500,000 Public sector Jobs To Go in Biggest spending cuts since the 1920's. UK

My real concern is how far this may push, not just Britain, but other similarly affected Western (inc Japan?) states towards political scenarios that most people assumed were relegated to history, e.g. extremism, fascism, communism, nationalism, that could in turn lead to some very unpleasant experiences down the road.

Lord knows there is plenty of evidence, at least here in the UK, that there are alarming percentages of people who have been left ignorant of even basic historic facts or lessons, the perfect breeding ground once harsh economic conditions and social unfairness are put on the boil?

And what, for instance, will a British citizen think of the EU once they see that as well as the existing higher tier of taxation going from the UK into EU states, the EU and nations such as France see it fit to take that tax AND insist on retiring at 62 while Brits work to 66 or older...?

It is only the start....

Originally posted by DSSONE
reply to post by dizzylizzy

 

I do hope your son will be protesting that the cuts are not enough. I'll be sure to check the BBC and Guardian for some unbiased reports of the event.

edit on 20/10/2010 by DSSONE because: (no reason given)

As opposed to checking the Daily Mail? Or maybe the Sun?

There are two distinct arguments at work and one of them we seem to agree on. Are the cuts enough? Alas, they are not, spending will continue to rise over the next 3 years so this round of cuts will barely be enough to keep us even. The second is could the cuts have been done differently, or perhaps of a longer term? Well of course they could but if the ConDems don't start the cuts now then they won't have enough time to wipe it out of the electorate's mind in time for the next General Election. If the ConDems were actually thinking about the country instead of the next election we would not have seen such wide ranging cuts in such a short period of time.

This is why we have to resist an expanding federal government. The government hires people that it does not need in order to make them dependent and then threatens to fire them unless taxes are increased. Its a form of economic slavery. The NHS is the largest organizational workforce in the entire world layered with umpteen forms of bureaucracy. Avoiding short-term pain will lead to significant long-term pain - thats the path the U.S. chose when it bailed out the banks.

We need to completely overthrow our current political system, and think up a new one, learning from the mistakes of the past. We need to hold to account, criminally, morally and financially, all the corrupt people. If this means stripping them of everything they own, and throwing into a cell, so be it. If this means that banks and corporations no longer want to do business with the UK, then so be it, and good riddance.

Such a shame that if we even attempt it, it will come at a high price. But when has any revolution in history been free?

The coalition had the chance to do this, and failed us completely. They manipulated us to get elected then completely screwed us all. Something really needs to be done, but almost nobody cares. The few who do care are just pissing in the wind.

Originally posted by EnactedEgoTrip
We need to completely overthrow our current political system, and think up a new one, learning from the mistakes of the past. We need to hold to account, criminally, morally and financially, all the corrupt people. If this means stripping them of everything they own, and throwing into a cell, so be it. If this means that banks and corporations no longer want to do business with the UK, then so be it, and good riddance.

Such a shame that if we even attempt it, it will come at a high price. But when has any revolution in history been free?

The coalition had the chance to do this, and failed us completely. They manipulated us to get elected then completely screwed us all. Something really needs to be done, but almost nobody cares. The few who do care are just pissing in the wind.

Your post was probably how people were feeling when a brave man, Thomas Jefferson raised himself up and wrote:

"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Prophetic words indeed, the opening words of the US Declaration of Independence. Our American brothers saw the damage this backwards little country could do. I am also reminded of the words of Abraham Lincoln at the end of The Gettysburg Address:

"and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Perhaps we should look to the history of the USA to tell us how to do things better. Let's take lessons from these brave men, let's FINALLY listen to what they had to say.

reply to post by PW229


The US constitution was influenced by many people of various nationalities, none more so than our very own John Lilburne.
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by DSSONE
reply to post by dizzylizzy

 

I do hope your son will be protesting that the cuts are not enough. I'll be sure to check the BBC and Guardian for some unbiased reports of the event.

edit on 20/10/2010 by DSSONE because: (no reason given)

Just the opposite, greedy bankers got us into this mess, let them pay to get us out of it....This budget hits the poor and vunerable.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by PW229

 

The US constitution was influenced by many people of various nationalities, none more so than our very own John Lilburne.
en.wikipedia.org...

I doff my hat to you sir.

But my point stands, the founders of that new land, one which we can barely recognise NOW, had an idea about politics that rings true today.

reply to post by dizzylizzy


I agree 'greedy bankers' are partly responsible, but the revenues from taxing their profits and massive salaries, coupled with banks' willingness to lend silly amounts of money to people ill-equipped to pay it back, meant the short sighted government mortgaged our future to build a State far in excess of what would be needed if the Great British Public would simply grow up and take some responsibility for their own lives.

Originally posted by strangleholder1
reply to post by BAZ752

 

"Breeding" lol you should keep your establishment bootlicking to yourself, all your posts add up to being nothing more than a private sector rent boy.

edit on 20-10-2010 by strangleholder1 because: jesus told me to........

edit on 20-10-2010 by strangleholder1 because: Tories are SCUM!

Bollocks to you. You're talking out of your arse man. You come on here making assumptions about me, you don't even know me. Oh wait, that's it, I disagreed with your sentiments and called you out for being an arse and wishing death upon someone.

Another point, why wouldn't I support my own private sector and look after its interests? Yet because I support it, you think I'm some establishment bootlicker? HA HA HA HA HA HA

reply to post by woodwardjnr


What's the big surprise? The Conservative party said they were going to do this before they were elected and you guys voted them in anyway. I am speechless really, did you think they were joking? Maybe you should have stuck with the Labour party hmmm?

I vote for no party afterall they generally do what they want regardless of what colour banner they fly, but as the world is in the crap right now economically I can see why these cuts are needed and I'm happy that a few tiers of government departments are been stripped away...........sad that it means people will lose their jobs.

So we have a few years of things been hard, well it will help curb the "oh well lets put it on the credit card" mentality and make people...........hopefully stay within their means, I know I will have to make changes for sure but then again I can see how it does makes sense and how I have been flippant with my income and credit.

Someone had to decide when these cuts had to be made and I'm sure if Labour had retained government then they would have done something similar, all I can see is austerity is here for a while and will put the UK back on the front foot in the world once again.

Wolfie UK

The uk having 83 billion in cuts is one of the biggest crimes in history and i'll let you know exactly how shady the hole deal is, you need to to understand why we are in this mess in the first place and its realy simple, our uk government had been spending large amounts of money during the boom yrs getting heavily into debt with banks who where only too happy to lend us the money and when the banks went to the cleaners our silly goverment bailed them out using brittish tax payer money and guess what it was the banks who lent the money to bail out the banks. thats when the governemnt and the bankers should have got booted out the country.

i can tell any one on that hand on my heart that the uk does not need these cutbacks to pay of the debt and actualy by even listening to the sad explaination for it by the goverment is nothing more than perverse

READ THIS THE ONLY PARTY THAT CARES FOR THE BRITTISH PUBLIC

The ConDem Plan=£83 Billion Cut with 500,000 Job Losses vs the BNP Plan= £83 Billion Cut With No Job Losses
Thu, 21/10/2010 - 00:27 | BNP News

The British National Party’s plan to cut the budget deficit consists of slashing all expenditure not in Britain’s interests with no job losses — in marked contrast to the ConDem plan which will cause half a million people to lose their jobs and much further economic damage further down the road.

The £83 billion which the ConDem regime claims is necessary to bring down the budget deficit will bring unprecedented misery to the British public and the economy.

The 500,000 projected job losses will have a massive ripple impact upon welfare and ancillary business which are dependent on state contracts — but all of that could have been prevented by using simple logic and cutting those things not serving any useful purpose.

The British National Party has long argued that the best way to reduce the deficit is simply to cut expenditure which is not vital to Britain’s national interest.

Areas which could be cut immediately without impacting any frontline services to the British people would include:

- Halting British involvement in the Afghanistan war which would cut £5 billion a year off the deficit. The cost of that war has steadily escalated over the years, and will cost even more in the near future as the compensation payouts to the thousands wounded carry on being paid out for decades to come.

- Halting the ‘asylum’ racket which costs Britain around £4 billion per year. There are no legal asylum seekers in Britain, and all such claims are bogus. Asylum seekers who have crossed dozens of safe countries to reach soft-touch Britain are just illegal immigrants, and nothing else.

- Halting the immigration swindle which costs Britain around £13 billion per year. This figure was calculated by Migrationwatch and is a compilation of the direct costs of benefits, housing, incarceration costs, schooling and what the immigrants then send home by way of financial repatriations.

- Halting the £9.9 billion per year foreign aid budget. This figure is set to increase even more under ConDem plans to set foreign aid at 0.7 percent of Britain’s Gross National Income. There is no excuse for giving British tax money away while there are massive shortfalls at home.

- Halting British membership of the European Union which, according to estimates by the Bruges Group costs Britain at least £60.1 billion per year gross, or £50.6 billion net.

According to the Bruges Group figures, this amount is made up as follows:

- £28 billion for business to comply with EU regulations;

- £17 billion of additional food costs resulting from the Common Agricultural Policy;

- £3.3 billion - the value of the catch lost when the Common Fisheries Policy let other countries fish in our territorial waters;

- £14.6 billion gross paid into the EU budget and other EU funds.

In addition, the Bruges Group says, since 1973 the UK has made contributions to the EC budget of almost £213.6 billion gross or £66.3 billion net. By 2013, this figure will have increased to £299.8 billion gross, or £102.2 billion net.

Finally, Britain's accumulated trade deficit with the other EU member states since we joined has risen to £359.5 billion.

If the ConDem regime had the interests of the British people at heart, they would first have cut all of the expenditures listed above before putting the boot into civil servants and the economy in general.

But then again, those who are familiar with the Tory and Lib Dem leadership know that patriotism and a desire to protect Britain are the very last things those people think about

VOTE THE BNP

The whole country has been suckered by the LIBLABCON (libreal democrats, labour and the conservative party who are supposed to be 3 diffrent partys , all i can say is they are not diffrent and they are all the same

1. they are all marxists
2.communists
3.self hating scum
4.one thing they all have in common is to put the brittish public last

Have a look for yourself and see what us brits have to put up with on a daily basis and cant do anything about
www.bnp.org.uk...

Originally posted by EnactedEgoTrip

No, this country is full of cowards and bullies.

It is not just your country, and don't forget to mention the pirates and parasites.

Pirates = The muppets in your government, the banksters, the corporate fraudsters who
pass envelopes to muppets at private dinners to get things the way they want them.

Parasites = The ppl who are able bodied who go years on welfare and make a career
out of it even when jobs are available, banksters begging for bailouts who then demand
bonuses from the taxpayer money, corporations who relocate overseas and hire mostly
visa workers or illegal aliens and then bribe to get bailouts of taxpayer money.

It all comes down to what Mussolini said.

www.brainyquote.com...

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.

Here in the US we are blatant about it even hanging Fascist symbols in government buildings.

en.wikipedia.org...

No wonder they think of most of the citizens as sheep.

At least the British gov. is starting to realize that a country can't spend money on social services if there is no money. It is a hard lesson and not fun, but that is the way it goes when your broke. America needs to learn this lesson and lay off at least 1 million fed and state employees.

You keep the police, teachers and fire fighters. You start by limiting the number of aids politicians can have, you then cut the IRS by 75 percent, and then start looking for people that are unneeded and overpaid. In my experience they are not hard to find in the government, and to be honest, I am tired of paying them to sit on their butts being unproductive.

reply to post by russ212


We cant afford the police we have anymore and we are gonna loose a sizeable chunk of the uk policeforce and we cant afford to build the schools never mind the teachers and our higher education budget went from 12 billion to around 4 billion.Meanwhile we give billions to the eu at around 60 billion a yr and foriegn aid to countries that hate us and also to countries like india and china that have space programs and nuclear weapons, who make more money as a country than we do.

i know where we can save money and so does the brittish public.

Take us out the EU that save us 60 billion - our cuts and 500,000 initial job lose's itl be more later as the sums dont ad up for the goverment make 23 billion to save ok get us out of afganistan as it has nothing to do with terrorism because al uk terrorist have been uk citizens(muslims) only thats another 5 billions saved

ok now so i need to make 18 billion in cuts to get my country back hmmm lets get ride of all the bogus asylum seekers as the official rules on asylum say you need to get to the first safest country and not travel 10 or 15 safe country just to get to soft touch uk thats another 4 billion a yr they cost us saved and then stop all foriegn aid to countries becuase we are broke and cant afford the intrest on the debt it costs us and i think that im left with a one billion to find aww what the heck i think the banks can sort that out ohhh im gd

Originally posted by jexmo
500,000 people losing their jobs means that those 500,000 people wont be spending their wages anymore because they won't have that money.

It's not necessarily 500,000 people losing jobs, it's 500,000 posts. Not exactly the same thing. The Civil Service loses over a hundred thousand employees a year due to leavers, retirement etc and these "job losses" can be easily done by simply not backfilling posts as they become available.

Besides, much of the civil service do not deliver value for money, are unproductive and these 500,000 posts are merely the ones created since 1997 when Labour used the civil service to reduce unemployment artificially without really creating proper jobs.

I am in total support of these cuts (except maybe the Defence cuts). It's needed and should have been done with or without the deficit.

Originally posted by stumason

Besides, much of the civil service do not deliver value for money, are unproductive and these 500,000 posts are merely the ones created since 1997 when Labour used the civil service to reduce unemployment artificially without really creating proper jobs.

And why did they do that?

Because The Tories had decimated our manufacturing industry and had put that many people on the dole.
Labour thought that doing so would get people out of the benefit system and back working.
Unfortunately these new jobs generated no money and became a drain on society.

Yes Labour's incompetencies, naivety and inadequacies have contributed massively to the complete shambles and mess we are in at present but so has the same failings of previous Tory governments.

Both have failed us miserably.

It is time for REAL change.

reply to post by Freeborn


You do like to always blame the Tories for "decimating" industries, but manufacturing industries continued to decline under 13 years of Labour. Car producers for example, which you would think a Labour Government would prop up, were left to die a death. Ship building declined under Labour and submarine manufacturing had to be re-learnt due to a massive gap between the last Trafalgar produced and the new Astutes.

I know it's fashionable to blame the Tories for everything, but Labour have hardly been the champions of the working class or british industry either. Two sides of the same coin.

Bottom line is, our manufacturing has declined due to us being part of the EU and the WTO. We play by the rules and get shafted, whereas people like the French, Germans and Chinese will flout the rules we are killing ourselves with and escape punishment.

For example, Siemens has bought a company in the Uk that was a world leader in producing something (I forget what..it's late). they closed the UK factory, took all the designs and patents back to germany and now have signed a deal with their Unions not to sack any German worker if they can get rid of others in the rest of the EU, in clear contravention of EU rules. Will they be punished? No, but you can bet your bottom dollar if a UK business did that they'd be hauled in front of an EU court quicker than you can say "Oh bugger..."

Then there is the French reluctance to prvatise and open up their markets in Power, transport, telecoms and farming, despite being obliged to do so and only the UK has followed the rules to the letter, landing us in a huge pile of crap. I bet the rest of Europe is laughing their socks off at convincing the UK to castrate itself, the only way they could do it after 1,000 years of them trying.

reply to post by stumason


I'm afraid you might be missing the point; I don't blame The Tories for everything, I blame them and Labour equally!
In addition I blame our outdated and unrepresentative electoral and parliamentary systems which has produced the self-serving Conservative - Labour merry-go round and promotes party allegiance and personal interest at the expense of the electorates wishes or best concerns.