa Claus lie ? Well the kids are eventually told the truth about Santa.

"there is no god, my son"

Although few atheist actually say this, even if they did so what ?

"i'm sorry but there is no god to love you, but i do" "there is only me to love you"

Well my own children (and those of every atheist I've spoken to) are pretty well adjusted with just the love of their parents .

So, by your reasoning if I tell my children that there is an invisible man in the sky that loves them they will somehow be better off for it ? How exactly ?

As I type, I just informed my daughter that is a god that loves here, she looked at me stupid asked if I'd been using mushrooms and went back to her friend wii.

So clearly a child is quite capable ( and by the looks naturally inclined) of being satisfied with the love of real human beings, being informed that there is an invisible man in the sky that loves them adds no more value to their lives than being told fairies love them.

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by fooks

 

because it is idiotic to even consider christians are worse than anyone else.

At what ? parenting ?

i will teach a kid that there is no god and they are just here because i get money from the state to take care of them?

You'd be quite surprised to hear that there people that happen not to be chrsitian that take in children for no reward, be it financial or a place in the afterlife.

wait, islam! ya that's good too! here is a toy ak-47 and a bandana for ramadan.

You lost me here, is this a response to soldiers fo jesus or something ?

then you can protest all that is not islam in this western democracy.

You're not making any sense here either, please explain

what is my motivation to take care of them? love? is that something only atheists have for others?

I have not (nor has anyone else for that matter ) implied xtians don't love.

"yes, we can celebrate christmas but not buy into the dogma, little one" "what is dogma?"

Although you're going off here it's polite to reply, christmas is not jesus' birthday this is a lie told by christians to little children.

As harmless as the Santa Claus lie ? Well the kids are eventually told the truth about Santa.

"there is no god, my son"

Although few atheist actually say this, even if they did so what ?

"i'm sorry but there is no god to love you, but i do" "there is only me to love you"

Well my own children (and those of every atheist I've spoken to) are pretty well adjusted with just the love of their parents .

So, by your reasoning if I tell my children that there is an invisible man in the sky that loves them they will somehow be better off for it ? How exactly ?

As I type, I just informed my daughter that is a god that loves here, she looked at me stupid asked if I'd been using mushrooms and went back to her friend wii.

So clearly a child is quite capable ( and by the looks naturally inclined) of being satisfied with the love of real human beings, being informed that there is an invisible man in the sky that loves them adds no more value to their lives than being told fairies love them.

that's nice,

you need a baby sitter?

so when there is no one else (real people) to love them, if you die in a horrible plane crash with everyone she knows and she survives, who will love her? maybe the nice 48yo down the street who still lives with mom?

and how old is she knowing about "shrooms" and playing wii?

the ak-47 comment is about nice little islamic kids and whacko parents.

Some people have the mentality of footboll-supporters; they like to be in the warmth of a group, no matter which, and had they lived in another city, they would be carrying other colours, not caring much about what it's all about. Others have a real interest in something, believing they have found some existential answers in this or that, and finally we have a small group of sociopaths, who for the glory or power want to enforce their own attitudes on the rest of mankind.

Practically all ideologies have a certain percentage of the sociopath variety, and these sociopaths are all a pest for the rest of us, who are sane enough to live without any ideological crutches implying obsessional violence or dreams of monopoly. And all these wanna-be dictators are constantly fighting each other, usually to the bitter end, forcibly or propagandistically involving a lot of people, who would rather be left in peace.

If mankind doesn't want itself and the planet blown to bits, a way has to found to balance all the power-grabbing between these fanatical extremists. And while liberal democracy is far from being perfect, it's our best chance of survival. All the power constellations watching each other, so no-one will get special privileges and 'win'. We may even some day arrive at the situation, where public voting will make some impact instead of the present theater.

In this context christianity has a special position. Its sociopathic fringe has for 2000 years manifested a totalitarian attitude, which equals the worst of all the historical examples of similar power dreams, both in deed and doctrine. So it's no wonder, if christianity as a whole is strongly criticized, including those christians, who only are 'passive members' of the blood club. People have learned to distrust anything associated with christianity (as it has with other totalitarian systems), and if you christians want to stop 'being picked at', I suggest you clean your own backyard as the first step instead of whining about your privileges being taken away. I guess sociopathic christianity is so popular now as a target, because it's a good place to start.

To attach this post to the present thread: Recently we've seen efforts of whitewashing Jahveh as a basically decent parent, who in spite of commandments of genocide, racism, slavery, sexism and some hundred other atrocious 'laws' is presented as one of the good guys, on the grounds of a self-approved doctrine saying, that mankind 'had it coming' and that all the brutality is for our own good.

I'm old enough to remember the time, when Kailassa's story was just the visible top of the iceberg. Taking after the schizoid role-model of Jahveh, parents and educators beat the living light out of children, to install the 'fear of god' in them or just to promote a 'god-given' authoritarian hierarchy. For those with 'we're not worse than other people': Please notice, that Hitler, Stalin, Mao et al aren't that much in fashion these days as ideals, and constant efforts are made to keep a lid on that kind of fanatism to re-emerge.

I'm far from being permissive in the adult-child relationship, some discipline is needed to mark limits, but beating a child half to death or instating crusades (the difference only being in scale), is only a symptom of the usual insanity problem sociopaths suffer from: Power-grabbing, indoctrination, Machiavellian scheming sneaked in by the backdoor through bringing up children as true believers.

Not to mention the other shady deals going on. Thanks dog for secular, liberal society, which at least the poltical extremists are beginning to see the advantage of.

reply to post by mamabeth


Hi M you took you time, so the big guns are now here eh ?

1.You have complained about the poor christian turn out on this thread. Many, who have become familiar to your rantings on these topics,don't listen to you anymore,get off your soap box dearie.

I didn't complain I observed and reported my observation, bare in mind that the lee christians engage in the debate and prove their case, the more likely that incidents such as in the thread topic will occur unchallenged. One could think all well and good initially but even atheist can be extreme which could result in a conclusion that may not be reasonable .

2.Christians do see the bigger picture,people like you,don't.You are all in self-denial.

What exactly, am I denying myself and who made you an authority on it ?

3.In the U.S.,we do have separation of church and state,which includes public education.That is why a lot of christians put their children in church schools.Some even home-school their children.

The US is the most violent nation on earth yet paradoxically one of the most religious so I wouldn't so put too much stock into that.

4.You go to far when you suggest that..."efforts will have to be made to prevent christians indoctrinating their own children".

Re read my post M, I implied that the writing could well be on the wall and also questioned the right of the state to do so, perhaps my rhetoric needs working on, my apologies.

Your constant bashing of any religious teachings are noted,applauded by some,ignored by others.

Not just any religious teachings M but mostly those that incite one human to harm another or require children to suspend critical thinking etc. Those that choose to ignore me have every right to but only deny themselves the opportunity to strengthen their convictions by entering into the debate, how does it go ? My name is legion for we are many lol

Talking about strength of convictions M, did I ask you the question -

If your god told you to kill me,
would you do it without any consideration ?

Do it reluctantly and with a heavy heart but do it anyway ?

Refuse point blank and change to another god ?

reply to post by bogomil


What a great level headed post
thanks for your intelligent impeccably written contribution .

If only I had an education perhaps I would be less misunderstood and have more intelligent debating abilities, the trouble with being a dumb ass is you one often sees everything as black and white sometimes your post was most refreshing.

reply to post by fooks

so when there is no one else (real people) to love them,

Dude, there are billions of people on this blue planet who's very fist emotion when they're born is love, so plenty of love about matey.

if you die in a horrible plane crash with everyone she knows and she survives, who will love her?

Are you implying the joy of loving unconditionally cannot be experienced without being reciprocated ?

People die every day my friend, this has gone on for thousands of years before the yeahweh/jesus story was ever told

maybe the nice 48yo down the street who still lives with mom?

Why do so many christians have to resort to fear in ordewr to make their case, perhaps for lack of reason or content?

and how old is she knowing about "shrooms" and playing wii?

No one mentioned shrooms I didn't know what shrooms actually meant until I read it on ATS a few weeks ago. I said mushrooms dude around here the average age of kids starting on weed and"shrooms" is 12.

Before you go off on one, these are kids educated in schools education with "broadly christian" values which doesn't say a lot for chrisitian education or praying to an invisble man that lives in the sky.

reply to post by The Djin


I have never ignored you! I have wanted to beat you,
but never ignore
You are more fun then a zoo full of monkeys...
Now,watch me get punished for an off topic post

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by The Djin

 

I have never ignored you! I have wanted to beat you,
but never ignore

You are more fun then a zoo full of monkeys...

Now,watch me get punished for an off topic post

You'd make a good politician M, totally bloody evasive but I forgive you.

Indeed, please stay on topic

If you happened to foster a child who one day informed you he or she was born gay would you -

A) Just ignore it ?

B) Inform the child that he or she would be tortured for all eternity unless he/she quit being gay.?

C) Try and re educate the child perhaps by trying to get him/her turned on by a member of the opposite sex ?

D) Take the child to church and get your pastor to exercise the gay demon ?

E) Not even entertain the though of fostering a child that was gay or not indoctrinated into your beleif system ?

Who says that Agnostics and Atheists aren't bigotted?
What if the child came home one day and wanted to go to church and become a Christian?
Does that now make them a bigotted foster parent because of their anti-religious beliefs?
A child potentially being Gay is only one very small area where a future foster parent could be classified as bigoted.
It just proves that no one is perfect. We are all human. As long as people give a child love, they have a lot more than they previously had, if they came from a abused background.

reply to post by The Djin


My answer is C.
What makes you think that I am being
evasive?

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by The Djin

 

My answer is C.
What makes you think that I am being
evasive?

C) Try and re educate the child perhaps by trying to get him/her turned on by a member of the opposite sex ?

And if/when you fail how much damage would you have done to the child ?

Seems a bit like trying to paint a black child white.

Originally posted by bogomil
I guess sociopathic christianity is so popular now as a target, because it's a good place to start.

But why start there? Why can't we target many places at once? There is corruption in every industry, religion, and business. Why do you fixate on one problem and not see the whole picture? The reality we live in now is in fact filled with greed, corruption, and power lust.

But religion is one aspect of the corruption, what about science? IS science still perfect after giving us diseases, intercontinental nuclear ballistic missiles, guns, drugs, and etc.

Are you telling me these science by-products are without corruption?

reply to post by The Djin


My answer would also be C. I believe that all humans have the ability to be "turned on" by either sex. Yes, I am including myself in this equation.

reply to post by The Djin


As far as I'm concerned you can talk to my paw.
What would your answer be to your own question?

Re Equinox99

Sure, anywhere on the sociopathic fringe could be a startingpoint for a liberal stand. But as this thread is about children's situation in a fundamentalistic christian context, I relate to that.

Besides I have a personal vested interest in the subject, as that part of the world I live in (North Europe) presently have three great irritants, possibly even threats, to our liberal democracies. Two of them being militant islam and invasive christianity.

I have noticed, that many US citizens complain about the 'tolerance' shown to muslim extremists. You must speak for your own country concerning such 'tolerance', because in Europe there's an intensive debate going on on the subject, and you would find quite a massive opposition to extremist islam here (which at a local level includes me).

As to sociopathic christianity itself here in North Europe, we're just seeing the same old sad pattern. The few percent existing fundamentalists haven't caught up with the last century yet. They simply seem to be unable to grasp, that their days of power are finished, that they are being firmly, but politely, removed from key positions and their old privileges taken away.

Nonetheless they regularly insist on reinstating christian 'values' as basic norms for societies, which have changed their cultural norms away from christianity. Sometimes by claiming rather pathetic 'reasons' such as christmas (a christian hoax) being of importance to children, or by insisting that ONLY christianity has the ethical qualities needed for upbringing etc.

A very questionable claim, as both utilitarian philosophy, jain and buddhist compassion seem to contain much less implied violence than christianity.

From the true believers, the enforced neighbourly care and child care from christianity often results in rather unwanted and unpleasant results for said neighbours or children, and while adult christians ofcourse can have their doctrines as they like, liberal, secular society only allows for a certain amount of brainwashing, abuse and totalitarian indoctrination in children and other citizens.

Sorry pal, it's all about power-grabbing in the end, not about being mr. nice guy, representative of 'god', who is outside and above the rules. Many US christians have the idea, that european liberalism is a toothless kind of wishy-washy anarchy. This is far from the case. There are rules, and there are limits for challenging the rules; and amongst the basic rules are, that every individual, including children, have certain rights and certain obligations to be individuals, not zombies.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Kailassa

 

These evil things you mention that happen in some Christian families also do happen among other religions too. Quite frankly, it's really not about religion, its about control and narcissism of some parents with a personality disorder that USES religion as an excuse for their horrid behaviour.

So?

The thread is about parenting by hard-core Christians, and I was replying to a poster who said Christians wouldn't treat children badly because of what Jesus said.

Pointing the finger at other religions and saying, "but they do it too," is not only pathetic and weak, it's irrelevant.

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by Kailassa

 

Oh poppycock. My Christian parents,who used to belt me so badly they'd knock me unconscious and leave me covered in bruises, on learning that my brothers had raped me and made me pregnant, tried to kill me.
A friend's Christian parents disowned him when he told them he was homosexual, have never seen him since.
A local born-again primary school teacher had a reputation for injuring children. A local paedophile who has abused at least a dozen children and done time for it is a devout Christian, - and the church he attends has defended him, protected him, and has him running a club for handicapped children. I've known a heap of Christians who have gone beyond cruel in their treatment of children.

Dear god !! I've never read anything like that before,

Not to make light of your experiences but have you considered writing a book ?

Yes, but censorship laws in Australia mean I could never get it printed.

And thanks for your concern.
Perhaps people should take note that it's an Atheist who has stopped to show concern, not a Christian.

I still believe in a God, and in some of the teachings of Jesus. (Even if he never lived, some of the things written in his name make sense.) He taught the parable of the good Samaritan. He also taught that those who care for the needy will go to heaven, and those who don't won't.

A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Christ. By this definition, many atheists I've met are better Christians than the average Christian, (who boasts smugly of other Christians' good works,) is.

If Christians only do good because their religion teaches them to, they are pretty poor humans. My atheist friends do good because they have honest, caring hearts. They don't need fear or indoctrination to tell them to care for the needy. They do it because they have empathy for others.

I have fostered a little girl. But I didn't do it because of belief, I did it because she needed loving care and I was there. But many Christians feel a need to justify their beliefs by saying their beliefs make them morally superior to others, (as evidenced by the many posts suggesting only Christians foster children,) so they just point the finger and say, "why don't you foster a child then?" when the ones saying this here have never fostered themselves.

Originally posted by fooks
wait, islam! ya that's good too! here is a toy ak-47 and a bandana for ramadan.
. . . .
what is my motivation to take care of them? love?

Obviously not.
Your posts make it clear you are much more familiar with hatred than with love.