American Doom!

reply to post by BingeBob


About the time I feel that most of the ATS ranting is unhealthy I come across someone like you. I appreciate your values and your courage to express your beliefs. Hang in there because more people feel the same as you. We are coming out and no longer keeping silent for fear of political correctness. We are tired of being put upon by those who "know best". My social charity has been reduced because of "social justice".

Originally posted by BingeBob
the economic collapse is largely due to the fallout of the 9/11 attacks, the wars and DEMOCRATIC POLICIES that mandated banks to give loans to undesireable people..

Barney Frank ... Chris Dodd ... oh .. and corrupt-ACORN lawyer Obama who sued Citybank and forced it to make bad loans .. loans that the bank knew would fail but that Obama and his ilk pushed through anyways.

word press
Obama said giving subprime loans to people who can't afford them is a good idea.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Don't you just love it when people use a BLOG as proof of their assertions.

Now it's true that the Democrats did deregulate the market which in turn did help bring about this recession, but isn't that what the GOP wants anyway, less government intervention in the markets so that free markets rule? You know, let big banks make stupid loans to poor people, hey, its free market! No government intervention cause government is bad, so no worries about Bernie Madoff pulling off the largest ponzi scheme in history, that's free market! WHOO HOO Free markets like what AIG did with the whole screwed up default swap loans and all that.

GO FREE MARKETS! No government intervention! WHOO HOO!

reply to post by whatukno


It isn't relevant how many minorities were elected. As for how many libertarians, up to one depending on if Paul is really a libertarian or not. There were only a small handful of tea party members elected. Virtually 100% Republicans and democrats were elected. That is why the tea party candidates have no shot whatsoever at either dismantling government or creating fascism as you believe they will do. TPM candidates only got about five out of five hundred positions this round of elections! Too little, too late. The US government programs are all doomed at this point and its exactly because not enough TPM candidates were elected. Had more been elected, they would be able to be downsized to the point where they could continue to exist rather than having the US go into a full debt default over the next few years. And that default coming up is the whole basis for existence of the tea party movement. Its why TPM members are considered "fanatics" when in fact its just basic math.

reply to post by whatukno


PS - People who blame the Tea Party for America failing are even worse than the Republicans blaming the Mexicans for America failing.

Last year America was taken off the tiny list of strongly capitalist countries. Maybe you could look into that.

Originally posted by whatukno


Get real, it's the same freaking thing.

If you haven't figured that out by now let me ask you, How many Libertarians were elected? How many Minorities were elected? How many that weren't straight up Republicans were elected and backed by the TEA Party?

You all got fooled bad, and America is going to pay the price for that ignorance.

What does a small number of minorities being elected have to do with anything?

?

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Don't you just love it when people use a BLOG as proof of their assertions.

Now it's true that the Democrats did deregulate the market which in turn did help bring about this recession, but isn't that what the GOP wants anyway, less government intervention in the markets so that free markets rule? You know, let big banks make stupid loans to poor people, hey, its free market! No government intervention cause government is bad, so no worries about Bernie Madoff pulling off the largest ponzi scheme in history, that's free market! WHOO HOO Free markets like what AIG did with the whole screwed up default swap loans and all that.

GO FREE MARKETS! No government intervention! WHOO HOO!

Well if the banks decide on their own who they give money to we would be better off because they wouldnt be mandated to give money away for free by government intrusion into PRIVATE BUSINESS

The one thing that I think buried the Democrats in this mid term were aspects of the health care bill. Obama promised transparency throughout the entire process then all of a sudden we start hearing about Democrats holding meetings that Republicans were not allowed to be involved in.

The Democrats held a super majority and constantly gloated and did things their way and the American people be damned. The Democrats had 2 years to be able to do anything they wanted yet things are a lot worse.

reply to post by inforeal


Never be too tired to give sources and be prepared to refute the attacks against the arguments. Once again there are problems in the arguments that were presented and now is a new day.
Lets start with the basics, how many people from another country, that has this kind of socialized medicine have you talked to, or do you go off of the reports? Funny thing about the reports and statistics and things that we read about, there are both good and bad sides of that report. Oh sure it may seem a good idea, but do tell, are you willing to pay 8 dollars a gallon for gas? No really, are you prepared to pay for that, or are you prepared to pay a higher tax rate on everything you purchase? Income tax on the middle class is 20%, those making a higher rate pay 40%. Oh and combine that with a VAT of about 20% and guess what, those people pay for that health care system and all of the other entitlements from the government. Think about it, not only are they having a higher amount of taxes being taken from their paycheck, but they have to pay a higher amount of money for each and every item that they purchase, to include food. So while you are eating breakfast, here is the breakdown. In the United States, the average tax rate on the middle class is about 19% for the Federal level, 6.7% at the state level, and an average sales tax of about 4.5%, for a grand total, of about 30.2, with some items, such as food, not being taxed. So there you have it, the countries you are talking about, tax everything and the average person pays 60%. System we have, with all of the taxes and it is about 30.2%.
Last time I walked into any hospital, in different states, from what I understand of the law, and having read several of the different laws, a person walking into an ER can not be turned away, to do such is a criminal offense, and could result in fines and criminal prosecution. Now if it happens that a doctor chooses not to accept Medicare or medicade, as is the case starting to come out these days, then there is absolutely nothing that the Government can do or should do. Reality is that every time the federal government goes to deal with medicare, they cut the funding, that means the doctors, with huge costs and overhead, are paid less and less, till it is a matter of business that they can not accept patients that are on medicare and medicade.
You state that the rich are not paying their fair share, really? According to the IRS, this is how the numbers break down, mind you that this is from the Federal Government, the agency who takes in the money from everyone: The bottom 50% pay 4% of taxes. The Top 25% pay 83%, the top 1 percent pay 35%, and the top 400 richest Americans paid 1.58%. So that means of all of the money that is brought in the rich are paying the most out of everyone. In 2005 1,043,908,000,000.00
Was collected. That means the super rich paid: 878,970,536,000. The rich paid: 134,173,495,240. The middle class paid: 28,210,559,352.92 And the Poor paid: 2,440,267,169.67
So the question is if the rich are paying billions in taxes, how much more do you think is fair that they give and would you be willing to pay the same tax rate that they do? Oh it may appear that the rich does not pay their fair share, but consider this, most people who are rich, are spending a good 10% their income on charities and endowments. That’s right, a majority of the charitable organizations, and grants for things like schooling, come from the rich. The hospitals and schools, often have large grants given to them by the rich. So if the rich are paying the lions share of the taxes, investing in businesses, being charitable and giving grants, then why ask them to pay more?
Your source on the health care proves my point: If you are going to trust what any politician says or reports on as fact, I have a bridge in Arizona I could sell you, prime real estate, a real historic piece of work. The report goes into what Harry Reid states. Big red flag to me, as it comes from the mouth of a man whose only interest is remaining in the chair he has been sitting in for a long time. Fact, the government LIES when it comes to reporting what is actually on reports, they tend not to go through and read the entire report, only going off of hearsay and second hand. If something is unpopular, they will use grant money to get the report that justifies their point of view, and tend to with hold funding if it is not what they want to hear. And since we are on taxes, why is it that an estimated 90% of the people who work in the federal government, and especially those in congress are the biggest tax cheats around? And those Democrats, why did they approve a measure to increase their pay and salary while every one else was out of work, and killed a bill that would cut their person income while the country is in a recession? Seems like they get paid, no matter the economy. And why is it, that if the health care bill goes through, they are exempt from it? Oh yes, the very democrats that you are protecting, guess what they are exempt from that health care bill, have a health insurance that is far greater than the CEO’s of a major company, and get paid for the rest of their life, even if they only work 4 years. And the Democrats are the biggest supports of not changing that. You not have a job after 4 years and you get nothing, be in congress one term and you get a nice package for the rest of your life. How is that fair? How is it fair that the average salary for someone in the federal government is 2 to 10 times that of their average counterpart out doing the same thing?
Global warming, wow, gee, I guess the thousands of people who made light bulbs really did not need their job. Oh and do be careful with the new greener ones, you know the light bulb that costs about 2 dollars to buy and 25000 to clean up with a good chance that you will lose your house as it would be contaminated. Yes that is true, woman went out bought the new light bulb, being very earth minded, and broke one. Noting that there was mercury in it, called to ask how to clean it up, well 25000 later, she can move into her house. The science of global warming and change is questionable at best. The figures and numbers do not add up, and why is it that every one of those scientists who questioned the data were attacked verbally, along with now it is coming out that they misrepresented the numbers that got everyone in an uproar? Sides, only just 30 years ago, the biggest fear was the earth was cooling, we were heading towards another ice age, and gee was that also not under a federal government that was controlled by: The democrats, people who can’t seem to decide if we are warm or cold, but hey lets scare everyone anyways.
Well now you brought up the war. Really, according to my information and the law of the country and the Constitution, last time I checked, we are not at war, never have been at war, nor does it seem that there will be a war. Sorry to disappoint you, however, last time I checked, and I do check on a regular basis, at the start of this whole thing, Congress did not declare war, no declaration, no say hey we are at war, nada, zip, zilch. And funny how for the past 2 years, with the democrats being in control and have a hold of the purse strings, they did not end the war what so ever. You see, the President can say go kill to the shoulders, as that is his job, but the congress has to approve and open up the proverbial purse to pay for it. And with the majority in the congress to actually do something they could have easily passed a bill to end both the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, easily. But no, instead they have to play armchair general and pretty much put people in danger, rather than let the military do its job, win this thing, and come home.
What is more immoral, we are really not falling for the lies and falsehoods coming out of congress and DC, or when people are in debt, out of work, hungry and their government promises to give another country 100 million dollars in aid? What is more immoral, people out of work looking and begging for work, or the government spending 800 thousand dollars, to teach people in another country how to properly clean themselves after sex? What is more immoral, you not paying taxes or under reporting your taxes and spending a few years in prison and a heavy fine, or the Senator who misreported his taxes, and ended up with just a slap on the wrist and a rules change? The immoral, ignorance, selfish and stupid people are not the people of this country, it is the leaders who are suppose to be acting for WE THE PEOPLE, but are instead acting for themselves.
The bailouts, well now, how about them bailouts, what about the 4 that the democrats passed that have done nothing for the country and people there in?

reply to post by sdcigarpig


I've noticed your posts are fairly lengthy, and I'm sure they contain some awesome thoughts, but would it be too much to ask to drop some paragraphs on us when you post?

Thanks.

Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
reply to post by inforeal

 

The original post lacks intelligence, common sense, and fact.

You took the word racist out of the original, why? Realize you sounded like a complete raving loon?

A simple yes or no question for you:

Have you ever read the Constitution?

Tea party candidates, for the most part, support it and oppose any unconstitutional expenditures. You indicate you support such measures. Why?

You claim they are bigoted, but completely overlook the obvious racism that comes from the left. Why?

THE ORIGINAL TEA PARTY DID.

The Tea Party you have now was hijacked by Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, and the rest of the conservative movement for one simple reason:

They wanted to get reelected.

They're ideals have changed, from wanting small government to conservative ideas of big business, big oil doing what they want, and more of the same.

Sorry to say, but your party got shammed hard. The moron brigade jumped from the sinking ship of the Republican Party to the life raft of the Tea Party. Except it's beginning to sink itself.

Look at last night. Despite how hard the Republican Party and the Tea Party have pushed on how Obama, Pelosi, Reid and the Democratic Party have ruined the country, the Democrats still retain control of the Senate.

For all the griping, moaning, and much more from Palin, the Tea Party failed miserably last night.

reply to post by Mak Manto


You keep telling yourself whatever you need to if it helps you sleep at night .

When did I ever say the tea party was "my" party?

Originally posted by whatukno
[Don't you just love it when people use a BLOG as proof of their assertions.

Don't you just love it when left wingers refuse to admit that, as a lawyer for the corrupt ACORN group, Obama sued Citybank forcing it to make bad loans to people in minority neighborhoods, and therefore Obama is as much to blame for the economic meltdown as Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.

I can give you a hundred quotes about Obama and his law suit against City Bank. It's a fact.

Chicago Sun Times

Obama represented Calvin Roberson in a 1994 lawsuit against Citibank, charging the bank systematically denied mortgages to African-American applicants and others from minority neighborhoods.

The reason the bank denied mortgages was because the people couldn't afford them!

Cas­e­ Name­

B­uy­cks-Rob­erson­ v­. Ci­t­i­b­an­k F­ed. Sav­. B­an­k F­ai­r Housi­n­g/L­en­di­n­g/I­n­suran­ce
Docket­ / Court­ 94 C 4094 ( N­.D. I­l­l­. ) F­H-I­L­-0011 St­at­e/T­erri­t­ory­ I­l­l­i­n­oi­s

Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
I am far from a righty.

I believe in keeping my money and not letting it be used on expenditures NOT included in the Constitution. "Helping people", alleviating poverty, healthcare, etc etc is not authorized in the Constitution, and for that matter, neither are wars which benefit corporate interests, which I also oppose.

Frankly, despite your protestations, you sound like a righty.

Constitution lays out very general principles on which the society is built. It doesn't tell us how to build it. Frankly, the Constitution doesn't tell you to change oil in your car once in a while, but you still do it, I hope. Why?

You made a narrow-minded fetish of the Constitution, not unlike the hard-core followers of Islam treat Quran.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
I am far from a righty.

I believe in keeping my money and not letting it be used on expenditures NOT included in the Constitution. "Helping people", alleviating poverty, healthcare, etc etc is not authorized in the Constitution, and for that matter, neither are wars which benefit corporate interests, which I also oppose.

Frankly, despite your protestations, you sound like a righty.

Constitution lays out very general principles on which the society is built. It doesn't tell us how to build it. Frankly, the Constitution doesn't tell you to change oil in your car once in a while, but you still do it, I hope. Why?

You made a narrow-minded fetish of the Constitution, not unlike the hard-core followers of Islam treat Quran.

Article 1 Section 8 isnt general, it is specific.

It would do you a world of good to educate yourself on a topic before you choose to debate it.

The republicans violate the Constitution just as much as the democrats do, and as a result I despise both of them equally.

Of course the Constitution doesnt mention changing my oil. That isnt a national issue, or one pertaining to freedom. Seriously, if you want to toss out idiotic questions like that, at least try to inject some intelligence into them next time.

An Independent's take on this thread...an observation with no pretense of solutions.

A divided ATS, while on occasion being quite entertaining (especially when this division leads to mutual, even universal, benefit), can sometimes be most distasteful to consider once the laughter and head-shaking has died down and an Individual reflects on some of the possible short and long-term ramifications. But I’ll leave those possibilities to all of you…since you’re all so obviously imaginative and creative at problem solving.

Pundits on BOTH sides of this damnable political aisle – tossing verbal and often shrill grenades to and fro - all the while hoping that additional voices join their cacophonous fray so that the RIGHTNESS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE ARGUMENT PROVES ITSELF OUT! And, of course, the highly sought after prize will be NOT the discovery of solutions to social problems, possible/probable Constitutional interpretation and suggestions of possible avenues to explore concerning environmental difficulties, but the simple realization that the FOOLS of the [losing] counter argument will ultimately cower in defeat and silently disappear from this site with their tails justifiably tucked between their legs.

Perhaps asking interactive questions related to the possibility of a left/right, democrat/republican, human/human MUTUAL EXPLORATION of this subject matter instead of making self-serving speeches and launching into painfully obvious biased diatribes based upon nothing more than personal philosophical posturing would be one avenue for you ALL to consider.

With a few exceptions happened upon here and there (SDCIGARPIG’s presentation comes to mind here, well sort of since there was no visible blood-letting to step around), there’s really no longer anything in this thread representative of discourse, of civilized dialogue…only the shouts and screams of wild-eyed, rabid and insatiably-ravenous Banshees. The pitiable whimpering of small mammals in leg-hold traps will, undoubtedly, be the end result of this wonderful exchange of ideas....

Idiots…

Moderators, I think that ATS IS BETTER THAN THIS! Please administer some measure of shepherding.

Mindpeace.

P.S. I’m certain that some of you civilized Individuals are asking yourselves Who The Hell Does THIS Guy Think HE Is?

P.P.S. My answer is presented with a posed question: Besides being someone who is politically independent, and someone who can recognize barbaric and destructive interactive behavior when I encounter it, then Who The Hell Else Do I HAVE To Be?

P.P.P.S. What a bunch of jackasses…

Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
Of course the Constitution doesnt mention changing my oil. That isnt a national issue, or one pertaining to freedom.

Well, if people don't change their oil, the engines will certainly stall, the nation will be paralyzed and possibly conquered by our enemies! It is in fact a national issue, and one of security. Funny you don't see that.

So in addition to Constitution, one has to use a liberal amount of common sense and logic (which you eschew). For example, letting population starve to death or succumb to illness in case of famine or mass unemployment etc will probably be aligned with your ideas of "freedom" but at closer examination won't fit the proverbial "pursuit of happiness" for either yourself or the deceased. Think of all the corpses in the ditch. Phew.

Seriously, if you want to toss out idiotic questions like that, at least try to inject some intelligence into them next time.

Just as soon as I detect some in your posts...

reply to post by inforeal
[m

i dont really understand how the americans work, with regards to healthcare etc, i know u have to pay insurance and if you have no insurance then u have to foot the bill for any medical treatment u recieve or something to that effect.

here in the uk its a lot different, when we work we pay tax and national insurance which is garnished from our wages automatically every week/month however we get paid, the national insurance goes towards our state pension so when we retire, we get a pension from the state as well as any pensions you have accrued from companys you have worked for, and our tax is tax.

as far as medical treatment etc, we have the NHS (national health service)

if i were to break my leg tomorow i could go to the hospital, get it fixed, cast etc or operated on and it wouldnt cost me a penny, same if i was to end up with cancer id get the treatment i needed or if i needed a heart transplant or major heart surgery etc again id get the operation and any further treatment for free.

we do not have to pay medical insurance or pay for our treatment, if we are prescribed drugs/medication we need to pay for that £3 per item, or we can pay £10 and that does our treatment for a whole month irrespective of how much medication we require.

to visit a doctor is also free.

wouldnt that work in the states?

reply to post by buddhasystem


Uh, pursuit of happiness isnt mentioned in the Constitution, thats the DOI.

Again, try to inject some intelligence into your posts.

If you can.

Your oil changing analogy is laughable, try again kid.

To the OP, I am speechless. You have obviously never been to the South or if you have instead of enjoying yourself and getting to know people, you instead clung to your misconstrued preconceptions of how the South is. When you visited was everyone chewing tobaccy barefoot playing banjos too? Enough about that though, here is some truth that might help you out a little bit. The two party system is broken and has been broken for a long time. The Democrats and the Republicans feign opposition for our amusement. Neither party cares about the people of this country. Through backroom collusions, the two party system has basically become a one party system. Both parties have the same agenda. Liberal and conservative is no longer where the fight is. The fight is between corporate sell out politicians who maintain an elitist mentality e.g. the majority in Washington and then true politicians who care about the welfare of the people such as Ron Paul, a republican, and until recently Dennis Kucinich, a democrat, just to name a few. There are good members in both parties and bad members in both parties. Unfortunately the bad members are the overwhelming majority on both sides. The real truth of the matter is, the longer we argue about race, religion, abortion, gay marriage, liberal, conservative, health care, etc., etc. the longer we stay divided and fall into the trap the elitists running this country want. The elitists know they have messed up, the elitists know people are waking up, and the best way to keep us all asleep is to make us fight amongst ourselves over pointless issues. The only way real change occurs is if we the people unite, decide that the Constitutional breaches by both parties is enough, and oust both parties out of Washington.