Originally posted by marg6043
First the government try to control children with Ritalin and antidepressants and now they want to make sure they are mentally disturb so the government can take over the parents consent (because obviously parents will be mentally disturb too) and turn them into zombies, Unbelievable.

oh, you should read before getting mad, the report is to help improve medical care, accessability, etc for the disabled, i think its a good thing what the report is trying to do.

Originally posted by Ouroboros
I wonder just how many will be classed as having a mental illness and whether or not those records will be made public.

I say this because this is potentially a very dangerous path to take, to have a government screen their citizens deciding which are, and which are not mentally ill.

Though these are just my initial thoughts - not thought through and as such - this is just a rant. Not the ranting of someone mentally ill, however, I assure you.

it infers screening of people who are mentally ill or might be, not all 290 million of us, thats what i got from it.

Actually it may be good for people that indeed have mental illness, but what is going to do is give more consumers for the drug industry. Drug companies make more money on treatments that does on finding cures.

If you are depressed or have a mental illness (depression falls under) you will be taking drugs to control your problem in a regular basis.

We are becoming targeted consumers to the drug industry.

Originally posted by marg6043
Actually it may be good for people that indeed have mental illness, but what is going to do is give more consumers for the drug industry. Drug companies make more money on treatments that does on finding cures.

If you are depressed or have a mental illness (depression falls under) you will be taking drugs to control your problem in a regular basis.

We are becoming targeted consumers to the drug industry.

but many need such drugs, its not all about the industries, this is a result of people having trouble getting care and things needed to be normal, these ill and family of the ill testifying their issue with health care.

[edit on 19-6-2004 by namehere]

I think most of the report means well, and most people would be for greater access to services, particularly for those who are slipping through the net at the moment. Screening and mandatory treatment are dangerous solutions though. Better education about the issues, easier access and inproved facilities should come first, not government screening and mandatory "treatment". Mental health issues are too often mis-diagnosed or mis-understood.

Yes, most of the report seems to mean well, but the danger is in the details.

May be then people will understand that they are depending on drugs, when I get depress I don't go to a doctor to ask for a pill, I work the problem and face the fear myself.

We humans have the power to work our problems but we are to dependant on others to tell us was is wrong.

We are made to believe that a pill is going to help with all our problems, that magical pill that does not exist, must antidepressant and mode controlling drugs have more side effects than the actual depression itself..

It is not such thing as a magical cure.

Originally posted by muppet
I think most of the report means well, and most people would be for greater access to services, particularly for those who are slipping through the net at the moment. Screening and mandatory treatment are dangerous solutions though. Better education about the issues, easier access and inproved facilities should come first, not government screening and mandatory "treatment". Mental health issues are too often mis-diagnosed or mis-understood.

Yes, most of the report seems to mean well, but the danger is in the details.

that is part of the report, to improve facilities and education, it critisizes how things currently are, its not wanting government (it wants better medical screening, health care is state and local run not federal)screening and treatment is not mandatory, civil rights do apply still, the whole base of the report is disabled rights, to help and improve health care and gve greater accessability.

there is no danger of abuse here that i can see.

Originally posted by marg6043
May be then people will understand that they are depending on drugs, when I get depress I don't go to a doctor to ask for a pill, I work the problem and face the fear myself.

We humans have the power to work our problems but we are to dependant on others to tell us was is wrong.

We are made to believe that a pill is going to help with all our problems, that magical pill that does not exist, must antidepressant and mode controlling drugs have more side effects than the actual depression itself..

It is not such thing as a magical cure.

some things do require drugs though, the nature of mental illness is that you cant control things, its not as simple as not being this or that, one person who commented to the commission about people saying things like you just did, its ignorant to say such things, of course drugs are no cure, but they help treat, the report even says so and givs an idea of what to do in failed cases, please read and interpret things before commenting on such reports you dont understand.

[edit on 19-6-2004 by namehere]

[edit on 2004-7-5 by Teknik]

Thanks for the continuing debate on this issue namehere.

Though a healthy dose of suspicion is good, it can be disturbing when it goes so far as to mistrust everything.

What people really should be concerned about with the current situation of mental healthcare is that there are not enough programs or procedures to assist those that need it. In fact, there are so many safeguards in place to protect the civil rights of people who need help, a loved ones hands are often tied to prevent stepping in - even with a life at stake. This is what should frighten everyone, since it often prevents people who can have their problems (such as chemical imbalances) corrected from getting diagnosed and treated if they have made it to adulthood without the problem being recognized.

In addition, often people who aren't diagnosed and treated are self medicating, so they end up mislabled as alcoholics or drug abusers. Once that label is applied it becomes even less likely for that person to ever get the help they need that can put them back into a normal productive life. They are written off as weak and treated harshly for it. The kick em in the butt tough love approach, or the "let God, let go attitutude" that basically says no point in helping someone until they are ready to help themselves is what they end up with instead of what they need. Even if you/they succeed in getting them into help, there is the daily fear that the HMO will cut them off before the problem is resolved. If the "mandatory" statement refers to mandatory that their rights to be treated are protected then this is a step in the right direction.

The irony is someone with a real mental health problem, often caused by a correctable physical condition, is rarely in a position to see they need help or capable of doing it. So they are wandering the world frequently endangering themselves and others along the way. Having been through this with a loved one (who luckily is now properly diagnosed and treated after losing 20 years of a life) I see this news as a ray of hope. If a program like this were in place and working, perhaps less people would lose decades of their lives living in a painful world we can't even comprehend or worse yet lose their lives entirely when there was a simple and effective treatment that could correct the problem.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh SHiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit . No good can come of this. It could soooo esily be used for evil .

DOCTOR

“Citizen, you think the Govnment. is what ???, Well I'm a afraid that your going to have to be relocated for a time to one of our Happy Communities. There you’re going to be helped and given medical aid to cure you of those unpleasant thoughts. "

SIX months later

Patient

"Yes doctor you were right, I feel soo much better now. No longer will I think such bad things about our fine government. I'm sooo happy and content now . "


[edit on C:Sunocu06e6 by Opus]

This can't posibly be true. After some thought , I find this hard to beleive. If it is , just maybe it wont be used for evil , maybe it will be a good thing.

This is what should frighten everyone, since it often prevents people who can have their problems (such as chemical imbalances) corrected from getting diagnosed and treated if they have made it to adulthood without the problem being recognized.

Umm, do you realize that chemicals are only released in the brain at certain times, when it is mandated by the super-ego. This applies to serotonin as well.

THE EMOTIONS CAUSE THE CHEMICAL IMBALANCE, the chemical imbalance does not cause the emotions. That is what the drug companies would like you to think, so you rely solely on their drugs. I've known so many people who buy these drugs without actually talking to a pyschiatrist about their problems.

But anyway the point is, is that most of these mental health issues can easily be talked through, through multiple sessions. As well, society is the source of many of the problems that these individuals have with themself.

As Freud predicted, society now, has a mental disorder, perpetuated by its disregard for human instinct.

Also, the report says consumer-driven. What does that mean? That they teach the mentally ill to buy drugs all their lives at a certain age. Anyway this is all BS, just more reliance on a flawed system/religion (pyschiatry and drugs). The more the government relies on it, the more we forget there was something wrong with it in the first place.

The key here, folks, the keyword, is CONSUMER.

Let us remember, this is a NEO Con Bush, a friend to the allmighty drug companies. What I think this will develop into? Govornment as ultimate drug pusher.

Look how many times the word "consumer" is mentioned. Not people, not patients, CONSUMER. My guess is, they wont forcibly screen people, but start one hell of an ad campaign to convince people they are nuts, so they go shell out money to a shrink, get diagnosed as being koo-koo, then doped up on meds. Everyone gets rich except the poor bastard who thinks hes crazy.

I really have no respect for the pseudo science of modern psychology. If you come from what they consider a "dysfunctional family" youre dysfunctional too. And 98% of american households are dysfunctional by thier standards. They have used thier prestige as scientists to force everyone into thier narrow definition of "normal".

The feasability, however, of screening the entire population, is laughable. The sheer cost. Who the hell is gonna pay for it? The same president who is raping medicare? hell no! No, hes simply gonna start a campaign to convince everyonbe they are nuts so they pour into the docs, pay the bills, get doped up- and hooked. Thats what this very well could be.

I myself was institutionalized as a teenager. Parental paranoia is a powerful force that can shape a kids life. I had alot of problems when i was 16, that had maybe 30% to do with a chemical imbalance, and 70% to do with the #ed up joke of a world i was living in. Thankfully, even after going through the mind factory that modern psychiatric and psychological therapy is, I came out intact, enlightened, and with one final assumption:

Im ok, its everyone else on this #hole planets thats out of thier #ing minds.

Originally posted by Jamuhn

This is what should frighten everyone, since it often prevents people who can have their problems (such as chemical imbalances) corrected from getting diagnosed and treated if they have made it to adulthood without the problem being recognized.

Umm, do you realize that chemicals are only released in the brain at certain times, when it is mandated by the super-ego. This applies to serotonin as well.

THE EMOTIONS CAUSE THE CHEMICAL IMBALANCE, the chemical imbalance does not cause the emotions.

Okay, so are you saying there is no chance of this process going awry? That is what I am talking about. A chemical misfire - not working the way it is suppossed to (if the way you describe it is assumed at the moment to be accurate). I am talking about illness, no different than another part of someones body going awry and say growing cancer, illness that needs intervention, that cannot be resolved by a proper talking to, since until the chemicals are corrected, the person is incapable of comprehending and interpreting what you are saying.

How lucky for you if you don't understand what I am talking about. I would not wish anyone to have to go through it, or helplessly watch anyone they love deal with it. My thoughts are from witnessing the devastation of bipolar disorder. Please do not underestimate the reality of an illness like this, not even for the sake of healthy paranoia against what the government may be up to next.

The concerns of this thread are valid, as anything the government does even with the best intentions can be abused. So be ever watchful, BUT we cannot read into/write off everything before looking at both sides.

Does anyone know for instance if these policies were proposed by mental health advocates in the first place and whether or not they support them?

As Marg, I think, stated earlier more and more children with behaviour problems are being drugged to control them. I think this is the direction our government is headed. Of course, with the aid of drug companies and endless commercials and ads for an endless number of new drugs. Some of which are pushed through and may not be totally tested---can anyone here say "guinea pig"
Reminds me of the song "White Rabbit" by Jefferson Airplane

So, they will start this with the youth of our country. By the time they reach maturity, a large part of the population will be controlled one way or another.

I'm not saying we will lose our free will, but we will rely increasingly on legal drugs to get us through the day. Some will "help" us with physical problems, others with emotional and mental problems.
__________________
As for the lofty idea of better mental health care, or any other type of health care in this nation:
WHO'S gonna PAY for it??????? Not me, the lowly taxpayer. You must be joking.

this ridiculous, not everything is a freaking conspiracy, are you people aware of drug company sponsored health programs?thats one thing it suggests making more common, it also wants medicare and medicaid to help pay for drugs instead of ill people who cant pay for such drugs do it or miss it because they cant pay, leave your damn philosophies and crap to yourselves, reality doesnt work as simple as you asssume, you try having such illnesses and disabilities, you cant imagine such a life, many are currenty forced into nursing homes because things are so messed up, try reading everything related to this, none of you seemed to have, dont jump to conclusions without knowing what youre saying, its not a damn conspiracy, you obviously dont know what things are like, this report is to help improve disabled peoples lives, people effected by such things are the ones who suggested everything in the report. arghh you people need to realise this is a good thing, there is no way it can be abused if you bothered reading it all without looking for a conspiracy.

Um, namehere, re read. Its pretty obvious what this is. I have had to deal with depression before, debilitating depression, and the more drugs that were pushed on me, the worse it got. SOMEONE has to pay for medicaid. Someone has to pay these pharmeceutical companies for thier ridiculously priced drugs. Do you know how much a prescription of Zoloft costs a month? 120 bucks. My stepdad is on it. They cut him off. Its very expensive. Whose gonna pick up the bill? YOU. Of course the drug companies want medicaid to pay for it. They realize now, with millions of Americans running out of health insurance and not going to see thier doctors, and getting poorer, they are losing a market. Its also a well known fact that many docotors overprescribe mental health meds, instead of looking at physical causes, like thyroid disorders. Womens complaints are often treated like mental illness, sicne docotors dont take them seriously. The key word in this whole thing is CONSUMER.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

whatever, i read the WHOLE report and what the report was created in response to, drug companies had nothing to do with it in anyway, it was doctors, disabled advocates, disabled people, their family, nurses and no corporate interference, you have no idea what youre talking about here, there is nothing suspect here.