Too Many People for an Inside 9/11 Job

Originally posted by The_Zomar
Ever hear of the Manhattan project? That required far more people than 9-11 would have and it was kept a secret.

I get your point but i don't know if its a fair comparison.

The country was at war, not war like today a total war. Every aspect of life was related to the war.
Everyone did their part.

People trusted the government back then and they obeyed.

People knew to keep their mouths shut.

A lot of the people directly involved with the bomb lived in towns created for just the workers.

No internet.

People were proud to be trusted

They wanted to win the war

Fact 1.
9/11 happened.

Fact 2.
A bunch of people were involved.

Fact 3.
Nobody has admitted to it except a fat, short nosed "Bin Laden" in a CIA produced video, and a supposed mastermind who confessed under torture and confirmed it as a broken man wearing an electric shock belt.

Whoever did it, you can be sure the minions who'd talk are long dead, so a lack of confessions from American conspirators proves nothing. We have no meaningful confessions from anyone else either.

Ok lets look at things...the past does tell us some things of what happens to people who know to much...and it is happening in the case of 9/11 also.

When President John F. Kennedy threatened the "High Cabal" by toppling their Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, firing Allen Dulles as head of the CIA, and making plans to take control of the Federal Reserve System, he was assassinated. The U.S. Secret Service, in violation of their own rules and procedures,

in collusion with the ruling plutocrats, deliberately failed to protect President Kennedy. The Secret Service knowingly escorted him in an open car around a hairpin turn into the sights of paid assassins, who fired by military-style triangulation.
In the aftermath of the bloody assassination of President Kennedy in Dallas on November 22, 1963, over 200 eyewitnesses and sources were themselves murdered, obliterating possible testimony, contrary to the falsified Warren Report.
JFK was assassinated because the "High Cabal" wanted to regain its stranglehold on the country.
The Kennedy "assassination has demonstrated that most of the major events of world

significance are masterfully planned and orchestrated by an elite coterie of enormously powerful people who are not of one nation, one ethnic grouping, or one overridingly important business group. They are a power unto themselves for whom those others work. Neither is this power elite of recent origin. Its roots go deep into the past.”
L. Fletcher Prouty. JFK: The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy

source

the numbers of people whom get killed after these events is just passed by as after the fact,

On Sunday August 31, 2008, only a few days ago, Kenny Johannemann, allegedly committed suicide by shooting himself in the head.

Daily News Reports on Johannemann's suicide

Like William Rodriguez, Kenny Johannemann was working as a janitor at the World Trade Center towers on September 11th and was an eye witness to explosions in the towers. In the video linked below Kenny clearly states that a second explosion occurred in the second tower 10 minutes after an explosion in the first tower. As he speaks the towers are visible behind him, both have been hit by planes, but neither has been demolished yet.

When questioned further Kenny makes it clear that he is NOT talking about airplane impacts, but rather explosions in the basement. He describes how he was down in the basement and witnessed the elevator blow up and he dragged a man out whose skin was hanging off. This is identical to the story that Rodriguez tells and Kenny may have been helping Rodriquez with the rescue efforts.

Brasscheck TV's video of Johannemann's TV interview on 9/11

Kenny is recognized by ABM Janitorial Services, his employer

Johannemann's suicide note seems very suspicious to me ...

Photograph of Johannemann's suicide note

I'm guessing that Kenny has been killed as a message to other witnesses.

The perpetrators must be getting very anxious if they have begun to silence key witnesses.

My response to the perpetrators:

Be afraid, be very afraid

investigating the death of a Minot Air Force Base airman who died while on leave in Virginia.

Base officials say 20-year-old Airman 1st Class Todd Blue died Monday while visiting family members in Wytheville, Virginia.

Blue enlisted in the Air Force in March of last year and joined the 5th Security Forces at Minot Air Force Base the following August.

Information on how Blue died has not been released.

Dr. David Graham, a dentist in Shreveport, Louisiana, said that he had met three of the 9/11 hijackers a year before the attacks at a home in Shreveport. He became suspicious of them (he thought they were planning attacks on nearby Barksdale AFB) and contacted the FBI.

The man who hosted the hijackers in Shreveport was a Pakistani named Jamal Khan. In 2004, Khan pled guilty to hiding cash transfers to Pakistan, and in an unusual plea deal the government stated that nothing in this deal would absolve Khan from any future prosecution regarding the attacks of September 11.

Dr. Graham apparently met Khan in conjunction with the 9/11 conspirators and was set to testify against him at a deportation hearing sometime in 2004, following Khan's conviction on the money transfer charge. He was also trying to publish a manuscript about meeting the three men and his contacts with the FBI.

source

LIST SO FAR

Barry Jennings (Eyewitness to explosions and bodies inside WTC7) -- Undisclosed causes

Kenneth Johannemann (Eyewitness to explosions inside WTC, Saw no airplanes hit but just saw "floors blow up") -- Gunshot to the head, ruled a suicide

Beverly Eckert (Wife of 9/11 WTC Victim, Earwitness to WTC Explosion, Refused hush money) -- Airplane crash

Prasanna Kalahasthi (Wife of 9/11 "Flight 11 Passenger") -- Suicide by hanging

David Graham (Dentist who saw three of the 9/11 Hijackers with Pakistani businessman in Shreveport, Louisiana) -- Murdered (Poisoned with anti-freeze)

Paul Smith (Pilot of WABC7's 9/11 "International Shot" Chopper) -- Car accident

Michael H. Doran (9/11 Victims Lawyer) -- Airplane crash

Bertha Champagne (Longtime babysitter for 911 Perp Marvin Bush's family) -- Crushed by a car

Christopher Landis (Former Operations Manager for Safety Service Patrol for the Virginia Department of Transportation, Interviewed by makers of "The Pentacon", Gave makers of "The Pentacon" a photo collection, Involved in the response to the Pentagon attack) -- Suicide

John P. O'Neill (FBI Counter-terrorism expert, Obsessed with catching Osama Bin Laden, Suspected Clinton/Bush/FBI complicity in the cover-up and protection of Bin Laden) -- Died in the WTC on 9/11

Deborah Palfrey (Ran an escort service that had 911 Perps on it's list) -- Suicide by hanging

David Wherley (US General who ordered fighter jets to scramble on 9/11) -- Train crash

Un-named Ticket Agent (Boston Logan Ticket Agent who checked Atta and Alomari) -- Suicide

Suzanne Jovin (Yale Student who had a thesis about Osama Bin Laden, Her thesis adviser was an intelligence operative) -- Murdered (Killer unknown)

Perry Kucinich (Brother of Congressman who advocated new 9/11 investigation) -- Fell down

Salvatore Princiotta (9/11 FDNY Firefighter from Ladder 9) -- Murdered

Ezra Harel (Chairman of the Israeli Company That Handled Security For All 9/11 Airports) -- Heart attack

Bruce Ivins (Patsy in the 9/11-linked "Anthrax" Case) -- Drug overdose

source

there are other examples...but hey to people who belive that it was just some Arabs with box cutters who could not fly their way around in a cessna...but cuold perform great aerobatics feats with a jumbo jet...Shame on you.

reply to post by plube


That list is pretty freaky. Some of those deaths seem to work out in the favor of the terrorists (such as stabbings of Yale students reporting on Bin Laden and death by antifreeze of the dentist) and others seem to be quite bizzare.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


yes the video i embedded has that whole transcript if you bothered to watch it

and yes mineta didnt know what plane or the whole context but he wittnesed it

and yes dick gave an order that resulted in not shooting down a plane that crashed in to pentagon or any other order that yielded any result for that matter...

and yes dick´s testimony is not to be found anywhere since it was done behind closed doors
so technicly all we have is minetas word that puts dick in a good/bad light,...


how is it out of context ?

and on a further notice i read that from a news paper and not a conspiracy site

seams to me you are the one that dont want to see the full context here ,
you have more then your avarage ammount of military / crisis management
personel deployed for this type of catastophe yet nothing usefull got done,

riddle me this : how is that even possible,. .. twise

same goes for londons 7/7

reply to post by zerbot565


Can I jump in, and ask you to explain how you get this, after reading through that transcript w/Mineta??:

...and yes dick gave an order that resulted in not shooting down a plane that crashed in to pentagon ...

Because, as I read the full transcript, and putting it into context....the "standing order" at the time (unbeknownst to Mineta, at that moment --- although he inferred it, again from context) WAS to shoot down confirmed hijacked commercial airliners that were approaching the D.C. area.

The events in NYC were obvious, by then....and "dick" wanted American 77 (even if he didn't know the exact flight number) stopped. They didn't make it (the interceptors) in time.

The tone and questions from the aide....when it was "ten miles out" and "do the orders still stand" seem obvious to me...this aide KNEW that, if they managed to intercept and shoot it down at TEN MILES OUT, there would be a great deal of collateral damage inflicted to the outlying neighborhoods and suburbs.

Isn't that obvious to anyone else???

Keep in mind, too....that the most likely concern, in the heat and uncertainty of the moment, was the "House" (White House)...since it's such an obvious PR symbol. There are reports of orders to "protect the House at all costs" having been delivered down the chain of command.

Personally, I suspect the Capitol Building as more likely, since Congress was in session (and in the midst of being evacuated). Also, from the air (I have a certain amount of experience here) that building is far, far easier to spot than the WH. (**)..

(**) Oops --- edit to clarify, I meant that to reflect United 93's probable target...since clearly American 77 took concerted aim at, and succeeded in hitting, the Pentagon

Also, would (in light of the later posts below) like clarification as to the provenance and validity of the "seattletruth" and "jonesreport" info.

One has to question even whether Al-Qaeda is what it is said to be.

Formation of Al-Qaida, US-Israel Collaboration
www.opinion-maker.org...

That is just plain naive.

Why do sheeple always go to “ to many people to keep the secret “

ALL of the REAL“OUTTED” conspiracies show the same pattern. That is just a very few knew all the details of the complete plan. i.e. Manhattan Project, Tuskegee Airmen Project, Gulf of Tonkin Incident, I could go on and on with a litany of REAL CONSPIRICIES, proven factual, part of our history, that took hundreds and sometimes thousands of people to “Pull-off” including the Main Stream Media.

Why would you even consider that it could not happen again when the FACTS show it has occurred so many times in our past.

It is, and always has been like bricks in a pyramid. - the bricks on the lower levels (the base) can only “see” the bricks that surround themselves, It is only the Pinnacle that can “see” all the bricks.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by zerbot565
riddle me this

why did your vice president give the stand down order several times ?

Riddle me this- why do you supposed "truthers" have an overwhelming need to manipulate and misrepresent the evidence to your liking? You are deliberately quoting this out of context to give the false impression you want to give, but when we look at the full quote, an entirely different story than the one being artfully presented emerges:

MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?

MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --

MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --

MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.

MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah.

MR. MINETA: And so I was not aware that that discussion had already taken place. But in listening to the conversation between the young man and the vice president, then at the time I didn't really recognize the significance of that.

And then later I heard of the fact that the airplanes had been scrambled from Langley to come up to DC, but those planes were still about 10 minutes away. And so then, at the time we heard about the airplane that went into Pennsylvania, then I thought, "Oh, my God, did we shoot it down?" And then we had to, with the vice president, go through the Pentagon to check that out.

MR. HAMILTON: Let me see if I understand. The plane that was headed toward the Pentagon and was some miles away, there was an order to shoot that plane down.

MR. MINETA: Well, I don't know that specifically, but I do know that the airplanes were scrambled from Langley or from Norfolk, the Norfolk area. But I did not know about the orders specifically other than listening to that other conversation.

MR. HAMILTON: But there very clearly was an order to shoot commercial aircraft down.

MR. MINETA: Subsequently I found that out.

...so the stand down order was for commercial aircraft and there was a specific order to shoot down the hijacked aircraft. Mineta even said he first believed the plane that crashed in Shanksville had been shot down.

Those damned fool conspiracy web sites you get this drivel from never told you this, did they?

You know, you present this as water tight evidence when if seen in its full context, it cleary isn.t.

The video of Mineta's testimony was heavily censored. Large parts were missed out. One thing which is definitely not clearly established in this video clip is which ordesr are being referred to when the young man asks Cheney, whether the orders still stand.

In fact, there is a video of a subsequent interview with Mneta by 9/11 Truth Seattle, in which he clearly states that when he overheard the conversation about the young man asking whether the order still stands, he thought it was about an order to shoot down, but that subequently he found out it was an order to stand down.
www.jonesreport.com...

9/11 was not an Inside Job. It was a False Flag event perpetrated by elements within various international as well as national Intelligence Agencies. "Inside Job" is a misleading phrase because only a very select few of US Government officials would have been in on the Conspiracy.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by zerbot565

 

Can I jump in, and ask you to explain how you get this, after reading through that transcript w/Mineta??:

...and yes dick gave an order that resulted in not shooting down a plane that crashed in to pentagon ...

Because, as I read the full transcript, and putting it into context....the "standing order" at the time (unbeknownst to Mineta, at that moment --- although he inferred it, again from context) WAS to shoot down confirmed hijacked commercial airliners that were approaching the D.C. area.

The events in NYC were obvious, by then....and "dick" wanted American 77 (even if he didn't know the exact flight number) stopped. They didn't make it (the interceptors) in time.

The tone and questions from the aide....when it was "ten miles out" and "do the orders still stand" seem obvious to me...this aide KNEW that, if they managed to intercept and shoot it down at TEN MILES OUT, there would be a great deal of collateral damage inflicted to the outlying neighborhoods and suburbs.

Isn't that obvious to anyone else???

Keep in mind, too....that the most likely concern, in the heat and uncertainty of the moment, was the "House" (White House)...since it's such an obvious PR symbol. There are reports of orders to "protect the House at all costs" having been delivered down the chain of command.

Personally, I suspect the Capitol Building as more likely, since Congress was in session (and in the midst of being evacuated). Also, from the air (I have a certain amount of experience here) that building is far, far easier to spot than the WH. (**)..

(**) Oops --- edit to clarify, I meant that to reflect United 93's probable target...since clearly American 77 took concerted aim at, and succeeded in hitting, the Pentagon

edit on 21 September 2010 by weedwhacker because: (**)

What may seem obvious to you about the question to Cheney of whether the orders still stand, may also not be the truth. In fact, according to Mineta himself your assumption is wrong.

The video of his testimony is heavily censored, lots of parts are left out. And it does leave the viewer with the impression that the order referred to was an order to shoot down.

However, in an interview with 9/11 Truth Seattle, Mineta clearly states that although he did at first think it must be about an order to shoot down, he later learned it was about an order to stand down.

www.jonesreport.com...

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
9/11 was not an Inside Job. It was a False Flag event perpetrated by elements within various international as well as national Intelligence Agencies. "Inside Job" is a misleading phrase because only a very select few of US Government officials would have been in on the Conspiracy.

edit on 21/9/2010 by Dark Ghost because: i catn spell

I can't agree with you that to call it an 'inside job' is misleading. Some of the very highest people in the Government must have been complicit, and there must have been many US people involved in the implementation. I guess it's possibly just semantics, but for me that qualifies as an inside job.

reply to post by weedwhacker


The NORAD tapes also specifically speak of an order to stand down.
activistnyc.wordpress.com...

reply to post by weedwhacker


how many airplanes does the u.s have that has intercept capabilities

how many airforce bases does the u.s have that have thouse planes

what is the avarrage speed of an interceptor vs commercial airliner

how long does it take to scramble a team ready for flying not to mention the all the personel that was allready flying or ready to fly cause of exerzises

do radars follow air traffic and how many radars does u.s have for this

can airplanes be tracked by radar with out their inboard responders / gps trackers

how long where the commercial airlines alowed to fly freely with out interception and why

how many ground to air missiles does the u.s have with intercept capabilities withinn its own boarders

how come with all the toys you guys get from tax money none of them where used in propper fasion or intended usage

as far as i know non of it makes any sence when you look at what you could have done but did not do.

reply to post by wcitizen


That link is doubtful, as to its veracity and claims. At least, based on this paragraph:

If the timestamps on the tapes are to be believed, an explicit no-shoot order was given after Flight 93 had crashed, but while it was still believed that there might be other attacking planes in the air. As we shall see later, there is reason to question the timestamp. Perhaps the no-shoot order might actually have been given earlier, at a time when it could actually have caused harm? But for now I’ll assume that the timestamp is accurate.

After UAL 93 was down. Just after 10:00 EDT. Almost a half-hour after the National Airspace System order to shut down was issued. (EDIT - that occured ot 09:45. However, a 'Ground Stop" order --- NOTAM --- had already been issued at 09:30, for all departures from East Coast airports.) And the article seems vague, and accusatory, with much innuendo dropping --- rather than insightful and investigative. My first glance and impressions....

It is true that in the confusion it was not certain IF there were others that had been compromised, that were still airborne. But certainly, no one will argue that attention was heightened, and being paid and ANY airplane that did not cooperate (any large airplane, anyway) with ATC would have triggered a response.

FWIW....there are R.O.E. and procedures in intercept situations. It isn't "Aim, Fire, then Look". An up close and tight formation will be flown by the interceptor, to actually LOOK in the cockpit. Of course, any airplane that is still under normal control, the crew also is trained in the procedures. And certainly will comply. FIRST step is two-way radio communication establishment, though. (Assuming no mechanical difficulties in that area).

Further, unless a combat situation (and maybe not even then) I was under the impression that the fighter must always get permission to fire --- confirmation from ground controllers.

It seems a lot of "conspiracy" sites think that it's a bunch of cowboy jet-jocks out there, all on their own and fully autonomous. Hollywoods distortions, once again.

reply to post by zerbot565


@zerbot565, if you're really serious about that load of questions, and answers....rapid-fire as they were....not all of the answers are going to be found by perusing the Interwebs. Lots and lots of misinformaiton out there in cyber-land.

A pretty well-written book (just one of many) is available. Written by an airline pilot, so it's relatable for other pilots as well, but in a way that's certainly understandable to the lay public.

Fairly recent, too I believe --- 2007.

"Touching History", by Lynn Spencer.

An excerpt is in this link (publisher wishes to sell copies, obviously): cleartheskies.com...

And more blurbs from the publisher: cleartheskies.com...

If there is a library near you, you might find it stocked there, so it's free!!

(Just like the Interwebs...oh, wait.....)

reply to post by weedwhacker

It seems a lot of "conspiracy" sites think that it's a bunch of cowboy jet-jocks out there, all on their own and fully autonomous. Hollywoods distortions, once again.

yes but at the same time you have numerous national and international papers describing this sort of automatic behaviur and rifle jocks around iraq , afganistan and what not wars where they ve had their "fun" and yes some of them incident have come to light but it seams a bit strange that at one point its all merry men and code of honour and no one left behind yet at the same time you have had people running amok and done freely what they ve wanted from collecting fingers to just massacre families for kicks,

seams abit naive in my opinion

edit

i have a fair estimate of the 8 first questions, do you have ?
and yes i live 2 blocks from a library




1. 2000 +/-
2. not a real number but a map upload.wikimedia.org...
3. mach 1.2+ vs 0.7
4. for that day id say less then 15 min
5.couldent find an reliable number but wiki had a quote where they mentioned :
over 90% of the U.S. airspace is covered by radar and often by multiple radar systems.
6.yes
7.20min-2h depending on plane
8.more then 10k at a cost of less then 90k a pop

Originally posted by wcitizen
You know, you present this as water tight evidence when if seen in its full context, it cleary isn.t.

The video of Mineta's testimony was heavily censored. Large parts were missed out. One thing which is definitely not clearly established in this video clip is which ordesr are being referred to when the young man asks Cheney, whether the orders still stand.

In fact, there is a video of a subsequent interview with Mneta by 9/11 Truth Seattle, in which he clearly states that when he overheard the conversation about the young man asking whether the order still stands, he thought it was about an order to shoot down, but that subequently he found out it was an order to stand down.
www.jonesreport.com...

Your mistake here was going to Alex Jones for your information. Jones is one of the most notorious of the con artists putting out paranoid drivel to instigate false public unrest. There is no way, shape, or form that I can take that nutball seriously.

For instance, take a look at the foolowing excerpt from Alex Jones-

"Mineta confirmed his statements with reporters, saying "When I overheard something about 'the orders still stand' and so, what I thought of was that they had already made the decision to shoot something down."

Norman Mineta made it clear to reporters-- who verified his quotes in written text alongside him-- that Mineta was indeed talking about a stand down order not to shoot down hijacked aircraft headed for the Pentagon."

First off, how the heck do you get "they issued a stand down order" from when Mineta saying "he thought they just shot something down"? Second of all, when he's asking "do the orders still stand", he wasn't even mentioning a stand down order. He was asking whether a previously issued order was still in effect, and with him being Secretary of Transportation, it would have been the immediate grounding of all civilian aircraft. Jones is transposing "orders still stand" into "stand down order", and then inserts "military stand down order", all on his own. Not that it matters, since fighters from bases in Massachussets and Virginia were scrambled to intercept the aircraft and they were seen over the skies of NYC shortly after the impacts, so the proof there was a shoot down order is undeniable.

I've been saying from day one that the conspriacy movement is being fueled 100% by disinformation from these damned fool conspiracy web sites, and you haven't exactly proven me wrong here.

Originally posted by brokedown
That is just plain naive.

Why do sheeple always go to “ to many people to keep the secret “

ALL of the REAL“OUTTED” conspiracies show the same pattern. That is just a very few knew all the details of the complete plan. i.e. Manhattan Project, Tuskegee Airmen Project, Gulf of Tonkin Incident, I could go on and on with a litany of REAL CONSPIRICIES, proven factual, part of our history, that took hundreds and sometimes thousands of people to “Pull-off” including the Main Stream Media.

Nothing like the conspiracy people relying on apples to oranges comparisons to act as an alarm to show they're getting desperate in their struggle keeping their conspriacy stories alive . Just HOW was building an atomic bomb and training black pilots any conspiracy? They were wartime projects they wanted to keep secret from the enemy, and even then, once the a-bomb was dropped and black pilots started showing up out of nowhere it was obvious to everyone involved what they had been up to.

Seeing that you're ADMITTING you know about these events, you're only acknowledging there'd be no way they could keep any so-called "controlled demolitions" conspiracy secret.

reply to post by quantum_flux

It would be quite easy really.....people in charge tell certain people the facts they need to know then those people tell less facts to their subordinates and so on down the chain.........it happens every day and the people at the bottom of the chain have no idea WHY they have just finished a task that they were asked to do.

911 wasn't so hard to keep from anyone involved BEFORE the fact. Afterwards the people had to be monitored but were either snuffed out or threatened ("I'll kill your family" etc)........
This sort of # has been happening for all our lives.........democracy is the biggest joke about all of us.......the governments of ALL democratic nations do NOT rule that country.

Banks, Pharmaceuticals, Military, Media - the people that control these, actually tell the governments what to do. If you don't believe that then you are naive.