Violent Anti-Mosque crowd turns on Black Carpenter

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posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by brisk002
Jeez a leftist comparing me to the nazi's? Never heard that before...


It used to be Reds under the Beds. Now the 'liberal' see racists, bigots, xenophobes and Nazis everywhere.

Perhaps they don't recognise their own reflection in the mirror?




posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by fooks
 


I'd take you up on that

I've met many christians and only the pastors seem to know what their religion is about.


So I've met at least 300 christians and all they knew was "praise jesus" nothing else.

And I've me 20 muslims, all of whom even at a young age could recite their koran, and in general were much more intelligent people than those 300 christians.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by maybereal11

How is you treating all Muslims like the "enemy" any different?


Or opposing the building of the Mosque?

I am completely AMAZED at how many of those who so vehemently oppose this Mosque are aligning their ideals with the exact same people they chose to hate!!!

They even try to make silly arguments to point out how Muslims would do the same thing. Who cares if they would do the same thing?! Who cares if in their country they wouldn't allow such a thing? Aren't you trying to NOT be like them? Good grief!


Since it seems that trying to forcibly stop the building of this mosque is justified given that in some Middle Eastern country they would do the same, all women should start wearing burkas in America. Shoot, while were at it, why don't we just adopt all their laws since we use them to justify doing the same thing they would.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by maybereal11
Osam Bin Laden for one and all of AL-Qaeda to boot.
Just because Islam has it's extremists doesn't excuse you being an extemist...condemning all of Islam...


You just can't resist trying to demonise people can you?


Originally posted by maybereal11
Extremists do not distinguish between an American soldier and an American...child, mother, civilian, whatever.

How is you treating all Muslims like the "enemy" any different?


I meet Muslims every day. I most certainly don't treat all Muslims as the enemy.

Why do you liberals insist in seeing everything in black and white?

Can't your views grow a bit of depth and become a bit more sophisticated?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


So in your version of history is was "leftists" who caused the red scare?

Funny, in my world is was Joe McCarthy and the right.

Oh and for the record, what makes this all so poignant is that I am not a leftist. I am a moderate who voted for Reagan, and both Bush's twice each.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by Miraj
 


So I see that you are guilty of what everyone else on this thread is saying christians are guilty off, a little hypocrisy going around isnt there?

Sounds more like your bigoted towards Christians all the while calling christians the bigots, because your post is FULL of bull pucky



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
Oh and for the record, what makes this all so poignant is that I am not a leftist. I am a moderate who voted for Reagan, and both Bush's twice each.


For the record, people who take side swipes at people who have an opinion that reflects almost 70% of the Americans publics' opinion, by insinuating they are Nazis, are not moderate.

"A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs."

en.wikipedia.org...

If the cap fits...



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Hefficide
Oh and for the record, what makes this all so poignant is that I am not a leftist. I am a moderate who voted for Reagan, and both Bush's twice each.


For the record, people who take side swipes at people who have an opinion that reflects almost 70% of the Americans publics' opinion, by insinuating they are Nazis, are not moderate.

"A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs."

en.wikipedia.org...

If the cap fits...


For the record, I called nobody a Nazi. My statement was that this is what it must have felt like to live in Germany in the 1930's. Whatever conclusion you or other posters reached from that statement is merely a reflection upon your own internal issues or conflicts.

And as for the rest - you did actually read that definition yourself? Correct?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:25 PM
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I meet Muslims every day. I most certainly don't treat all Muslims as the enemy. Why do you liberals insist in seeing everything in black and white? Can't your views grow a bit of depth and become a bit more sophisticated?


You don't treat them rudely in person yet you go on ATS and play the Islam is evil card non stop! You sound like a hypocrite.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by nunya13
So instead of recognizing that the Constitution is serving it's VERY PURPOSE regarding this issue, you think it should just be changed a on a whim to reflect the current MOOD of the country?!



If the majority of the American people wished the constitution to be amended it would be unconstitutional to block an amendment.


I never said anything about blocking an amendment. I said that your assertion that because people oppose the mosque but support its right to be there does not suggest an amendment is needed. It suggests that people have their beliefs about something but don't' think their beliefs should infringe on other people's rights. One can fully oppose something or someone but still support their right to do it.



Originally posted by nunya13
Regardless, like Maybereal was saying, it doesn't matter what the majority want because, especially in this case, the Constitution was meant to protect the rights of minorities more than anything.


It doesn't matter what the majority want?

You certainly are no believer in democracy.




You certainly don't know what kind of a government we have and what the Constitution is meant to protect.

We are a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. The ONLY thing democratic about our country is our election process. Everything else is guided by the principles laid out in the Constitution. This means that, like I said, a majority of people can believe something but if the Constitution forbids it to be so, then it cannot. They can try to amend the Constitution but this is very hard because, like I said, most people respect people's rights over their own beliefs.

"The moment a mere numerical superiority by either states or voters in this country proceeds to ignore the needs and desires of the minority, and for their own selfish purpose or advancement, hamper or oppress that minority, or debar them in any way from equal privileges and equal rights - that moment will mark the failure of our constitutional system." --FDR

There are two pillars to our system of governement:

Majority rules
Minority rights


edit to fix quote tags






[edit on 23-8-2010 by nunya13]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:27 PM
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Question if the guy is not Muslim then why did he show up in a muslim style hat


Just stirring the pot I guess



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by hillbilly4rent
 


Most likely there are similar hats in the world?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino


Why do you liberals insist in seeing everything in black and white?

Can't your views grow a bit of depth and become a bit more sophisticated?


Don't you think that assuming people that don't agree with you are liberals is a little "black and white"?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:29 PM
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I know im coming off as a nut here........because I myself dont agree with the Mosque being built at the site either........

Would I go protest it? lol No, they have every right to build it, i just dont have to agree with it.....

This whole thing is getting very heated tho, and just like one would think, is becoming VERY political........pretty close to November.....

Anyone get the feeling that this could be another "black op" to force more of a divide to pull some power back to the areas where they were?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by MCAinSTL
I find it amazing that everyone is quick to call the anti-mosque protesters bigots. I guess you all have been reading Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" where he says to ridicule your opponents and accuse them of racism.

Maybe those people remember their friends jumping out of the twin towers to keep from burning. Let's not forget all the people in the muslim world who yell "death to America" and mean it. How about all the muslim leaders in groups like CAIR and the imam of this mosque who refuse to denounce terrorism.

If we Americans are such racists, why do we allow mosques to be built at all? We could be like the muslims in Saudi Arabia and Iran who kill people of other religions, gays, and other apostates.

Freedom of religion is not a suicide clause. What if the nazis or the kkk called themselves a religion? I guess you all would support them also. I would not.

I say they can build the mosque at the ground zero site when the Catholics can build a church in Mecca.


first off, im going to restate my position on people wanting to begin in the middle of this scenario.... by that i mean a lot of people start thinking about this issue with the Muslims already the 'bad guys' and our government being caught off guard. mistake number 1.

and secondly, why oh why do people continue to reference this place or that place in the middle east as an example of tolerance. ' i say let them build the mosque there when catholics can build a church in mecca." are you serious? you want to model your morality around the saudis? because that is exactly what you are saying.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by nunya13
So instead of recognizing that the Constitution is serving it's VERY PURPOSE regarding this issue, you think it should just be changed a on a whim to reflect the current MOOD of the country?!



If the majority of the American people wished the constitution to be amended it would be unconstitutional to block an amendment.


I never said anything about blocking an amendment. I said that your assertion that because people oppose the mosque but support its right to be there does not suggest an amendment is needed. It suggests that people have their beliefs about something but don't' think their beliefs should infringe on other people's rights. One can fully oppose something or someone but still support their right to do it.



Originally posted by nunya13
Regardless, like Maybereal was saying, it doesn't matter what the majority want because, especially in this case, the Constitution was meant to protect the rights of minorities more than anything.



It doesn't matter what the majority want?

You certainly are no believer in democracy.




You certainly don't know what kind of a government we have and what the Constitution is meant to protect.

We are a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. The ONLY thing democratic about our country is our election process. Everything else is guided by the principles laid out in the Constitution. This means that, like I said, a majority of people can believe something but if the Constitution forbids it to be so, then it cannot. They can try to amend the Constitution but this is very hard because, like I said, most people respect people's rights over their own beliefs.

"The moment a mere numerical superiority by either states or voters in this country proceeds to ignore the needs and desires of the minority, and for their own selfish purpose or advancement, hamper or oppress that minority, or debar them in any way from equal privileges and equal rights - that moment will mark the failure of our constitutional system." --FDR

There are two pillars to our system of governement:

Majority rules
Minority rights


edit to fix quote tags
edit #2: quote tags again






[edit on 23-8-2010 by nunya13]

[edit on 23-8-2010 by nunya13]

[edit on 23-8-2010 by nunya13]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
For the record, I called nobody a Nazi. My statement was that this is what it must have felt like to live in Germany in the 1930's. Whatever conclusion you or other posters reached from that statement is merely a reflection upon your own internal issues or conflicts.


Thanks. That did make me laugh out loud.


Originally posted by Hefficide
And as for the rest - you did actually read that definition yourself? Correct?


On the contrary, I can respect people supporting the mosque. I just don't agree with them.

In contrast, its the minority in the USA who support the mosque who try to demonise anyone who disagrees with them.

Your did it yourself with your

"I have a feeling that Germany, in the 1930's probably felt a lot like this country does today" comment.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


lol... wow, all that txt in that post and not much actual substance.


you make A LOT of assumptions don't you. instead of putting words in my mouth and then making counter points to the stuff you made up, why don't you answer some of the questions i pose but you are ignoring.

i never said anything about the constitution. this isn't about the law. yes its legal to build a mosque. is it the right thing to do? NO

this isn't about building a mosque. don't you get it. no one has a problem with a mosque being built at all.

just answer me one question. why MUST they build this mosque as close to ground zero as possible and create such controversy?

they could build the mosque anywhere. why do you think they chose this spot and refuse to consider other locations?

if this effort is truly about bridging the gaps between cultures then
why chose this location when they know this would cause negative emotions among those that were killed in the 9/11 attacks.

and why must they open this on 9/11/11?

can you honestly tell me this isn't an intentional provocation?

just answer these questions and stop avoiding these and beating around the bush. why at ground zero? why open on 9/11?

I also notice you conveniently don't address what you did to stormdancer. if you want i'll pull quotes from that thread where she brings up cogent points and you bash her for it claiming they are 'off topic' just because you don't like what she had to say.

that says a lot about you my friend. i hope one day you realize its better to face reality than to live in a self deluded world. because one day that world will come crashing down on you in a most unpleasant way




[edit on 23-8-2010 by insideNSA]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


hefficides comment about 1930's Germany had nothing to do with accusing you of being a Nazi and everything to do with the German gov't and propaganda turning them against the Jews. The only thing hefficide is guilty of is accusing you of buying gov't bs and media propaganda that only serves an agenda.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


I honestly don't know if you're aware of the paradoxical nature of your positions, but pointing out bigotry is not being a bigot.

Arguing for the freedom other others is not fascism.

This twisting of words may make for a seemingly honorable stand, but in substance it accomplishes nothing.

If 100% of the population were to feel that any person should be deprived of their rights, for any reason, it would NOT make it right.





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