Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
SOMEONE has to pay for medicaid. Someone has to pay these pharmeceutical companies for thier ridiculously priced drugs.

the state pays for medicaid and medicare from federal money, and drug companies too, hardly any from taxes.

ps: neither one pays for much and will force you to either use generic drugs or not pay for all of them if you use brand name drugs.

btw this initiave has been implimented since 2002, have you all been screened for mental illness's in all this time?

[edit on 20-6-2004 by namehere]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Its pretty obvious what this is. I have had to deal with depression before, debilitating depression, and the more drugs that were pushed on me, the worse it got. ...

Its also a well known fact that many docotors overprescribe mental health meds, instead of looking at physical causes, like thyroid disorders. Womens complaints are often treated like mental illness, sicne docotors dont take them seriously. The key word in this whole thing is CONSUMER.

Umm... come on now - read the report. THESE ARE EXACTLY THE TYPES OF PROBLEMS THE REPORT IS TRYING TO ADDRESS. Your complaints are valid. They stem however from the current lack of access and information to proper healthcare options, sometimes even incompetence, but not a conspiracy of the government.

If anything the conspiracy here is are the power of the Insurance Providers who control who gets what care. Primary Care physicians should never be diagnosing and prescribing mental health drugs, but often their hands are tied, though admittedly sometimes by their own greed and hesitation to refer to a proper healthcare provider.

Personally, on this one I don't care who pays for it. Having better mental healthcare diagnosis and treatment options would save A LOT! More productive people contributing to society, less crime, etc.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Its pretty obvious what this is. I have had to deal with depression before, debilitating depression, and the more drugs that were pushed on me, the worse it got. ...

the report says drugs dont always work and tries to address the situation with other means of care that dont include drugs.

Ahem....other forms of care.

Generic drugs are just like the brandname, theres no difference, thats why medicaid pushes them. However, many of the drugs pushed have no generic counterpart, either being too new, or problems getting the company to give up the liscence for the forumlation.

Other forms of care, eh? Its pretty obvious there. Lock em up! For people who are mentally ill, treating them without meds, pretty much sums up to locking them up. Unless you mean the other forms of "therapy".

The report does not have to say its all about the drug companies, its all about the money.

And beware of "advocates". Youll find the strangest assortment of people there.

Doctors, motivated by profit, will just LOOOOOOOOOVE all this new push towards treating the "mentally ill"

What exactly constitutes "mentally Ill" anyway? By whose standards are you mentally ill?

And name here, where the hell do you think "federal money" comes from? TAXES..............DUHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[edit on 20-6-2004 by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Ahem....other forms of care.

Generic drugs are just like the brandname, theres no difference, thats why medicaid pushes them.

lol, no, generic is cheaper, they dont have enogh money and they try to save as much as they can by generic drugs, cut services, etc, medicaid pays for drugs they dont charge people on medicaid, you dont seem to understand the situation or how medicaid operates, you seem too disgruntled to see what the report actually says.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_ElfThe report does not have to say its all about the drug companies, its all about the money.

Doctors, motivated by profit, will just LOOOOOOOOOVE all this new push towards treating the "mentally ill"

What exactly constitutes "mentally Ill" anyway? By whose standards are you mentally ill?

And name here, where the hell do you think "federal money" comes from? TAXES..............DUHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[edit on 20-6-2004 by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

no, the article on bmj is all about that, the government report says nothing of the sort.

no,the doctors wanted better help and pointed out problems in the system, i read their actual words.

research it, im sure the definition of what constitutes mental illness is out there.

so? taxes are needed if you expect to get free care and assistance thats needed for disabled.

[edit on 20-6-2004 by namehere]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Generic drugs are just like the brandname, theres no difference, thats why medicaid pushes them. However, many of the drugs pushed have no generic counterpart, either being too new, or problems getting the company to give up the liscence for the forumlation.

Actually, this is NOT ALWAYS true.
Generic drugs are the same basic drug. But, the brand name drug can also contain extra ingredients that could make the drug work better.
I know of two drugs where the brand name is superior to the generic: Dilantin and an eye drop for glaucoma. I've used several, so I'm not sure.
With the dilantin, taking the generic cause still allow seizures to happen in certain individuals. With the eye drops, the generic must be applied twice a day, the brand name only once. The brand name contains an extra ingredient that makes the drug potent all day.

Don't be misled by generics. Sometimes they are not the identical product. Sometimes it makes a difference.

Perhaps it would be a better idea to ask why our society is producing so many people with mentil illness instead of pumpiing them up with meds. it seems we always want a quick Fix these days .. Pun intended.

How lucky for you if you don't understand what I am talking about

Actually, I do and I wish I didn't. But my experience has shown me that pretty much all of this can be overcome by faith. Not faith in a Supreme Being necessarily, but faith in oneself to overcome adversity. I know, I'm probably being too hard on some people, but my problem is that this legislation seems as though they are trying to take the pyschiatrists out of the picture.

Pyschiatrists will no longer be needed for diagnosis, it will be left up to family doctors and computerized testing. Now how accurate can this be. Not to mention I haven't seen any information regarding pyschiatric treatment.

The whole point in my eyes is not to have people pumped up with frugs from birth to death, but to use the drugs helpe solve the problem. It seems with this legislation that they want to use the drugs as the answer. It's like cutting a plant and leaving the roots, you know??

I like what the last post said about addressing this societal epidemic... This thing is a lot more widespread than it used to be, and I think the reason is the ever-growing dependence on drugs.

I'm not too worked up about this, as it sounds like another Grand Scheme that gets applauded one day, underfunded the next and budget-cut to oblivion shortly thereafter.

However, it does occur to me that with all the databases being snooped by the government, it would be quite easy for someone whom the government views as a "subversive" to be diagnosed as mentally ill and then medicated into docility. Just a thought.

I have just four words for u... "Bush is a TWAT"... end of discussion... not not really post away u guys!

This would be the most brilliant move of any leader under certain conditions!

Yup first in line, and out the door unless they take their prescriptions and implants, controlled of course by the global oligarchy and cartel. Of course they already have control of Bush as a puppet, but now they get total articulation. Now the daily outrages can go to hourly outrages.

[edit on 2004-7-5 by Teknik]

....of the political threads, so I missed this one & only found out about it after having my thread closed.

More so than anything else, I see it as the willfull figure head enabling the money flow that keeps him in power, hence, my view on it as a political scandal.

Fascist to the core.

maybe some of the interpretations of this issue indicate a need for a mental health assessment....note that state and county mental health systems in the US are overwhelmed now, and can't service the people who already need servcies....adding more (like "everybody"...) for assessment and possible services, besides being the funniest thing I have heard in a long time, would cost billions of dollars and take years.....then you have the mental health laws in each state which aree somewhat different....all would have to be changed to be "on the same page" so to speak....that would take the bureaucrats forever and then some....and perhaps we overlooked the mental health code's basic premise: services are voluntary. you cannot mandate compliance without a hearing before a judge. TRUST ME: this contention of "mandatory mental health for everyone" is a total misinterpretation of the facts. In mental health, such symptomology is called "expansiveness" .....(still laughing..... :lol

by the way, it's gonna rain tonight...is THAT part of GWB's nefarious plot too?

Everyone should be screened for health problems. It be great if the government gave everyone to be screened so they could be forewarned of possible problems and to give everyone a chance to catch a serious disorder and cancer before it gets out of control.

I also feel that responsible people should have the control to write their own prescriptions given they know what the medicine they are getting is.

Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by muppet
Screening and mandatory treatment are dangerous solutions though.
...X...
Yes, most of the report seems to mean well, but the danger is in the details.

...there is no danger of abuse here that i can see.

Many Americans, like their leaders, have noble intentions and lofty ideals.
It seems somehow perverse to suggest that these could be abused...

Originally posted by chakra blue
it can be accomplished the same way they accomplish everything. start with a generation at birth.
free federal screening for "defective genes" if you will.
perhaps encourage abortion, leading to further reduction in poulation.
yep, in forty years, DONE

Absolutely effective if Government legislated.
For good examples of federally mandated mental health care,
� look no further than Germany.
The results of government organized eugenics for mental health problems
� led to a dramatic improvement in the behaviour of German society in general.

After all, what use is government power if not to impose uniformed discipline?
Those who dissent this wisdom can be viewed as needing mental health review...

As the enlightened Skadi_the_Evil_Elf reveals:

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
The key here, folks, the keyword, is CONSUMER.

Let us remember, this is a NEO Con Bush, a friend to the allmighty drug companies. What I think this will develop into? Govornment as ultimate drug pusher.

Look how many times the word "consumer" is mentioned. Not people, not patients, CONSUMER. ...

...Im ok, its everyone else on this #hole planets thats out of thier #ing minds.

'Red Flag' material if there ever was such a thing:
The word 'CONSUMER' exposes a corporate mentality oozing into cocktails of legislation.
They didn't even bother wiping away their slime-trail.

Originally posted by Relentless

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Its pretty obvious what this is. I have had to deal with depression before, debilitating depression, and the more drugs that were pushed on me, the worse it got. ...

... Womens complaints are often treated like mental illness, sicne docotors dont take them seriously. The key word in this whole thing is CONSUMER.

.... Your complaints are valid. They stem however from the current lack of access and information to proper healthcare options, sometimes even incompetence, but not a conspiracy of the government.

The difference between 'lack of access' and coerced participation
is where best intentions succumb to manipulations.
This illustrates how most of the American sheeple are blissfully unaware that
this is precisely how the Nazi Germany started down the path to genocide.
It doesn't begin as a 'government conspiracy' -
it begins as piracy of cons fleecing an incompetent government.
Nazis fed upon a government mandate to vanquish the ills of society.
Democraticly elected, as controversially as Bush,
Hitler staffed an unelected bureaucracy to implement increasingly popular
programs to terminally eliminate every instance of non-conformity.

There is never an overt conspiracy,
merely an under-appreciated re-orientation of fundamental perspectives.

Step1: spread a half-truth
'People need to be looked after, they are unable to fend for themselves.'
This is bread and butter to those who want to control you.
Control freaks span the spectrum, from communist to liberal to NeoCon -
- they all want you to believe that they are legislating to 'protect the weak'.
The truth is they need your initial support to establish a legislative toehold.

Step2: propose a 'government solution'
'Our profession can provide the expertise to address the problem. Empower us.'
Every problem needs a solution, and these folks need your help to enforce it.
They sidestep the issue of why government intervention is necessary.
They then proceed to paint the issue as a responsibility of government.

Step3: Use official acceptance to institutionalize as a government authority.
'As duly authorized by... ..., law enforcement can summoned to ensure compliance'

Originally posted by Relentless
...Personally, on this one I don't care who pays for it....

Precisely a point that attracts the sharks of industry to the feeding grounds of government.
Taxation can be adjusted, and, with proper medication,
so can attitudes toward paying higher taxes to remedy your attitudes.
Of course, if you don't care in the beginning,
you certainly won't care when it ends either.
And if you happen to grow concerned about anything you shouldn't,
there will be medical professionals to help you regain your proper attitudes.
All Free of Charge, mind you...

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
As Marg, I think, stated earlier more and more children with behaviour problems are being drugged to control them. I think this is the direction our government is headed. Of course, with the aid of drug companies and endless commercials and ads for an endless number of new drugs. Some of which are pushed through and may not be totally tested---can anyone here say "guinea pig"

Reminds me of the song "White Rabbit" by Jefferson Airplane

So, they will start this with the youth of our country. By the time they reach maturity, a large part of the population will be controlled one way or another.

I'm not saying we will lose our free will, ...

We can not lose our free will if we have already abandoned it.
The corporates found what was left of our 'free will' tossed in a back room in Congress.
They are busy fabricating a marketable substitute for it...

Yesterday's news, for example, where does one start?
These are the folks you are considering entrusting with enforceable "care"

From Doctor Jailed for Billing for Sex
Reuters - Mon Jun 21, 8:11 AM ET

An Oregon doctor, who had sex with a patient and then charged the state about $5,000 for his "treatments," has been jailed for 60 days and stripped of his license, officials said on Friday.

And of course, with new authority given by the feds,
he could continue his career without a glitch.
A quick search on this topic alone with keep a reader busy for years,
as there are thousands of articles about how medical practitioners
seem to have problems when it comes to their own attitudes and behaviour.
If we give these folks the power to determine our attitudes,
then we might as well get preparatory rape counselling.

From Tragic teen suicides inspire idea that invites more
USATODAY.com - Mon Jun 21, 6:50 AM ET

In heart-wrenching testimony before federal drug regulators last February, parent after parent related how their teens had committed suicide after taking prescription antidepressants. In one case, a father told of how his 17-year-old hanged herself after seven days on Zoloft, which her doctor had stressed was safe.

These are the same kind of people sought to address your mental illnesses.
Who knows what else they might care to define as mental illness? Dissent, perhaps?

And then, my favorite quote:

Originally posted by SkipShipman
Screen our leaders first

Maybe they are the only ones who need to be screened.
A perfect solution!
Anyone working for or employed by the Federal or State government
is required henceforth to prove the following:
competence
maturity
integrity
honesty
intelligence
before reporting to work. Weekly, if necessary.
No need to screen the population, just screen the 'leaders'.

Originally posted by jrod
Everyone should be screened for health problems....

The first subjects Consumers of screening should be all subjects Consumers who support mandatory screening.

The first screenings should be a mental health examination
to specificly ensure that subjects Consumers who support mandatory screening
do not have any delusions about how well government programs are implemented.

As necessary, subjects Consumers should be
quarantined, physically restrained and sedated in order to ensure
that necessary courses of medication are run to completion.

Additional psychological reprogramming can be arranged to ensure that
subjects Consumers are successfully re-integrated into the
appropriate demographic support population.

...Quarantine, sedate, Medicate. repeat as necessary.

Just like the nice work achieved by mandatory AIDS treatment for children.

The judge asked her how she got the kids to take the drugs. And she said �We�re like Nazis when it comes to compliance.� Those were her words.

...X...

[edit on 2004-7-7 by Teknik]

Found the following, which refers to King George's previous program for
� Medical Experiments on SchoolChildren
� No Child Left Unmedicated:

The pilot program, called the Texas Medication Algorithm (TMAP), was implemented under then-Governor George W. Bush. TMAP promoted the use of new, expensive antidepressant drugs to treat schoolchildren diagnosed with behavioral problems. Allen Jones, an official in Pennsylvania who helped implement that state�s version of the program, disclosed that "key officials with influence over the medication plan � received money and perks from drug companies with a stake in the medication algorithm."

Feel Better Now?

I want to kick Orwell in the head sometimes

Sh*t he's dead, Ohwell , Orwell your right agian

hmmmmm.

screening preschoolers for mental illness?? but no one even knows whether mental illness is genetic or enviromentally caused.

there was a case of two twins, both predisposed to mental illness, both took class A drugs such as lsd and drank heavily. ONE got mentally ill the other DID NOT! So where is the genetics in that??

People can be well adjusted throughout life, hit a certain combination of stress and become mentally ill, after being screened at preschool!

this smells like orwell.

whats the irony?? theres more mental illness now thanks to the mass anxiety and shock caused by 911.

and the meds have long term effects that can CAUSE mental illness, thats a proven fact! there is no cure for mental illness. none. its just another way for companies to make massive profits off of the weak in society.

[edit on 28-7-2004 by TruthStrgnrThanFiction]