A good point concerning the Mosque

I came across this. He brings up a good point.





So it is fine to build churches in a country where we willingly killed 100,000 innocent civilians, but they can't build an Islamic Rec Center with a prayer room (something that WTC Tower 2 had as well).

Simply hypocrisy.

lol the hypocricy of this whole DEAL is huge, seriously.


All you need to do is take a look at how the native americans were treated... after their population was decimated, churches were built, and the People were forced into them, to "teach them how to be civilized."


Karma's a killer, ain't it?


People go on about how the ground zero area is hallowed or sacred ground, screaming ad hollering about the mosque being placed there... and yet the exact same things were done, in a much more horrific way, on the very ground all americans live on. Don't hear them talking about that, right?


Sorry if this post does not come through as fully as I would like it to be... in a big hurry and kiddos hollering in the ears does not make for the best of concentration haha

The problem here is that this mans logic is very subjective. Premise is weak.

However his logic does lead me to believe that the Mosque of Omar is a monument to slaughter....and should be removed.

Originally posted by Jomina
lol the hypocricy of this whole DEAL is huge, seriously.


All you need to do is take a look at how the native americans were treated... after their population was decimated, churches were built, and the People were forced into them, to "teach them how to be civilized."


Karma's a killer, ain't it?

You are telling me here that you understand 911 and the proposed mosque to be an act of justice and comeuppances.

The only problem I ever had was that the Greek Othodox Church wasn't allow to rebuild their church after it was distroyed on 9/11. I'm done with all of it. It's all a disraction. I don't live in NYC and I'm not Muslim so I'm done with it all. TPTB are in business to divide us. I say enough.

Muslims have long practiced building on top of the holy sites of their enemies.

In 1453 Constantinople fell to the Ottoman Turks. The Holy Wisdom was seized and turned into a mosque, and the Sultan Mehmed II ordered the Greek Patriarch Gennadius Scholarius to move to the Holy Apostles, which thus became the centre of the Greek Orthodox Church. But the area around the church was soon settled by Turks, and there was increasing hostility to such a large and centrally located building remaining in Christian hands. Gennadius therefore decided to move the Patriarchate to the Church of St Mary Pammakaristos in the main Christian part of the city, the Phanar district.
Rather than convert the Holy Apostles itself into a mosque, Mehmed decided to demolish it and build a mosque of comparable magnificence on the site. The result was the Fatih Cami (Mosque of the Conqueror), which still occupies the site and houses Mehmed's tomb.

Mosque of the Conqueror


A Greek Orthodox Church was destroyed durring 911 and it doesnt look like the city will let them rebuild.

Though talks between the church and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey stalled last year, church leaders say they've been trying to kick-start discussions ever since. But amid debate over whether a proposed Islamic community center should go forward near Ground Zero, government officials threw cold water on the prospect of any deal with the church -- telling Fox News the deal is off the table.

Greek Orthodox Church Will Not be Rebuilt

reply to post by Logarock


He is trying to understand the principle behind the outrage to the building the Islamic center.

The principle is that a religious group is not to build a religious place of worship close to the location of a crime perpetrated by others of the same general faith.

This seems to be the main objection.

He argues that under the same principle, building churches in Iraq is just as bad or worse and those in favor of building these churches in Iraq but against the building of the Islamic Equivalent of a YMCA near the general location of 9/11 is hypocritical.

However his logic does lead me to believe that the Mosque of Omar is a monument to slaughter....and should be removed.

So are you agreeing with the principle as he explained? It isn't his principle but the principle of those that oppose the building of the 'Mosque'.

What do you feel about religious groups in the US funding the building of churches in a country they were in favor of bombing?

Originally posted by DINSTAAR
reply to post by Logarock

 

He is trying to understand the principle behind the outrage to the building the Islamic center.

The principle is that a religious group is not to build a religious place of worship close to the location of a crime perpetrated by others of the same general faith.

This seems to be the main objection.

Yes I fully understood. Its just that it doesnt work that way in Islam. The folks pushing the build see this as a duty of a high order.

And show us where christain centers are being built in Iraq and close to sensitive sites made so durring our latest action there.

My greatest fear is that I will have to indure another round of listening to the dead cry out from the grave for justice.....as I did my fellows that died in Beirut.

This is the point that I have been making in thread after thread spewing hate and discrimination against Muslims. To blame everyone for the actions of a few is foolish and if we are to use such logic, maybe we should look at ourselves and see what hate we can drum up about our own circles or groups.

--airspoon

reply to post by DINSTAAR


Im in total agreement. The whole situation is stupid.

If you look at the fact, and turn off the news, youll see no muslims were even involved with 9/11.

reply to post by 8fl0z


It doesn't matter whether muslims were involved or not.

It's whether or not you blame Islam in part for the 9/11 attacks.

If you do, you should be disregarded outright for being idiotic, but that's just me.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
reply to post by 8fl0z

 

It doesn't matter whether muslims were involved or not.

It's whether or not you blame Islam in part for the 9/11 attacks.

If you do, you should be disregarded outright for being idiotic, but that's just me.

Thats what im saying...

Originally posted by 8fl0z

Originally posted by SpectreDC
reply to post by 8fl0z

 

It doesn't matter whether muslims were involved or not.

It's whether or not you blame Islam in part for the 9/11 attacks.

If you do, you should be disregarded outright for being idiotic, but that's just me.

Thats what im saying...

No, you said that muslims didn't commit the 9/11 attacks.

That may or may not be true, but it is irrelevant.

If Muslims did it, it doesn't matter because they were bat# crazy Muslim's who don't represent 1.5 billion people.

If Muslims didn't do it well...yeah.

The point that matters is whether you believe Islam is in part responsible as a whole for what happened.

Ok we should narrow it down to those wanting to make war. Which is what most on here do whatever side of the issue. Some like to fight the argument with the steady mantra about how a few nuts dont make the whole....but who dosent know that here anyway?

Some like to say that not giving this thing a green light may set off a new round of problems. Talk about living in fear. What will it be next? Soon all they will have to do is shake a leg and the world will roll over for them.

So of you need to feel so good about yourself.....the cosmopolitan man....everybody just get in line for peace....no other ideas, no warrnings, no heed given.....squawk!....no other opinions.

Originally posted by airspoon
This is the point that I have been making in thread after thread spewing hate and discrimination against Muslims. To blame everyone for the actions of a few is foolish and if we are to use such logic, maybe we should look at ourselves and see what hate we can drum up about our own circles or groups.

--airspoon

Yes Spoon anyone reading these threads are certainly aware of your position. But what are you dissapointed that everyone hasnt gotten in line yet?

Really you insult folks with your ideas about anyone that has an issue with certain groups is painting the whole and thus the whole opposition thing is faulty.

And now look...the guy wanting to build this thing is now schooling america about how much bigger a bunch of killers we are than they. You dont have the sight to see where this is comming from of where its going? I consider his comments an admission of guilt. That now that they are exposed the rhetorical façade, mask if you will has been taken off.....and these have the gas to offer us a way to make an atonement for our sin......as if 911 was our fault anyway.

If the said Muslims were guilty they would have been proven as such in a court of law...they were not.

It has been clearly shown that the controversy of the mosque is pure divide and conquer...just like the sources of soooo many conflicts have been shown to be.

As long as people take a myopic view of such things and don't look at the big picture and add up all the evidence, it will all be just as credible as wrestling...6 out of 10 teen agers can't even find Iraq on a map, 40 % of Americans believe Iraq helped its mortal enemy Al Ciada do 911, when it is known for certain Iraq did not, and the average scientific education of an American is equal to that of a 12 year old...
well it shows.

Blame the guy with the oil, the opium, the pipe line, the resources, the land, and the old out dated weapons we sold him. Blame the guy who doesn't have WMDs.
Get im!

PS
my Fundie pal said in the end times Christians would be hunted ike dogs..so I pointed out that just like when you "fish a worm" the phrase "hunt a dog" does not mean you are hunting for a dog it means you are hunting with a dog.
Packs and mobs are about the same thing..
And to get a mob going just whip them up with a little old time religion.




[edit on 25-8-2010 by Danbones]

[edit on 25-8-2010 by Danbones]

Originally posted by Danbones
If the said Muslims were guilty they would have been proven as such in a court of law...they were not.

It has been clearly shown that the controversy of the mosque is pure divide and conquer...just like the sources of soooo many conflicts have been shown to be.

Or....conquer them by pounding into their brains that there is no diffrences in anything, peace at all cost, that only some have the full spectrum of sight required to make things good for all. If you disagree.....you are part of the division. What sort of mind control is this?

The fact is that there are naturaly accuring divisions that need no help from behind the curtain dividers. With christanity and islam their are large wide divides that accure naturaly between them and with others in thier own ranks. But it is that near 50% that cant find a palce on a map, nor discern real diffrences, that believe the salesman that sell the divide and conquer as an ansewer to the real reason behind the divisions. In short selling that there are no real divisions just dividers bent on conqest.


"Whoever conquers a free town and does not demolish it commits a great error and may expect to be ruined himself".
Niccolo Machiavelli

I think a better comparison the guy maybe could have made was the building of churches in Jerusalem after the sack of that city at the conclusion of the First Crusade.

The sack of Jerusalem was one of the bloodiest episodes in the history of Medieval warfare, which is saying quite a lot considering the brutality of the period. Among the atrocities perpetrated by the Crusaders reported from that event was the burning down of a Synagogue over the heads of more than 2000 cowering Jews inside (it was actually a Muslim chronicler, Usâmah ibn-Munqidh,) who described this particular event - he was alive at the time it happened but not present, himself. Also, in one district the blood supposedly ran ankle deep from all of the killings. The Christians basically wiped out almost the entire city after taking it.

Should we take down all the churches in Jerusalem built subsequent to the 1st Crusade?

No church of any kind should be put at ground zero, it is a slap in the faces
of Americans to suggest putting a Mosque there. This is a very controversial subject and nothing good will ever come from this being allowed to happen. That day September 11, 2001 was extremely upsetting and tramatic to the entire country. A building commemorating the people's lives and history of the country USA should be built instead.
Putting a mosque there would be like putting a sushi restraunt where Pearl Harbor's memorial is. It is simply inappropriate. God Bless Everyone.