Why the west should fear muslims

reply to post by oozyism


You still drinking oozy like the good Muslim you are?

And fighting again.

You really are better than this.

reply to post by poet1b


I can't make it anymore simpler Poet:

Westerners do treat their women like property, have you ever been to a strip club> ? Have you ever been to a club? Have you ever been to a bar?

So if I generalize the whole West based on those PIMPS I can conclude that West treat their women based on PIMPISM. I unlike you am not a hater, and was just trying to point out your false argument, that just because some Muslims treat their women like dirt, that somehow Islam and the whole Muslim world wide should be hated.

Think about it.

I agree that Muslims do treat their women like dirt, but at the same time I also condone that most don't, most treat their women with at most respect,

In the same manner you should agree that Westerners do treat their women like dirt, but at the same time also condone that most treat their women with at most respect.

But you only focus on the negative, which is portrayed mostly on TV, forgetting about positive, the product is hate.

It is understandable, but since I live in a Western country I can see both sides of the fence with clear vision, unlike you.

I'm just trying to say that if I focus on the negatives of the West I can come to the same hateful conclusions as you, and I have personally experienced how some women are treated in West, hence my neighbor always beats his Mrs. every time he gets drunk, sometimes when he is not even drunk. So I can conclude based on hate that all Westerners are like that, that it is in Western culture.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by oozyism

 

You still drinking oozy like the good Muslim you are?

And fighting again.

You really are better than this.

Ahh well that was my first time in 2 and half week drinking.

Cutting down from drinking in daily bases, huge improvement

Wrong is wrong I admit, but if it makes me a hypocrite, I accept that also.

People are people, not simply members of a religion. There are peaceful and violent people of every faith, and there are peaceful and violent atheists.

This discussion is asinine, but it is one that has always existed because of ignorant people, and will continue to exist until we evolve into higher beings with more control over our emotions.

This stupidity is just growing pains on a macro level.

I try to avoid conflict. I have nothing against anyone regarding there own religious or personal beliefs. As long as they mean no harm to me and do no harm to em they are okay in my book. Muslim, Christian or otherwise has nothing to do with it. It's the person I take into consideration. I find the entire premise of this thread to be lacking in doing any good for anyone. If anything ti breeds the very same hatred perpetrated upon people because of there Muslim religious beliefs.

It is your right to express your feelings on the matter as you after all a human being and entitled to express yourself as such. But you also have a responsibility like all of us to ensure that hatred is not perpetual over such views and perceptions. You don't have to like them but you don't have to motivate others to feel and think the same as you either.

I am not a Politically correct person and one of the last people to ever care what most think of me but I am a well rounded human being who knows that I have a responsibility to be accountable for my actions just the same as every one else.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by poet1b

 

I can't make it anymore simpler Poet:

Westerners do treat their women like property, have you ever been to a strip club> ? Have you ever been to a club? Have you ever been to a bar?

All the women there,
are by their own free will.
They have decided to work there,
when many other options are available.

Muslim women have no alternatives,
sex trade is about the only thing they are allowed to do.
video.google.com...#

Google Video Link

I agree that Muslims do treat their women like dirt, but at the same time I also condone that most don't, most treat their women with at most respect,

I'm sorry,
but I'm sure dirt gets more respect.

Land is always a valuable asset,
and in the deserts of the islamic world,
finding some clay dirt is precious.

To a muslim, women are abundant,
they are bought and sold as commodities.
They are even willing to steal children,
from other countries, to satisfy their fantasies.

It is understandable, but since I live in a Western country I can see both sides of the fence with clear vision, unlike you.

Really? Have you been to Mecca?

I'm just trying to say that if I focus on the negatives of the West I can come to the same hateful conclusions as you, and I have personally experienced how some women are treated in West, hence my neighbor always beats his Mrs. every time he gets drunk, sometimes when he is not even drunk. So I can conclude based on hate that all Westerners are like that, that it is in Western culture.

There is quite a big difference.
In the west the vast majority see that as abhorrent behaviour.
In Islamic countries, it is condoned and supported.

Killing daughters and beating wives is the commonplace experience.
Men beat their wives, mothers beat their children, and children beat those they can.
If women had any say, it would be a much more peaceful regime.
But women are only used for their reproductive facilities.
So masculine aggression dominates,
in Muslim society.


[edit on 17-8-2010 by lowki]

reply to post by Burgo

Sex, Drugs, Rock N Roll ... Yeh Thats A Real Positive Change

Sex and drugs are universals, not particular to the west.

Rock N Roll, now that is American.

It sure beats getting married to your twenty something cousin when you are twelve or thirteen, now that is screwed up. This is a pretty common practice among European Muslims.

Or worse yet, getting sold into sexual slavery to some old guy when you are twelve or thirteen.

I don't know if you ever bothered to notice, but women like being able to dress up and look pretty. It is something most women like to do, and when given the opportunity, that is what they do. They also like to be looked at and admired. It tends to be a normal desire.

It is the drinking and acting like an idiot that most women don't like.

If you ever bothered to pay attention to what women like, mate.

reply to post by lowki


haha thanks for breaking my post down. I liked it a lot!
this was probably my most pro-Muslim post yet and that's saying a lot.
my point is that this is a culture shock, i guess that's my bottom line.

reply to post by lowki


Thank you for sharing that video as well as the information. Sometimes, we hear these horrible things take place but we never really contemplate how bad it is.

With great regards, PJAmerica

reply to post by Acharya


I have taken grate offense to your charactizations of the Muslim faith. Outrageous. I myself have practiced, and NEVER have I sought to impart destruction or pain upon any of Gods creatures. A shame on you for this egregious assertion!

Originally posted by randomname
reply to post by Acharya

 

so the other fifty percent of rapes where made by norwegians, i guess you and the "non western" background people have a lot in common, like raping women.

My post states that official statistics says 49 of 49 assult rapes in Oslo were made by persons of a "non-western" background. 49 of 49 is not 50% but 100%, back to school with you, sir

Originally posted by Acharya
Why the west should fear muslims

They shouldnt.
2nd

reply to post by oozyism


Of course I have been to a strip club. There is nothing particularly western about strip clubs. Haven't you ever heard of the dance of a thousand veils, belly dancing, geisha girls?

Sure, I have been to plenty of clubs, and from my experience, it is the girls who choose what they want. Not the other way around. With the money they make where I live, working in offices typically, they often are the ones buying the drinks.

Where I live, there are more and more women who make more money than their men, so your pimp accusation is completely false.

The differences is that women in the west can go to school, get jobs, make good money, where as in the Muslim controlled world they are not allowed to go to school, get regular jobs. They are not allowed to dress the way they like, and are usually bought and sold in arranged marriages.

The difference is huge. It is pretty easy to understand the frustration Muslim men must go through. Thus the clash of cultures.

The result of western culture leads to higher standards of living, and vastly improved life styles.

Back to my original point, excessive birth rates in third world nations, mainly due to culture, do not justify excessive immigration, that erodes the culture of first world nations. It is good to help out others, but not at the cost of your own future, and the future of your children.

The problem isn't the people, it is the culture, and the religion is a huge part of that culture, that keeps them locked in poverty. The only way to break away from the poverty is to change the culture. Changing their attitudes about women is one of the biggest problems, thus the high birth rates.

Do you see the vicious circle?

reply to post by Acharya


Do you have an equivalent of the British National Party in your country? If so, you really should join them.

Your statistics on IQ are utterly irrelevant. IQ is proven to have a massive cultural bias. People raised in a tough, war-torn desert will not achieve the same scores in a western test of what we value as IQ as someone raised and educated within that system. If we were to test a tribesperson from the Amazon, they would appear stupid. If they were to test us on a similarly biased basis, we would appear exceptionally stupid.

One interesting point you make: islam is not a peaceful religion. Well, no, it isn't. There really isn't one. (Buddhism? Is it a religion in the same sense? it certainly isn't aggressively expansionist and based on conquest.) Islam spread throughout the middle east and mediterranean through violent conquest. Christianity fought back. Both religions were simply rehashing ancient battle going back to the persians and the greeks.

However, Islam is no more or less violent than Christianity. They are very similar. I know many peaceful, fair muslims whose children are academically successful, well adjusted western citizens. I also know of some who are not.

just like the rest of us, believer, athiest, whatever.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by poet1b

 

OK let's make this simple poet, let's both be haters.

Think about it, when I point out that the West has a PIMP attitude towards their women (I generalized according to your logic), you claim I'm a hater, but when you claim Muslims treat their women like property (you generalized according to your logic), you refuse to accept you are a hater.

I basically said the same thing you said, yet I'm a hater, but you refuse to acknowledge you are a hater also.

That is the point I'm getting at, denial is real, I lost a fight last weaken but still am in denial, because I don't remember what happened, I was too drunk. That being said, every witness said I lost, but I still refuse, my brain hid everything from me so that I don't accept the defeat which I received. Interesting right

A good point. Although hate is a negative emotion perhaps people should admit having it, we are just humans afterall. Although many westernes deny their hate towards muslims and their culture so do muslims, this deniel may also be to one self. Many in this post has called me a hater, I don't think I am but still I feel anger; I have accepted the fact that these feeling exists and it only underlines my original conclusion that western immigration of muslim has failed. The hate and anger from both sides will continue to grow until conflicts will emerge, as they already are. Its like two people that live together in the same house and they hate eachother because of their differences, they may try and try to fix their relationship without success, then they take the only sound solution; to split apart.

Originally posted by SmokeandShadow
reply to post by Acharya

 

If they are so stupid, why should we fear them???

It take a genious like Leonardo da Vinci to paint the Mona Lisa, and just an idiot with a matchbox to destroy it.

reply to post by lowki


Those are a couple of excellent videos, and some pretty good analysis.

Culture does not change easily, and the change is slow.

Originally posted by anarchosyndicalist
reply to post by Acharya

 

Do you have an equivalent of the British National Party in your country? If so, you really should join them.

Your statistics on IQ are utterly irrelevant. IQ is proven to have a massive cultural bias. People raised in a tough, war-torn desert will not achieve the same scores in a western test of what we value as IQ as someone raised and educated within that system. If we were to test a tribesperson from the Amazon, they would appear stupid. If they were to test us on a similarly biased basis, we would appear exceptionally stupid.

I believe that people from the countries with low IQ would get a much better IQ score if they lived in a western country becuase of the bad education etc. they have there, but the point I was trying to make is that the immigrants from this country have this IQ when they come here and we cant change that, its too late for them to get much smarter as many are already grown up. This is the problem with the 1. generation muslim immigrants in the west, the problem with the 2. generation muslim immigrants is that they don't want to integrate into the western society, this causes them to never to learn to speak, read, and write the local language well enough to get a good education and also causes alienation from the very society that they live within.

Originally posted by anarchosyndicalist
One interesting point you make: islam is not a peaceful religion. Well, no, it isn't. There really isn't one. (Buddhism? Is it a religion in the same sense? it certainly isn't aggressively expansionist and based on conquest.) Islam spread throughout the middle east and mediterranean through violent conquest. Christianity fought back. Both religions were simply rehashing ancient battle going back to the persians and the greeks.

However, Islam is no more or less violent than Christianity. They are very similar. I know many peaceful, fair muslims whose children are academically successful, well adjusted western citizens. I also know of some who are not.

just like the rest of us, believer, athiest, whatever.

Originally posted by Adevoc Satanae

Originally posted by faceoff85
Uhmm its been about 9 years, the timestamp was a bit of mockery from my side.. I could honestly not say what time it was. All I know is that I personally saw them celebrating that attack

Just curious since the first plane did not hit until around 3pm. It was not reported immediately and when it was it was just a plane crash. By the time it was reported that an attack had taken place we are talking around 3:30pm. Just strikes me as funny when people take an important date like 9/11 and say they have a vivid memory from that day because of the events and is off by hours. Just curious.

Originally posted by Adevoc Satanae

Originally posted by faceoff85
Uhmm its been about 9 years, the timestamp was a bit of mockery from my side.. I could honestly not say what time it was. All I know is that I personally saw them celebrating that attack

Just curious since the first plane did not hit until around 3pm. It was not reported immediately and when it was it was just a plane crash. By the time it was reported that an attack had taken place we are talking around 3:30pm. Just strikes me as funny when people take an important date like 9/11 and say they have a vivid memory from that day because of the events and is off by hours. Just curious.

Not sure of the relevance, but I do in fact have a vivid memory of that day. I was in the shower getting ready for work. It was in the morning both CDT and EDT in the USA.

Yes. It was first reported as a plane crash. My girlfriend at the time yelled into the shower as I was getting ready for work. "A plane just hit the World Trade Center". I pictured in my mind a little twin engine prop plane and thought...why would that be worthy of comming upstairs and telling me during a shower. I said "what kind of plane", She said "an airliner" and I felt this sinking feeling.

I have a vivid memory of the entire day....No planes above, everyone was in a semi-daze...not one single person honked their horn in traffic on the way to work. It was a bizzare time.

wikipedia states the attacks ranging from 8:46 am – 10:28 am which is in keeping with my memory.

Not sure if this was cleared up on thread already. Maybe it is a sign of age when people don't have a neccessarily vivid accounting of that day? Youngsters might not have been tuned in?

To be precise the first plane struck at 8:46AM Eastern Time according to everything I can find.



[edit on 17-8-2010 by maybereal11]

reply to post by Magnum007


All the religions and their so called holy books giving the advice for killing the non-believers. This is a fact. Its written in Koran, Bible and Torah. Even the name Islam does not mean Peace, it means submission.
Anyone who has a belief in such religions will be a threat even to each other soon or later. No one is an equal believer, I mean, every religious believer has a different view of his/her religion, even they are separated in different classes and way of worshipping their god or prophet.
There are now new gods... Oil Gods, Bank Gods, Food Gods..... We worship them all and this is where we come to a similarity between believers and the non-believers. A conscious non-believer worships only the Gods he can see or interact with, be it in a mirror or at a Bank desk.
A true non-believer does not care about religion, he/she cares only about life and his/her experiences.

What I find always interesting, if a person talks to God it is ok but if he/she claims to be spoken by God, everyone look at him/her as if they were crazy or freaks.
Time to grow UP!