What a Dreadful Mess! Man made Crop Circles......

Originally posted by DCDAVECLARKE
reply to post by DoomsdayRex

 

Are you joking? "all" man made crop circles are as bad as this!

You have so much knowledge and an almost omnipresence. It must be great to know what you know is the truth

Are you American? Please say you belong to another country.

How do you make it to every crop circle creation to gather this insight?

Tell the rest of us ignorant commoners how you do it sur.

Im sure youv'e heard it before but people being good at making crop circles does not explain the heated and extended nodes of the crops, nor the tiny black pelets found at many.Debunkers never mention this when debunking or they could just be ignorant.Probably both...

I don't know who or what creates crop circles!!

What puzzles me is the intricacy and the precision of these circles. For example, the circles aren't wobbly, from the photos I see they are perfect circles and the designs, often very beautiful, are often very complex.
I don't understand how ordinary 'pranksters' albeit very skilled ones could achieve that kind of precise geometry without significant equipment, and at that overnight in just a few hours without being seen.

So - to me they remain a puzzle and a mystery.

It could be there are incredibly skilled people who do achieve this level of geometric perfection.

It could be they are a government hoax, I've read that hypothesis too.

It could be they are made by fairies.

It could be they are made by goblins and elves.

It could be they are made by witches.

It could be they are made by ET's.

I dunno! But they are often incredibly beautiful so I'm just gonna enjoy them, and wait for the truth to unfold, eventually.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Wow, that's amazing. Thanks for posting that info, I wouldn't have believed that was possible. Amazing.

(assuming the Daily Mail is telling the truth, that is - lol!)

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by Slippery Jim
Of course, they could be just making it all up.

Except National Geographic filmed them creating this formation in 2004...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ae13d0400d46.jpg[/atsimg]

It took three men five hours, with breaks to allow for filming, to create the formation.

This formation for the Daily Mail took just 2.5 hours...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/57ce4188766c.jpg[/atsimg]

Hmmm...I checked your story but it doesn't seem to hold water.

Do you have links to verify these? According to Natgo, there was no mention that this was made in 2.5 hours. What is your source for that info.

Also, I found this to be interesting:

"Further evidence uncovered by researcher Lucy Pringle adds to the scam. The originator of the article, reporter Sam Taylor, appears not to exist. "

It appears the Dailymail article is a hoax.

Source

Also, for those that bring up Doug and Dave - they're story was a hoax as they later admited to NOT making the CC's that they had said they had.

"But when later confronted to provide evidence of their alleged creations, Doug and Dave changed their story, even reversing previous claims; they could not even explain the unusual features found in the genuine phenomenon."

Source


For those that wish to rehash the same man-made/ET argument check out this thread first.

It has lots of evidence and debate for you.

Crop Circles... with some actual evidence

I believe some crop circles are way too perfect and appear way too quickly for any group of people to create such things in the dead of night...it'd be any easy way to prove us all wrong actually...people could recreate some of the most complex ones but instead of being all sneaky about it, let us see you do it...case closed...or is that too much to ask...

EDIT: And even if accomplished, that still doesn't account for the oddities that occur at some CC's

[edit on 19/8/10 by CHA0S]

reply to post by jaysinn

C'mon, they can travel from who knows how far away, yet lack the ability to drop some sort of hologram device or something?

Or just write a note and slip it under the doormat.

I thought everybody knew crop circles were man-made by now.

Originally posted by buddhistpunk
Im sure youv'e heard it before but people being good at making crop circles does not explain the heated and extended nodes of the crops, nor the tiny black pelets found at many.Debunkers never mention this when debunking or they could just be ignorant.Probably both...

Did you even look at Slippery Jim's link?

It's all explained there.

He's posted it three times in the thread already. None of you wannabelievers has had the guts to look at it, have you?

Originally posted by micpsi
reply to post by DoomsdayRex

 

The criterion for judging what is man-made and non-man-made is NOT the quality and appearance of the crop circle. That is rather a subjective criterion that can be endlessly debated. A good crop circle researcher NEVER decides on the basis of appearance. Rather, he or she examines the stalks of the downed crops and compares them scientifically with samples randomly drawn from outside the crop circle. Swollen nodes is one of the signatures that Doug and Dave have not been at work, provided the crop is ascertained not to be young. Also expulsion cavities in the nodes and signs of significantly higher degrees of crystallization in the clay of the soil inside the crop circle, which would require crop-destroying, high temperatures and pressures to achieve.

Some of you need to advance beyond the elementary level of debate that maintains you in rigid postures of belief or disbelief. Better still, get out of your cozy armchairs and DO SOME FIELD RESEARCH.

I love how your intelligent, well thought-out reply has been ignored.

The truth of the matter is... when you look at crop circles from a scientific standpoint and not one of design, it's all other ball game.

Man-made crop circles don't leave behind traces of radiation... with bends at the stalk caused from an intense heat.

There has been real science that has gone into the investigation of crop circles, of which completely negate any type of "bill and earl" from creating these over night.

reply to post by Cigar

Cripes. Another one.

VISIT SLIPPERY JIM'S LINK

Your precious 'radiation' and all the rest of it are clearly explained there.

[edit on 20/8/10 by Astyanax]

Oh I've been there... that's one of the ugliest websites I've ever visited. Please link me to the part that explains the radiation left behind. Because I sure as hell am not reading through that eye sore.

reply to post by Cigar



There you were enthusiastically endorsing getting out of the armchair and doing field research, yet it seems even researching a web site from your armchair is beyond you! You want someone else to spoonfeed you links!

If the truth about crop circles was really important to you, then the mere mention that an explanation has been presented for those phenomena should have been sufficient motivation to track down the pertinent information, however hard it was to find. If you can't do that, your talk is just empty words.

Clearly you couldn't care less about truth, you just want confirmation of your chosen beliefs.

[edit on 20/8/10 by Astyanax]

What?? You aren't making any sense. Enough of the arm chair references already... this thread's seen enough.

It appears hostility has taken over this thread. [snip]
You mentioned this link would provide evidence for my supposed "precious radiation" since you clearly know where it is, yet don't have the decency or shall I say, the courage to directly link me. I'm not going to waste my time straining my eyes on a poorly developed website scouring for information in a duck hunt for something that's hearsay at this point. So unless you want to actually back up your claims instead of taking the chicken $hit route, I won't waste my time.



Removed personal attack

[edit on 20/8/10 by masqua]

Originally posted by Astyanax

Originally posted by buddhistpunk
Im sure youv'e heard it before but people being good at making crop circles does not explain the heated and extended nodes of the crops, nor the tiny black pelets found at many.Debunkers never mention this when debunking or they could just be ignorant.Probably both...

Did you even look at Slippery Jim's link?

It's all explained there.

He's posted it three times in the thread already. None of you wannabelievers has had the guts to look at it, have you?

Yawn .Yes I checked the link.It doesn't explain what I was saying.
You seem to be a very stupid person.Good luck with life.My guess is you will fail.

Originally posted by Cigar

Originally posted by micpsi
reply to post by DoomsdayRex

 

The criterion for judging what is man-made and non-man-made is NOT the quality and appearance of the crop circle. That is rather a subjective criterion that can be endlessly debated. A good crop circle researcher NEVER decides on the basis of appearance. Rather, he or she examines the stalks of the downed crops and compares them scientifically with samples randomly drawn from outside the crop circle. Swollen nodes is one of the signatures that Doug and Dave have not been at work, provided the crop is ascertained not to be young. Also expulsion cavities in the nodes and signs of significantly higher degrees of crystallization in the clay of the soil inside the crop circle, which would require crop-destroying, high temperatures and pressures to achieve.

Some of you need to advance beyond the elementary level of debate that maintains you in rigid postures of belief or disbelief. Better still, get out of your cozy armchairs and DO SOME FIELD RESEARCH.

I love how your intelligent, well thought-out reply has been ignored.

The truth of the matter is... when you look at crop circles from a scientific standpoint and not one of design, it's all other ball game.

Man-made crop circles don't leave behind traces of radiation... with bends at the stalk caused from an intense heat.

There has been real science that has gone into the investigation of crop circles, of which completely negate any type of "bill and earl" from creating these over night.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I barely know anything about crop circles (nor 'believe' either side..) but it's pretty obvious that judging the 'authenticity' of CC by how they look is idiotic at best.

Hear is the biblical proof that it IS extraterrestrials that are publishing most of these messages. Read Jeremiah 4: 16 and 17 to learn who acts as keepers of the fields. Oh yeah, this is gonna be big!

reply to post by Astyanax


Iv looked at SLIPPERY JIM'S LINK! an it makes me smell a rat, it looks like they have mixed some Man made ones with the real deal, you can see even with the Thumb nail Pic's how the Circles differ! an besides you can't do much about it because the Circles are gone in a couple of days therefore no come back. they also say alot this appeared an that appeared about the more Artistic Circles, me thinks covering there Backs!

reply to post by Cigar

The truth of the matter is... when you look at crop circles from a scientific standpoint and not one of design, it's all other ball game.

Please do share this scientific standpoint.

Please tell me you are not going to refer us to BLT. Please.

Man-made crop circles don't leave behind traces of radiation... with bends at the stalk caused from an intense heat.

I have been researching Crop Circles for years. There are no scientific works published that clearly show any signs of radiation that can be used to differentiate crop circles as being man made or not.

If you do have published scientific studies supporting a claim that certain crop circles have a radioactive characteristic to them, that would be great. As I said previously, I have a great interest in his topic, so I am rather excited to hear that you have information from a scientific stand point that makes the crop circle debate a "whole other ball game".

There has been real science that has gone into the investigation of crop circles, of which completely negate any type of "bill and earl" from creating these over night.

I hope you are really familiar with this topic.
Because I am.
There are only 3 published papers on Crop Circles. They have been heavily discussed here on ATS.
These studies, by admission from the study authors Burke, Levengoode and Talbot, as well as scientific peers like Hasselhoff, who are interested in the topic do not consider these studies to be any indication at all of the origins of crop circles.

On the topic of Radioactive elements in the crop circles, in 1991 two scientist withdrew their paper after admitting to serious flaws in the work.
No other such work has been offered.

Yet the myth still persists. Because people like you repeat it.


Here is the study as you will find it in crop circle sites. The use it as scientific evidence and proof.
execonn.com...

But you won't find the real story on Crop Circle sites, because they are not interested in real science.
I present you with the alterations from the two authors (not someone else tearing it apart), Dudley and Chorost, in MUFON UFO Journal, where they admit to many failings in their work and that it changes the claims they made regarding the causes and sources of the "radiation" they found.

In the winter of 1991 we circulated a paper in manuscript claiming to have discovered 13 unusual radioactive isotopes in soil samples from an English crop circle......We are satisfied with our logic, but, unfortunately, the basic data turned out to be less solid than we believed. For that reason we pulled the paper from publication, and we are withdrawing some of the claims made in it.

www.scribd.com...

If you read it, you will note that they even found that some of their controls(these are the samples used to compare with the crop circle samples so as to show that the crop circles are in fact anomalous) were actually higher then the crop circle readings.

Near the end, it was only a call from others to review the raw data that cause the two authors to withdraw the paper because the error were obvious.
These guys deserve respect.
They did proper research, put it out to their peers, found the errors and conceded they were wrong.
This is exactly the kind of people we need doing this kind of work. Looking for real anomalies and not inventing them.
This is how real science works.

The reason why some people think crop circles are all man made is based upon the factual evidence that Humans exists, and they are known to make crop circles and have been documented doing so. We know there are groups dedicated to CC making.

Can you do the same for any other non-human cause, alien or otherwise?
Do you think aliens are making crop circles because you know they exist, you know they make circles and that aliens have been documented making circles? And that there are documented groups of aliens dedicated to making crop circles?

You cannot.

So the only argument you really have is that you doubt the explanation that all crop circles are man made.
That is all you have. Doubt

So can you see why people can hypothesis that all crop circles are man made.
This is logical.
It is based on evidence.
Sure, the assumption is made by the hypothesis, but that is the only assumption. All the variables in the hypothesis that "Crop circles are all man made" are factual, known and exist.

Now.
If you claim that we cannot account for the cause every CC, you would be correct. But that is only an appeal to the impossibility of the challenge.
You need to make this challenge because you cannot show just one crop circle being made by aliens. In the 30 year history of crop circles. Not ever.

I constantly see people like you and many others telling us what is impossible to explain. That is your explanation. "Oh we just can't account for them, its impossible".
This phenomena is explainable, but who wants to buy a DVD, or a watch a CC movie(cue celtic music and sound bites from Charles Mallet, Colin Andrews, Gary King et al) when you know its just humans. Who wants the calender or who is going to enjoy a UFO conference lecture, if we just know its humans.

I have seen this, or something like it, a number of times in this thread and on many other threads:

Why? Just tell me why? Why would artists (and I would think; sane and semi-intelligent people) run the risk of arrest for trespassing on other people's land to express their art? Some farmers carry shot guns. Is this that important to them?

That to me is too hard to swallow. It makes no sense.

post by Human_Alien

This is why people do it.
Business. Money.

The following is taken from a thread written in december last year, 2009. Detailing all the business associated with the 2010 crop circle season.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just so you a clear, in 2009, a years worth of CC conferences, tours, and merchandise had already planned for 2010.

Conference2010

Trade Fair offering:
Crop Circle Books and Films
Crop Circle Photographs & Pictures
Jewellry
Clothing
Health Products
Music CD's
Alternative Therapies

Crop Circles have a Crop Circles TRADE FAIR!
Crop Circle Health products, please!

Just some of the Business for this year as if the Crop Circles are guaranteed!
www.sacredbritain.com...
www.cropcircleconnector.com...
www.glastonburysymposium.co.uk...
www.cropcircleconnector.com...
www.wccsg.com...
www.cropcircletours.com...
www.summerlectures.co.uk...
Now, do you think they really, really, really need circles to appear. Because I do.
Do you think that people will be motivated to make these circles?
Because I do.
Do you think we can account for them all? Sure, but to do so would probably hurt someone bank accounting$.

reply to post by Cigar


ooops, nevermind. Atlasastro beat me to it.

(bowing to Atlasastro)

[edit on 20-8-2010 by spinalremain]

reply to post by atlasastro


I dont trust Conventional Science when it comes to out of the Box issues, they wont go near anything that goes beyond there scope! with the wreath of the scientific community coming down hard on any scientist who even ventures down any controversial track, with the warning of dismissal an ridicule, end of story!