WikiLeaks Iraq files reveal torture [VIDEO] FRAGO 242

Originally posted by Ahmose
talk about Genocide.........
[ yes, this is genocide]
look up the definition if you must.

And your definition of genocide is what? I'm just curious what you think it is. Go ahead, look it up.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Just to maintain the flow of threads here...

I've put together a decent list of all of the relevant threads as of the time of this release...

Other ATS Threads:
WikiLeaks Iraq files reveal torture VIDEO FRAGO 242
[109,032] deaths in Iraq [66,081] - Civilian [23,984] - Enemy
Wikileaks Iraq war logs: Every Death Mapped
WikiLeaks insurance password (possibly) incoming! (Page 44, time of release)
The Secret Iraq Files

Thanks for that Hunka...big help.

Kinda getting busy with these threads now.

CX.

Originally posted by aaron2209
I'm not attacking you at all here, i'm just curious.

How is it that you serve under liars, murderers and war criminals yet don't consider yourself part of the problem?

Again, i'm really not attacking you just trying to understand where you are at.

Because I don't serve under "liars, murderers and war criminals".

Troll much, Craftsman?

reply to post by boondock-saint


I think it is important to note based on the information released so far that many US troops were disgusted by the torture that was occurring, but there was little they could do but file a report. Many in fact did notify their superiors. Their superiors all the way to the top should be the ones to take the fall for this. They made an example out of a group of soldiers when it appears the top commanders knew these incidents were in fact occurring.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Sensationlize Much?

Did you bother to read the map key?
It shows every death....

Well, I beg your pardon! My bad. You are right, I should have only included deaths that were:

• Civilian Killed in Action > 0
  
• Not Non-Combat Related
  
• Not Criminal Activity
  
• Not Other
  
• Not Suspicious Incident
  

Wow, and that map looks SO MUCH DIFFERENT.
These are dead civilians killed by combat related events.
Is this still too "sensationalized" for ya, Slayer? Those are civilians DEAD because of this war we started. Feel better now?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/adeb68927f4f.jpg[/atsimg]

(Again, right-click, view image to see the entire image)
Heat Map version
Regular Map Version

Originally posted by aaron2209
So, if going by your way of thinking, I could be a hired hitman taking orders to kill yet not be personally responsible? The person paying me is the one and only criminal?

you seem to be continuously nixing
agendas.

being a hired killer or a mercenary
is not the same thing as being a
soldier in a war zone.

Mercs kill for money

Soldiers kill to survive
and come home to their family.

And if you are a merc
then yes you are just as guilty
as the Pentagroin.

If you are a soldier who has
an allegiance to God, Country,
Duty and Honor and follows orders,
then No.

Don't mix the 2.

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
I think it is important to note based on the information released so far that many US troops were disgusted by the torture that was occurring, but there was little they could do but file a report. Many in fact did notify their superiors. Their superiors all the way to the top should be the ones to take the fall for this. They made an example out of a group of soldiers when it appears the top commanders knew these incidents were in fact occurring.

It looks like leadership did report the incidents, but after that, what can they do? It's in the hands of the Iraqis. DC should have been the ones to put the heat on the Iraqis after the military said, "Hey, they're torturing their prisoners and their government isn't putting a stop to it."

reply to post by boondock-saint


Dude, now there's a post that you made that I can get behind.

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
I think it is important to note based on the information released so far that many US troops were disgusted by the torture that was occurring, but there was little they could do but file a report. Many in fact did notify their superiors. Their superiors all the way to the top should be the ones to take the fall for this. They made an example out of a group of soldiers when it appears the top commanders knew these incidents were in fact occurring.

absolutely
I agree with that statement 100%
star from me

Originally posted by signal2noise

Originally posted by aaron2209
I'm not attacking you at all here, i'm just curious.

How is it that you serve under liars, murderers and war criminals yet don't consider yourself part of the problem?

Again, i'm really not attacking you just trying to understand where you are at.

Because I don't serve under "liars, murderers and war criminals".

Troll much, Craftsman?

It wasn't a troll at all. Ok, in reflection that was an aggressive way to word it. I will start again. Feel free to ignore it if you wish.

How do you feel serving a Governement with this long, detailed record of human rights abuses yet don't feel at all somewhat responsible or feel you contribute in any way?

Cheers

Originally posted by signal2noise
It looks like leadership did report the incidents, but after that, what can they do? It's in the hands of the Iraqis. DC should have been the ones to put the heat on the Iraqis after the military said, "Hey, they're torturing their prisoners and their government isn't putting a stop to it."

finally
we agree on something
star for ya

reply to post by signal2noise

I'm in the US military. I've been called a liar, a murderer, a war criminal. And all here, on wonderful ATS.

you are none of those things man and i thank god there are people like you who exist in this country without you and the people like you none of us can sit here and run our mouths.

you have my utmost respect and admiration now and forever and every single person like you.

thank you for serving your country.

god speed and be safe :p

Originally posted by signal2noise

Originally posted by Ahmose
talk about Genocide.........
[ yes, this is genocide]
look up the definition if you must.

And your definition of genocide is what? I'm just curious what you think it is. Go ahead, look it up.

I know exactly what it is,
no need to look it up.

"I" Don't have 'my own' definition of genocide,
Genocide is Genocide.

Only one definition.
No opinions,
no "what I think genocide is"..

Personal opinions/ideas dont matter here..
It is what it is.
Genocide.

Very simple.

Ill wait for you to pull up the definition.
It's a very simple one.

Now, go on and read what defines "Genocide"..
and then come back and honestly tell me that this is not genocide.

You couldn't.
Because it is.

Originally posted by aaron2209
It wasn't a troll at all. Ok, in reflection that was an aggressive way to word it. I will start again. Feel free to ignore it if you wish.

How do you feel serving a Governement with this long, detailed record of human rights abuses yet don't feel at all somewhat responsible or feel you contribute in any way?

Beat on the Abo's much?

Sorry, Gus, the US ain't perfect, and we do have our faults, but I know that we're head and shoulders above most countries out there. I don't see the human rights abuses for China, North Korea or several African countries being complained about much here on ATS, but the US does seem to be in the gunsights of everyone.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by aaron2209
So, if going by your way of thinking, I could be a hired hitman taking orders to kill yet not be personally responsible? The person paying me is the one and only criminal?

you seem to be continuously nixing
agendas.

being a hired killer or a mercenary
is not the same thing as being a
soldier in a war zone.

Mercs kill for money

Soldiers kill to survive
and come home to their family.

And if you are a merc
then yes you are just as guilty
as the Pentagroin.

If you are a soldier who has
an allegiance to God, Country,
Duty and Honor and follows orders,
then No.

Don't mix the 2.

No difference in my humble opinion but I will leave it at that.

Cheers

Originally posted by Ahmose
I know exactly what it is,
no need to look it up.

"I" Don't have 'my own' definition of genocide,
Genocide is Genocide.

Only one definition.
No opinions,
no "what I think genocide is"..

Personal opinions/ideas dont matter here..
It is what it is.
Genocide.

Very simple.

Ill wait for you to pull up the definition.
It's a very simple one.

Now, go on and read what defines "Genocide"..
and then come back and honestly tell me that this is not genocide.

You couldn't.
Because it is.

Bull#. This isn't genocide.

Genocide is the systematic destruction of a group of people. Funny, when I was in Iraq, I wasn't doing anything of that sort. Horrible to admit, but if the US was committing genocide on the Iraqi people, we'd have wiped them out by now.

Looks like you're a no-go at this station. Move out and draw fire.

Originally posted by signal2noise

Originally posted by aaron2209
It wasn't a troll at all. Ok, in reflection that was an aggressive way to word it. I will start again. Feel free to ignore it if you wish.

How do you feel serving a Governement with this long, detailed record of human rights abuses yet don't feel at all somewhat responsible or feel you contribute in any way?

Beat on the Abo's much?

Never mind. That one sentence enlightens me as to where your head is at mate.

Cheers

reply to post by neo96


You did not read the thread. Posters are not attacking the soldiers, those in power who started and continue this travesty.

reply to post by signal2noise


How does the Rape of Nanking justify dropping atomic bombs on civilians?

Sorry for the off-topic post OP.

reply to post by neo96


There actually have been a few of them. Fortunately they are not the norm. The soldiers are not to blame for this; they reported the crimes. Rumsfeld and his cronies are to blame.