It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
WikiLeaks Iraq files reveal torture [VIDEO] FRAGO 242
page: 6share:
Originally posted by Asktheanimals
What was happening was just more Sunni on Shia violence and old grudges being settled in the Iraqi prisons.
That would pretty much seem the case for the most part.
What truly shocks me is that any senior US military officer would condone such treatment.
I don't see it so much as their "condoning" such treatment or activities ... more just "following orders from above", apparently to the highest of levels, to turn a blind eye and deaf ear ... yet to report or make record of it all the while. :shk:
I hafta wonder how many witnessed these type events and found themselves reconsidering their oath and Right/Ability to disobey an unlawful order. (?)
... that Order being to merely report yet Not Stop nor intervene in/with said activties.
You can bet your bottom dollar there Are/Were Many who cryed to the highest of Commands, only to be either silenced, stifled,
They are a disgrace to their uniform.
Agreed ... to an extent, depending upon individual circumstances and/or situations.
It's a damn shame when politics, along side corporate and politically-lobbied upon interests, become the rule of the day on a battlefield.
... as would seem the case with regards the US's recent and apparent ongoing desire and/or need to establish a control-factor foothold in Middle-Eastern lands, nations, countries and regions.
An even sadder and equally infuriating fact of the mater being that this is by No means the first "implementation" of such a top-down mandate of or for such.
... Vietnam, anyone?
It was the same or similar then as well ... 's long as they were merely doing it to each other. North/South, that is :shk:
... remember the CIA involvement? *wink* *wink*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If nothing else ... pause to ponder the minds, persons and beings who were witness to such, Yet, at the same time, bound by Order NOT to intervene, stop, aide or assist .... Only to "report". (?)
It's no wonder VA hospitals are overwhelmd with PTSD and other similar and/or associated mental disorders. (?)
Let's see, those animals over there did it to their own people, it was reported, and yet we're wrong? You want us out of their life, yet we didn't
do enough? Adding all stats together without actually breaking them down into causes, just another day on ATS, villanize the US military. ah well, I
just hope at some point this idiot gets his just rewards from the government.......traitors usually do.
reply to post by signal2noise
It is a war crime. But the soldiers are not responsible. They are following orders, which they believe to be lawful. Those at the top are responsible for the crimes.
It is a war crime. But the soldiers are not responsible. They are following orders, which they believe to be lawful. Those at the top are responsible for the crimes.
Ill wait for you to pull up the definition.
It's a very simple one.
Now, go on and read what defines "Genocide"..
and then come back and honestly tell me that this is not genocide.
You couldn't.
Because it is.
The defining part of something being labeled as a Genocide is the "intent, in whole, or in part" to systematically kill a specific demographic of person... be it decided by race, religion, creed, etc...
66,000 civilians dead is definitely not something anyone should just brush off... BUT... did we go in with the SPECIFIC INTENT to kill them based on an aspect of their humanity (culture, color, religion, etc)? No... we did not. This isn't my personal definition of Genocide either..this is how it's governed and ruled by the UN, and the International Criminal Courts. Without specific intent...in whole or in part...to kill those people... there is no genocide.
Look up "war crimes" - there aren't alot of them that can be applied to this war. There aren't that many categories of "war crimes" to begin with.
I present the above information "as is" ... being presented as fact.
Whether or nor they are my views/opinions is irrelevant - and I kept the information as neutral as possible in its presentation.
reply to post by adifferentbreed
Who here is villainizing the military? In fact posters are proud of the fact that soldiers reported the crimes. They were ordered to do nothing about it.
Who here is villainizing the military? In fact posters are proud of the fact that soldiers reported the crimes. They were ordered to do nothing about it.
Originally posted by signal2noise
Originally posted by Ahmose
I know exactly what it is,
no need to look it up.
"I" Don't have 'my own' definition of genocide,
Genocide is Genocide.
Only one definition.
No opinions,
no "what I think genocide is"..
Personal opinions/ideas dont matter here..
It is what it is.
Genocide.
Very simple.
Ill wait for you to pull up the definition.
It's a very simple one.
Now, go on and read what defines "Genocide"..
and then come back and honestly tell me that this is not genocide.
You couldn't.
Because it is.
Bull#. This isn't genocide.
Genocide is the systematic destruction of a group of people. Funny, when I was in Iraq, I wasn't doing anything of that sort. Horrible to admit, but if the US was committing genocide on the Iraqi people, we'd have wiped them out by now.
Looks like you're a no-go at this station. Move out and draw fire.
lol, riight.
whatever helps you sleep at night my friend.
Didn't the nurimburg(probably butchered the spelling) trials say that following orders was not good enough of an excuse for the US to condone? Is it
only because they were the losers in the war, or does the US really believe that. For the record I am a born US citizen, forced to flee to Canada
because of the real estate bubble pop in NY. I have always been against the US getting involved in any preemptive war. Around 3000 of my NY brothers
and sisters died in the 9/11 attacks, I always thought it was very hypocritical of us to condemn that, then wage war in the middle east. What they did
was so wrong, but sending our military into other countries, where plenty of collateral damage inevitably happens is just fine? I don't think so. And
I know for a fact my second cousin would be pissed that the pres used his death to rile americans into a bloodthirsty revenge frenzy like he did.
Originally posted by Ahmose
lol, riight.
whatever helps you sleep at night my friend.
See my above post, in response to your original presentation of the "genocide" question.
In short - we did not go in with the specific intent to kill those civilians because of their religion, color, race, etc.
Without intent, there is no genocide.
That's not a personal view either... that's the way the law is written.
Edit- I have NO idea why this thing is in italics.. I didn't do it on purpose, and I can't unformat it.
edit on 22-10-2010 by ConradsLaces
because: formatting
What's with all the focus on Iran Wikileaks? Hmmm?
The whole leak wreaks.
The documents indicate that Iran was a major combatant in the Iraq war, as its elite Quds Force trained Iraqi Shiite insurgents and imported deadly weapons like the shape-charged Explosively Formed Projectile bombs into Iraq for use against civilians, Sunni militants and U.S. troops. One report from 2006 claims “neuroparalytic” chemical weapons from Iran were smuggled into Iraq. Others indicate that Iran flooded Iraq with guns and rockets, including the Misagh-1 surface-to-air missile, .50 caliber rifles, rockets and much more. As the New York Times observes, Iranian agents plotted to kidnap U.S. troops from out of their Humvees — something that occurred in Karbala in 2007, leaving five U.S. troops dead. (It’s still not totally clear if the Iranians were responsible.)
Read More www.wired.com...
The whole leak wreaks.
reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross
nope the only people to blame here are the iraqis themselves they are the ones doing the deeds
saddam is dead but his legacy lives on and will live on for quite sometime.
facts behavior is learned all behavior is learned and like i said before a lilttle slap on the hands wont change that.
nope the only people to blame here are the iraqis themselves they are the ones doing the deeds
saddam is dead but his legacy lives on and will live on for quite sometime.
facts behavior is learned all behavior is learned and like i said before a lilttle slap on the hands wont change that.
Further, why is it constantly reminding us that it was Iraqi soldiers who were doing the torturing and it was the US soldiers who were apparently not
reporting it? Are they saying that US tortures were non existent, not important; which one is it Wikileaks?
Blames thrown out on Iran as being a cohort of the resistance movement in Iraq.
Blames thrown out on Iraqi security forces for being incompetent and continually torturing.
People will look past the fact that "U.S. soldiers didn't report torture", the points above will be the ones which will be emphasized the most in coming weeks.
These leaks have only done one thing, justified the war.
Blames thrown out on Iran as being a cohort of the resistance movement in Iraq.
Blames thrown out on Iraqi security forces for being incompetent and continually torturing.
People will look past the fact that "U.S. soldiers didn't report torture", the points above will be the ones which will be emphasized the most in coming weeks.
These leaks have only done one thing, justified the war.
Hello my friends,
God bless Assange. Regardless of his motives, civilians getting a picture of "War" is a very important thing to have occur. As the evidence shows, it isn't the military at fault here, it is the "Civilian" leadership. Are you repulsed? You should be. This is YOUR war. You voted in the man who started it. You sat by while evidence showed you were misled to the reasons for it. You voted in the next man who promised to bring it to an end. You sat by while the blood shed continued. If you think this is bad coming out of Iraq, wait till the totals come out from Afghanistan, if they ever do.
To my Brothers-in-Arms, you did what you had to do regardless what that was. War is hell, and no one knows what burdens you carry from it. Carry no guilt on your shoulders, you did what your country asked of you.
To those of you who have never served, now that you have a glimpse of the hell, what are YOU gonna do about it? Will you finally make some noise to get the Civilian leadership to be held accountable and to end this madness once and for all? Will you allow your self to rally to the war cry so easily next time? Will YOU carry the guilt that you have in this mess for your complacency?
No man is innocent in this worlds nastiness. Everyone has blood on their hands. When will you say enough is enough.
Judge not, love all, be at peace
With Love,
Your Brother
God bless Assange. Regardless of his motives, civilians getting a picture of "War" is a very important thing to have occur. As the evidence shows, it isn't the military at fault here, it is the "Civilian" leadership. Are you repulsed? You should be. This is YOUR war. You voted in the man who started it. You sat by while evidence showed you were misled to the reasons for it. You voted in the next man who promised to bring it to an end. You sat by while the blood shed continued. If you think this is bad coming out of Iraq, wait till the totals come out from Afghanistan, if they ever do.
To my Brothers-in-Arms, you did what you had to do regardless what that was. War is hell, and no one knows what burdens you carry from it. Carry no guilt on your shoulders, you did what your country asked of you.
To those of you who have never served, now that you have a glimpse of the hell, what are YOU gonna do about it? Will you finally make some noise to get the Civilian leadership to be held accountable and to end this madness once and for all? Will you allow your self to rally to the war cry so easily next time? Will YOU carry the guilt that you have in this mess for your complacency?
No man is innocent in this worlds nastiness. Everyone has blood on their hands. When will you say enough is enough.
Judge not, love all, be at peace
With Love,
Your Brother
I got to go through the files maybe 20 min then the site went down. Nothing shocking, no video, nothing what wasnt already told. I guesse they just
are going to keep the insurance files for themselves great freakin humanitarians go figure. Give us dog food while they eat on the cavier! I think
the insurance file has video in it.
Originally posted by Ahmose
lol, riight.
whatever helps you sleep at night my friend.
No worries, Gus. I sleep fine at night, mainly because I know what genocide is. And that wasn't it.
Nice try.
Originally posted by IAMIAM
Hello my friends,
God bless Assange. Regardless of his motives, civilians getting a picture of "War" is a very important thing to have occur. As the evidence shows, it isn't the military at fault here, it is the "Civilian" leadership. Are you repulsed? You should be. This is YOUR war. You voted in the man who started it. You sat by while evidence showed you were misled to the reasons for it. You voted in the next man who promised to bring it to an end. You sat by while the blood shed continued. If you think this is bad coming out of Iraq, wait till the totals come out from Afghanistan, if they ever do.
To my Brothers-in-Arms, you did what you had to do regardless what that was. War is hell, and no one knows what burdens you carry from it. Carry no guilt on your shoulders, you did what your country asked of you.
To those of you who have never served, now that you have a glimpse of the hell, what are YOU gonna do about it? Will you finally make some noise to get the Civilian leadership to be held accountable and to end this madness once and for all? Will you allow your self to rally to the war cry so easily next time? Will YOU carry the guilt that you have in this mess for your complacency?
No man is innocent in this worlds nastiness. Everyone has blood on their hands. When will you say enough is enough.
Judge not, love all, be at peace
With Love,
Your Brother
Maybe the muslim terrorist shouldnt of played with fire and brought this upon themselves. Just like they say AMERICAbrought on 9/11 Well now the MUSLIMS TERRORIST's chickens went home and got roosted!
reply to post by IAMIAM
What exactly would you have us do? I did all that I know of in my power. I wrote my congressmen the minute I heard war drums start beating, I attended protests and was arrested for doing so. I didn't vote for bush or obama, they both stank to high hell in my eyes. I research before I cast my vote, not that there is much I can do to help in the US part, but I am doing the same up here in canada with about the same brushoff I got back in the US. What else can we do?
What exactly would you have us do? I did all that I know of in my power. I wrote my congressmen the minute I heard war drums start beating, I attended protests and was arrested for doing so. I didn't vote for bush or obama, they both stank to high hell in my eyes. I research before I cast my vote, not that there is much I can do to help in the US part, but I am doing the same up here in canada with about the same brushoff I got back in the US. What else can we do?
reply to post by thecinic
Why do you think it is right to punish the many, for the actions of the few? Would you be behind the warcry, if everytime a christian blew up an abortion clinic, or opened fire on an abortion clinic, that war was declared on all christians in the area? Collective punishment is not right in my view, and it is the normal people that suffer the most.
Why do you think it is right to punish the many, for the actions of the few? Would you be behind the warcry, if everytime a christian blew up an abortion clinic, or opened fire on an abortion clinic, that war was declared on all christians in the area? Collective punishment is not right in my view, and it is the normal people that suffer the most.
reply to post by adifferentbreed
Some People here seem disapointed that the death toll was so low and others scream and count beans and blame it all on US forces. This leak shouldnt surprise those of us who actually paid attention to the real numbers and didnt run around like a chicken with it's head cut off screaming millions killed.
Some People here seem disapointed that the death toll was so low and others scream and count beans and blame it all on US forces. This leak shouldnt surprise those of us who actually paid attention to the real numbers and didnt run around like a chicken with it's head cut off screaming millions killed.
Originally posted by neo96
IRAQI ON IRAQI TORTURE
WIKILEAKS
AL JAZERRA
this thread is a joke and so are the majority of comments made in this thread its pretty clear none of the posters in this thread have any family or friends that have served over there.
theres only one person in this thread that i know has family member in the armed services.
what do you expect the us to do kill every last one of them?
they have been doing it for decades and you think that someone saying " he be nice to your fellow people would have stopped it? "
no.
i hate these threads theres no honesty in here whatsoever
meh
So you're suggesting an emotional attachment to loved ones negate issues like:
blog.amnestyusa.org...
"US authorities committed a serious breach of international law when they summarily handed over thousands of detainees to Iraqi security forces who, they knew, were continuing to torture and abuse detainees on a truly shocking scale."
US party leaders have seriously & hypocritically failed to uphold so called American virtues in epic fashion.. rule of law, freedom?.. LMAO.. yeah.. freedom to allow the very torture used as a pseudo-justification for GOP&DNC engineered 'evil doer' regime change .. freedom for corporate America elite like Monsanto/Schwartz-wassen (1930s nazi paramilitary), er blackwater to defile, rape & pillage above the law.
The one thing to get emotional about is the fact your loved ones are risking their lives for NOTHING while participating in an insult to humanity... the historic travesty going on before our eyes cant reasonably be justified because of ONE shady CIA guy Saddam, and ONE highly questionable day 9/11.
new topics
-
US Air Force Secretary Kendall flies in cockpit of plane controlled by AI
Aircraft Projects: 4 hours ago -
Messages of Hope – Unity through AI
Dreams & Predictions: 5 hours ago -
Happy Cinco de mayo.
General Chit Chat: 6 hours ago -
The BEAST System of Revelation has been awoken and has assumed control, at least since COVID.
New World Order: 9 hours ago
top topics
-
The Department of Justice Spies on Congress with Google Assisting.
Political Conspiracies: 15 hours ago, 8 flags -
The BEAST System of Revelation has been awoken and has assumed control, at least since COVID.
New World Order: 9 hours ago, 6 flags -
Happy Cinco de mayo.
General Chit Chat: 6 hours ago, 1 flags -
Messages of Hope – Unity through AI
Dreams & Predictions: 5 hours ago, 1 flags -
US Air Force Secretary Kendall flies in cockpit of plane controlled by AI
Aircraft Projects: 4 hours ago, 1 flags
active topics
-
US Air Force Secretary Kendall flies in cockpit of plane controlled by AI
Aircraft Projects • 1 • : billxam1 -
Happy Cinco de mayo.
General Chit Chat • 5 • : gortex -
Dugin's interview and the West's complete ignorance of Russia
New World Order • 24 • : andy06shake -
Celebs we met this weekend (Tampa Bay Comic Con)
People • 15 • : morojowig -
HOUSE VOTES 320-91 TO BAN CHRISTIAN BELIEFS IN AMERICA
Political Issues • 64 • : Terpene -
Israel rejected early Hamas offer to free all civilians if IDF didn’t enter Gaza
Middle East Issues • 186 • : FlyersFan -
Gov Kristi Noem Shot and Killed "Less Than Worthless Dog" and a 'Smelly Goat
2024 Elections • 170 • : FlyersFan -
The Acronym Game .. Pt.3
General Chit Chat • 7801 • : F2d5thCavv2 -
Leading Surgeon from Al-Shifa Hospital Dies in Israeli Custody
Middle East Issues • 60 • : gortex -
Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 3
World War Three • 5761 • : F2d5thCavv2