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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:07 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


You accused me of flip flopping.

I am asking for a specific in thread flip flop, but I appreciate knowing if you cannot locate one (I thought I had been quite steady and sure in my convictions here) you will continue to misrepresent me.

All of my posts in this thread are accessible in order by clicking the button at the bottom of this post that says THREAD.




edit on 18-9-2010 by hotbakedtater because: add




posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:11 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 



Now this one I will answer. I called you a misogynist so please quote me correctly.


Oh, for the love of...

Misogyny: Hatred of women.

You call me a Misogynist = You call me a Woman Hater.

It is the WORD'S DEFINITION.


If you don't know what the word MEANS, then you shouldn't waive it around like a kid that has found its dad's Gun.


You can state that the feminist movement "programmed" me to think that a father has an obligation to his children. Funny that. It's a concept that predates feminism by a few thousand years. But, hey, bending facts to make yourself look or feel correct is an understandable shortcoming.


And You can state that Women Should be allowed into the Workforce, Voting Rights, Etc... It's a concept that Goes *AGAINST* this "Historic" concept that you are using to Justify your perspective.. but Hey...


We all have to pick something... I guess you like picking Cherries.


My view of reality is quite accurate in this case.


Wrong.


I am dealing in realities.


Wrong II


You are harping about your conceptions of fairness.


I am harping about *LEGAL EQUALITY*

Stick to the topic.


Your view is actually atypical of people in this day and age in that it tends to reflect what YOU want, what YOU desire, and what YOU believe to be right.


Oh, the world is America, eh?


It does not, however factor in the greater good or the needs of others. Count yourself proud amongst the MTV generation. You represent them to a T.


I distinctly remember MTV Pushing Women's "Rights" issues...


So, by that metric.... you are so CRAZY FREAKING WRONG that it baffles me.


-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by mayertuck

Originally posted by SeenMyShare
I can only supply my own thoughts to this topic as they relate to me.
When my son's father sent his first $15 check and no more I decided then and there that I would provide for my son. I asked no one for help (including his father) and did what I had to do. I worked construction, I worked a sewing factory job, I babysat, I cleaned motels, and I became an auto mechanic. I did whatever job I had to do to make sure my son ate, had a roof and warm bed, had clothing and hot and cold running water.

I've done the same for my step son when his parents wouldn't stand up.


Amen and I am glad you did what you had to. It is sad he didn't step up. But you took responsibility for your choices and I commend you for that. Gold star.
Where is MY gold star? I raised two kids for five years alone. I guess only gold stars for parents who did right AND agree with you?


Why are gold stars being handed out for fufilling responsibility and duty, anyway?

Supporting your spawn is not something that is over and above what is expected, it IS what is expected at the basest level.

And I think this also goes to the heart of some things.

Do men/women who raise their kids from "bad" mom/dadss somehow feel they deserve a gold star for doing so?



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:15 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 



Supporting your spawn is not something that is over and above what is expected, it IS what is expected at the basest level.


And this does not apply to Abortion.... How exactly?

(Second line is Curt)

-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by Edrick

Oh, for the love of...
Misogyny: Hatred of women.
You call me a Misogynist = You call me a Woman Hater.
It is the WORD'S DEFINITION.
If you don't know what the word MEANS, then you shouldn't waive it around like a kid that has found its dad's Gun.


Definition or not, using quotation marks denotes a quote. Stick with the program.

Oh, and an interesting little faux paus on your behalf - a child is an "it"?


Originally posted by Edrick

And You can state that Women Should be allowed into the Workforce, Voting Rights, Etc... It's a concept that Goes *AGAINST* this "Historic" concept that you are using to Justify your perspective.. but Hey...
We all have to pick something... I guess you like picking Cherries.


Wow way to bend what I've said, historical accuracy, and the topic of the thread. You get bonus points for this one.


Originally posted by Edrick

I am harping about *LEGAL EQUALITY*


No you are ranting about abortion and seeking to create a false equity in response to your personal distaste for the practice. I've explained, over and over, the fact that refusing to support a child /= the preterm abortion of a child. Rather than acknowledge this obvious and simple fact, you continue to obfuscate.


Originally posted by Edrick

Stick to the topic.


Indeed.


Originally posted by Edrick

Oh, the world is America, eh?


Again with the words in my mouth. You really need to learn some new tricks. The two you know are tiresome.


Originally posted by Edrick

I distinctly remember MTV Pushing Women's "Rights" issues...
So, by that metric.... you are so CRAZY FREAKING WRONG that it baffles me.


And yet you've managed to include MTV in your list of apparent feminist plots. So you have been influenced by it.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
Men already have reproductive rights.

They have the right to keep their pants zipped if they can't step up to the plate.


The same could be said about the woman.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:28 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 



Definition or not, using quotation marks denotes a quote. Stick with the program.


No... the Quote Tags denote a Quote.

Like So:

Quotation marks or inverted commas (informally referred to as quotes and speech marks) are punctuation marks used in pairs to set off speech, a quotation, a phrase, or a word.



Did you see your Fail?

(Probably Not)


Oh, and an interesting little faux paus on your behalf - a child is an "it"?


Whatever.


Wow way to bend what I've said, historical accuracy, and the topic of the thread. You get bonus points for this one.


No rebuttal to my point then?

Great, I consider the matter settled.


No you are ranting about abortion and seeking to create a false equity in response to your personal distaste for the practice. I've explained, over and over, the fact that refusing to support a child /= the preterm abortion of a child. Rather than acknowledge this obvious and simple fact, you continue to obfuscate.


When do you stop being Wrong all of the time?


Again with the words in my mouth. You really need to learn some new tricks. The two you know are tiresome.


Oh, you mean that you don't live in America?


And yet you've managed to include MTV in your list of apparent feminist plots. So you have been influenced by it.


The funny part is, you think that you just made a point.

-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:30 AM
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Back in November of 2007 the plaintiff in the OP case lost his appeal.

en.wikipedia.org...

The court cited the Fourteenth Amendment.

I do not think the idea of a male opt out is going over well with the courts.

Males have not been denied a pregnancy opt out.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:33 AM
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reply to post by Edrick
 


Historically women have always worked as hard as the men. Harder when historically women have also shouldered the childcare duties in addition to the other duties she has historically performed.

Remember pioneer women?

Heard of prehistoric peoples?

Hard work is not always defined by sweat.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by Edrick
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 



Supporting your spawn is not something that is over and above what is expected, it IS what is expected at the basest level.


And this does not apply to Abortion.... How exactly?

(Second line is Curt)

-Edrick

It directly relates to the Original Post and the original topic, which is the premise upon which I am debating.

Was it supposed to relate to abortion?



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 



Historically women have always worked as hard as the men.


Wrong... so very, very wrong.


Harder when historically women have also shouldered the childcare duties in addition to the other duties she has historically performed.


Childcare "Duties" Eh?

You mean like feeding the children food that she did not earn.... or do you mean cleaning the house that she did not earn?


Remember pioneer women?


You know why you never hear the phrase "Pioneer Men"?

Because Pioneer Implies Men.

You have to add "Woman" onto the tail end of the word so that everyone KNOWS that you are referring to a female, instead of the TYPICAL PIONEER... Which would be Male.


Heard of prehistoric peoples?


Does this mean anything?


Hard work is not always defined by sweat.


Playing Wet Nurse with Some kids that you had, is not equal to the Toil of Labor that MEN must endure to SURVIVE.

-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by OceanStone

Originally posted by Hefficide
Men already have reproductive rights.

They have the right to keep their pants zipped if they can't step up to the plate.


The same could be said about the woman.
She sure does have that right.

But if she finds herself pregnant, she also has the right to abortion.

And if she carries full term she also has the right to file for child support from the father.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 



It directly relates to the Original Post and the original topic, which is the premise upon which I am debating.

Was it supposed to relate to abortion?


You said that "Supporting your Spawn" was expected at the "Basest Level"


or something along the lines.


Why is abortion *NOT* seen as a "Dereliction of Parental Duties" like being a "Deadbeat Dad" is?


Honestly, Not giving your baby momma money, is WORSE than killing the Unborn?


What bizzaro land are we in NOW?

-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:40 AM
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reply to post by Edrick
 


Oh Edrick. Try harder.

I actually tacked on Pioneer to denote era, for reference.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:42 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 



I actually tacked on Pioneer to denote era, for reference.


So, then your entire post was meaningless....

Understood, now I know what I am dealing with.

Thank you.

-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:47 AM
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reply to post by Edrick
 


That would be America, or any of the following countries that are not green:





This is the world abortion map. Here is the key:


Green: Never legal, or legal only when necessary to save the life of the mother or protect her physical health

Yellow: Abortion legal in "hard cases", such as rape, incest, and/or deformed child.

Red : Abortion legal for social reasons (e.g. mother says she can't afford a child), or to protect the mother's "mental health" (definitions and requirements vary).

Purple: Abortion legal at any time during pregnancy for any reason



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by Edrick
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 



I actually tacked on Pioneer to denote era, for reference.


So, then your entire post was meaningless....

Understood, now I know what I am dealing with.

Thank you.

-Edrick
Exactly what are you dealing with Edrick?



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Nice picture....


Are you going to answer my Question, or just throw up more Distractions?


Exactly what are you dealing with Edrick?


You?

-Edrick


edit on 18-9-2010 by Edrick because: addition



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:53 AM
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reply to post by Edrick
 

It may be he is tired of "debating" with people who have a skewed view of responsibility.

As previously stated children are taught at a very young age in the country the ramifications of sex. They know it can lead to pregnancy and std's. If one chooses to lie down one takes the responsibility upon themselves for those ramifications.
If one creates a child one is responsible for said child until the child comes of age. No ifs, ands or buts about it.
I know that this country allows abortion but in my limited world view abortion is not a form of birth control. Abortion in my view is reserved for rapes or life threatening pregnancies. All other pregnancies in a fair and just world result in children. Those children were created by two people and both of those people are responsible in equal proportions to the care and well being of that child. For the law to step in and say otherwise is just wrong.

My opinion: women who use abortion as a means of birth control should be spayed. Men who want to avoid responsibility for children they've fathered should be neutered. With all of the methods of pregnancy prevention we have access to along with taking personal responsibility for your prevention methods this discussion should not even be an issue. Irresponsible acts followed by irresponsible acts.

I've told my stepson that it is his responsibility to protect himself no matter what the girl tells him. If she says she's on the pill, use a condom. Provide his own condom. Never let the condom out of his control. Make sure his condoms are fresh. I've also told him condoms break. Condoms can be defective. He knows the ramifications and if he fathers a child he knows his responsibility!



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Where is MY gold star? I raised two kids for five years alone. I guess only gold stars for parents who did right AND agree with you?



Sorry for not giving you one then,yet I`ll hand them out to people I know that are deserving first,if you can show me that your boys are not scared or damaged by your unfair view on the matters between male and female mothers and fathers discussion we are having,that your ex was treated fairly,because the attitude your showing toward men and fathers here I can understand he`s your ex.

So if this is what your teaching your boys you get a thumbs down.


Why are gold stars being handed out for fufilling responsibility and duty, anyway?

Children first off need a stable family thats a mother and father,many women are totally irresponseible as a parent for believeing the father is not important and raise them with out him even when he is the more worthy parent.


Supporting your spawn is not something that is over and above what is expected, it IS what is expected at the basest level.

Firstly you will have to define what your personal opinion is when you use the term support.There would be millions of unfit parents out there that would say they support their children.


And I think this also goes to the heart of some things.

Do men/women who raise their kids from "bad" mom/dadss somehow feel they deserve a gold star for doing so?



heck if I knew them personally I wouldn`t insult them with a gold star,I`d give them things they need if any.

Thing is you have alluded a few times that I`ve read that your a good parent without letting others make up their own minds if you are to begin with.Is that not the meaning of pretentious?



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