Those poor people. When did we stop caring?

reply to post by Echtelior
I was in the army 27 years ago.

I was a machinist,but the shop closed down.

There are NO jobs to be had anywhere near where I live,none.

There are not as many options as you seem to think.

I saved a lot of money when I was employed,so it ain't an issue.

Whether you wanna believe it or not,the cards are stacked against most people no matter what they do.

reply to post by chiponbothshoulders


I think you've misunderstod me. I was talking about the system and how people can partly at fault. But what you just said (let me state that I don't intend to sound insulting, allknowing or looking down on you) is another good example of what I meant with freedome of choiche. You see in my country it's a hughe flaw of the people to remain stationary. What I mean is in the east there are a lot of unemployed people while in the west and in the capitol there are tons of vacant jobs. But people tend to say I was born here, I live here, I don't want to move. That's why I can't have sympathy for them. It was their decision. They chose B.

Bytheway. I was in the army too. I just quit recently.

reply to post by Joshuadrooney


Put yourself in their shoes and think real hard on what you said. These people are human too just forgotten by society. Its hard for the poor to have a voice of their own since money talks.

Originally posted by Joshuadrooney

Originally posted by Hefficide

Stating such blanket disregard for other human beings is, in my opinion, very unenlightened and, frankly, despicable.

~Heff

I don't give a rats ass what you think, I don't care if you think I am despicable, I don't care if you think I am mean, I really don't care! These "people" are below contempt, thieves, drug addicts and lowlifes that should be swept off the street and hidden from public view.

Guess what I was one of those "people" you are referring to, I wans't a thief, drug addict or any other the sorts, times got hard and couldn't afford a home, and ended in the streets for over a year, so come off you damned high horse and quit being a self-righteous buffoon.

Oh and have a nice day

reply to post by chiponbothshoulders


When I lived in Wimbledon I saw a guy selling the Big Issue near Wimbledon station at about 7.30 am. The Big Issue is a British magazine set up to help the unemployed by getting them to sell a weakly magazine and keep a percentage. . I would give him 50p a weak. He always tried to get me to take a paper but I always said if he could get up and get out to the station to sell I would back him.

When I went to Leeds I heard that the Big Issue sellers also sold Crack. I did not believe this until I saw this guy doing this at 8.00in the morning. I actually saw the crack!

This proves to me that on an anecdotal manner that the situation is complex. I do not believe that the majority of people that are unemployed have mental health issues or or addiction issues.

Frankly we have even over produced graduates which is a Marxist analysis but it is none these less a crisis of over production.

Finally No political party has th answers as they are all intellectually depleted.

As for economists>>> Well if you put all the economists on the planet end to end they would never reach a conclussion.

Thank you for the post that puts into perspective the soul searching we must do to see ourselves as bums also, only a little higher up the lame economic ladder and lower on the ladder of love and compassion. We are all brothers and sisters.

Let our hearts reflect this through our actions/prayers/thoughts.

Thank you for the wake up call.

S&F

Basic income and cheap mass produced govermnent provided houses (NOT payed through private mortgage market corporations!) are the only way to solve the problem of poverty and homelessness of healthy people. Of course those with mental ilnesses or addictions should be internalised in appropiate institutions.

In my experience, many people not only don't care about the poor and homeless, but actually feel varying levels of enmity and resentment toward them. I've talked to friends about this a lot, and the consensus among people I know seems to be (whether correct or not) that many people feel that the poor and homeless are somehow cheating.

People who aren't poor or homeless have jobs, and have to pay taxes. They feel they work hard, expending their energy and happiness on something they don't really want to be doing in the first place, and then have to give some of the income they earn by doing so back to the system. Some of that money then goes to social welfare programs which benefits the poor and the homeless. This creates the impression in many people's minds that those people are thereby cheating. They aren't working, or are working less. They aren't paying taxes, or their taxes aren't as high. So they must be lazy, failures, greedy, selfish, or "just bums."

Not only does this successfully dehumanize them, but people actually feel anger and resentment toward them. It's just another facet of the incredibly popular and frighteningly accelerating "blame the victim" mentality that seems to be sweeping our society.

Now don't get me wrong. There are people who cheat the system out of laziness or lack of work ethic. But many people simply assume that the majority or even the totality of the poor, homeless, and impoverished citizens of a nation (or the world) fall into that category. And that's when it becomes automatically blaming the victim in my view. And that's very sad to me.

This is just my personal opinion. I respect everyone's differing viewpoints.

Originally posted by Joshuadrooney
reply to post by Seed76

 

Go find where I said I was more important or superior to anyone else. Come back when you find it. I bet you can't, you fool.

really is this allowed?
i find your post offensive, and i don't think i'm the only one.
stop the name calling and make your point via your post and valid arguments.

and about the druggies...
ever took them? if not, you're not in a position to judge the 'druggies'.
for example, laughter and sex are two of the best natural arouses and highs you can get.
they produce up to 200 doses of dopamine i believe.
wich gives you that great feeling, that natural high.

some drugs trick the brain into creating 5 or 6 times that amount, so it's very very addictive.
so let me ask you a question...
would it be easy for you to just stop having sex?
imagine giving something up that is 5 or 6 times more powerfull and addictive.

place yourself in another person shoes before you judge them.

(before you start attacking me, nope! i've never been an addict)

I'm not agreeing with homeless people I'm just understanding that when they are taking drugs and alcohol is to get away from it all. They know they are homeless, they are the first to know. They get high or drunk to escape from it all.

Homeless people in india are not homeless because they don't work but because they have the ability to let go of material thing. And they are treated pretty well.

I'm not pro homeless my philosophie in life is that it's that everything in your life, good or bad, is your own fault.

P.S. I think that it's the text with the most time homeless in it, that I wrote at least.

reply to post by Stop-loss!


The seventh day is Sabbath to Ruler of all, your supreme. Do not proceed to
make anyone work, not you or your sons or daughters, who serve you. Nothing that
is in your care, not even your livestock shall work. And you are to make sure that
the poor within the city gates are given their needs. (So that they will not have to
beg on this day).

Life in America is hard for the middle class and poor.

I used to live in Europe in Germany with a lower wage and it was much better there.

It was because not everything required money.

reply to post by kn0wh0w


I really have no sympathy for drug addicts. Let me ask you a question if you see some people eating a pizza and everytime they consumed a piece of it they fell ill threw up and passed out would you take a slice?

If you still do drugs after seeing all the crap it does to people all around you your pretty foolish really no excuse for it. Ive seen drugs ruin family members and friends so what kinda idiot would i have to be to use them when ive seen the effects with my own eyes?

As far as homeless people go i give them money sometimes. But some of these pan handlers are on disability checks or get government help then panhandle and some of them do pretty good.

Their are jobs out there a lot easier than standing on the curb/median all day in the humid North Carolina heat during the summer. If these guys can stand in that hot heat all day everyday they can work. Almost all jobs are easier than that!!

Plus you think they gonna stand in the heat all day if they arent getting paid? Say 1000 cars go by a day average and just 100 cars give a buck a piece.
These guys just made 100 bucks tax free. Thats more than some working people make. Combine this with the check some of them are probably getting.

I just dont think anyone would stand in the same spot day after day in the hot sun unless it was worth it.
Hell I know someone is not gonna stand on the blacktop with no shade in heat index of 110 unless they are making money.

Plus here in NC on craigslist i see people renting out rooms in their house utility's included 300-400 a month. A lot of these people are having hard times and rent a room out of a house that was bigger than they needed to begin with. If push comes to shove you could make that much at Mcdonalds and at least get a roof over your head.


While some homeless people are in real bad shape their are also others that are doing better than you think.
I give to some because i know some really need the help but you cant differentiate between who really does and who doesnt.

Here we have an issue where the 'op's' post questions the veracity of our humanity, its manifestation and expression from each of us individually..."...when did we all stop caring?"

It comes down to how each of us as a individual person express ourselves through the mindset that emerged through our life experience...we are products of the content of our own individual histories. Conscience and empathy are requisites to a stable and cohesive society, without them it all falls apart. Society isn't the bricks and mortar of our buildings, the skyscrapers or the cathedrals or the castles and mansions, those are just expressions. Society is the endeavour of each of us to bring and maintain the idea of it into fruition and longevity, as we express it through our various cultures.

For someone like 'Joshuadrooney' to think the way he does with such an absence of conscience and empathy towards his fellow species, one can only surmise the mindset he holds is an expression of a life experience devoid of love and nurture, and more akin to a cold and stark upbringing. He is mentally embedded in a nationalistic zeal that points the finger of blame for his county's ills at the wrong targets of culpability, and he expresses himself with an inverse snobbery for all things poor and impoverished...a sad and tragic indictment on his inability to 'feel' what it is to be human.

To be human and humane, is most highly expressed in acts of caring and giving altruistically, not just to one's own, but more so to the most alien and different of cultural expressions than that of our normal daily experience. People like Drooney are not to be confronted or argued with, but to be pitied for the absence of humanity in their makeup, I doubt very much that living in poverty, being poor and impoverished, have ever touched Drooney's experience except in his expression of disdain for it and the people struggling daily in the condition. A samaritain he is not. He is incapable of immersing his consciousness into that of someone constantly struggling to make ends meet, and only by actually living the experience of living poverty for a long time will he gain an wider expression of conscience and empathy towards his fellow man.

reply to post by Joshuadrooney


What if it was you beggin on the streets because the Gov took your home and raped your finance, so you was forced on the streets starting with dope cause life on the street aint that cool.. and you met your self saying this.

reply to post by ker2010


let me be very clear that i´m not a user, nor have i ever been one.
just tried some things once or twice.

but i´ve seen people go down the drain using drugs.
believe me when i tell you, it´s not that they want to do drugs.
the side effects of NOT taking them is what gets you.
your brain will litterally drive you mad, so taking them is easier as not taking them.

not one person willingly becomes an addict, i'm just saying and pointing out the other side of the coin.

declaring homeless people and 'druggies' as less then human or something that you DON'T sympathize with, is just plaing wrong and shows ignorance. (at least in my book)

reply to post by Stop-loss!


Can only see things getting worse as times move on, especially now with price hikes and cuts occuring in the private sector.... people will be fighting over jobs and those who depend on benefits will be stuck as to what to do because there won't be enough jobs about.......

So i'm not too sure this will work out....

reply to post by kn0wh0w


Im not gonna sympathize for people who steal from there family members and pawn their stuff to support a habit. Im not gonna sympathize for adults who neglect their kids cause they are strung out on coke, meth, herion or crack. Im not gonna sympathize for the DWI driver who kills a innocent person on the road. If i were a drug addict the last thing id want is sympathy.

Im gonna sympathize for the true victims the family members, kids etc.

But this is my opinion

There seems to be a pretty strong tendency for people to automatically make assumptions about the homeless. A knee jerk "If they are homeless they must be on drugs or somehow deserving of it" point of view.

While it is true that there are many people who fall to drugs, or to the bottle, and end up in dire social straights, the truth of the matter is that, increasingly, more and more educated, employed, sober family people are finding themselves in the predicament of being homeless.



The above "tent city" is in Reno Nevada. And the cause for it being there is NOT addiction, opportunism, or any other easy to write off generalization about the people who find themselves there...

From Seattle to Athens, Ga., homeless advocacy groups and city agencies are reporting the most visible rise in homeless encampments in a generation.

Nearly 61 percent of local and state homeless coalitions say they've experienced a rise in homelessness since the foreclosure crisis began in 2007, according to a report by the National Coalition for the Homeless. The group says the problem has worsened since the report's release in April, with foreclosures mounting, gas and food prices rising and the job market tightening.

"It's clear that poverty and homelessness have increased," said Michael Stoops, acting executive director of the coalition. "The economy is in chaos, we're in an unofficial recession and Americans are worried, from the homeless to the middle class, about their future."

Source

The article I cite here is nearly two years old but it's implications and message are just as, if not more relevant today than when it was written.

Total foreclosures in 2009 reached 2.8 million, a 21 percent increase over 2008 and a 120 percent rise compared to 2007, according to foreclosure sales Web site RealtyTrac in a year-end report released Wednesday.

Source

I do realize that it's easy, and even comfortable to paint this issue with a broad brush and to say that anyone without a home is just lazy or a drug addict. Easy because it requires zero research, and comfortable because to admit that there is a massive problem would be to acknowledge that we are all vulnerable to this fate. But failing to see reality here is a disservice to ourselves as much as it is to others.

We are all, to one degree or another, at risk.

And to address the elephant in the thread...

Yes, let's look at the reality that drugs and alcohol can lead to homelessness issue. While it is irresponsible to say that all homeless people have made their own beds, so to speak, and are addicts. It is just as socially irresponsible to say that addicts deserve to be homeless.

Many people do not understand why individuals become addicted to drugs or how drugs change the brain to foster compulsive drug abuse. They mistakenly view drug abuse and addiction as strictly a social problem and may characterize those who take drugs as morally weak. One very common belief is that drug abusers should be able to just stop taking drugs if they are only willing to change their behavior. What people often underestimate is the complexity of drug addiction—that it is a disease that impacts the brain and because of that, stopping drug abuse is not simply a matter of willpower. Through scientific advances we now know much more about how exactly drugs work in the brain, and we also know that drug addiction can be successfully treated to help people stop abusing drugs and resume their productive lives.

Some MUST READ facts about addiction - Source

Notice the word "disease". And, further notice that drug addicts can be cured and can "resume their productive lives".

I point out, again, that even though most of us have the luxury of sitting here and thinking of addicts as "them", we are all literally just one or two bad decisions away from running the risk of becoming "them".

Painting with broad brushes never produces work that stands up to scrutiny...

As a society we have obligations to one another. Here are some definitions of what society means:

1) companionship or association with one's fellows : friendly or intimate intercourse

2) a voluntary association of individuals for common ends; especially : an organized group working together or periodically meeting because of common interests, beliefs, or profession

3) an enduring and cooperating social group whose members have developed organized patterns of relationships through interaction with one another

Source

"Common ends", "working together", "common interests", "cooperation". Not a single mention of concepts like "kick those who are down" or "what's best for me and to Hell with the rest". It does none of us any good to have the sick being marginalized. In the long run it is cheaper to help than to ignore. It's good fiscal policy and the humane and social thing to do.

What I'm saying that it is a travesty, in a world where we have so much, that any person is left to sleep in the streets. And the American approach of housing the mentally ill and addicted in jails or prisons is nothing short of a national disgrace. For the amount of money we spend housing them in prisons, we could probably treat their illnesses and add them to the roles of the productive, tax paying, masses.

Ignoring this problem, or pointing fingers is not going to make it go away. We need to educate people as to the realities of these issues so that we, as a society, or a grouping of societies can work together to find answers that provide results, implement those answers, and make this into a world where we need not fear those who have fallen on hard times or fear that we, ourselves, won't one day join them.

Only when we approach things from that perspective will we rise past simply writing off the less fortunate as "drug addicts".

~Heff

When the economy melts down or government breaks down who do you think are going to survive? The people with money? In a way I feel sorry for the homeless because a lot of times it's not their choice when you fall onto really bad times, whoever said it's easy to make it big and have money is full of BS... On the other hand though I don't feel sorry at all because they are urban survivalists and when SHTF these people have a few years experience already under their belt....