An open message to you all "Since when did this website become.....

reply to post by Stormdancer777


What??

Stormdancer I didn't expect that of you. Just people people choose not to believe in what Xtians believe does not make them haters! Just because we choose to ignore the bible despite having one in the house or coming from Xtian households does not make anyone a hater. Or are you part of the "Accept or die troop"?

Did I misunderstand you?

Originally posted by jimmyx
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

well, OZ...all of what you describe in your opening post has been coming from one political side. but that side has ratcheted it up to the point that they make no secret of who the "enemy" and have no qualms about lying or stretching the truth as to the nature of that "enemy".

No it hasn't. It's been coming from both sides, constantly, endlessly, and without shame. Blinders off, please.

Stormfront infiltrates every forum eventually.

I haven't been here long, but it seems like a lot more of them have come over this year.

Here's a thought. Why not make registration more formal. Only people with college degrees can register. Or maybe we should submit a list of references before we can register.

Point being this, all this talk about well thought out posts aren't a part of the registration process. So to penalize people after the fact is a little too late don't you think.

But I understand that to be a debunker tool in the toolbox. Discredit someone by claiming their post is not well though out. Sort of along the lines of calling a scientist a quack when they don't agree with what he or she says.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Hi, Oz. On many levels I agree with you. On some I have to disagree.

Actual hate speech or antagonistic rhetoric is not allowed on ATS. If there is a blatant offense, we always urge members to hit alert and let the staff discuss and handle it.

Related official ATS Thread: THE END OF HATE SPEECH, SUBTLE OR OTHERWISE.

So I do understand what you mean. On a personal note, I have difficulty participating in religious threads these days because it is too frustrating to see my Christian faith consistently ridiculed. Even if a thread is about another religion, the thread will generally derail to Christianity within 3-5 posts. We're also not a religion that gets protection from 'PC outrage' like other faiths (for instance, I notice you use specific examples of intolerance towards religions in your OP but do not include Christianity) so it's generally a free pass to hate on Christianity.

So on one hand I really do want to say I fully agree. But here is another ATS thread to keep in mind:

THE RISE OF THE ATS INVERTEBRATE: OR IT TAKES SPINE TO BE A CONSPIRACY THEORIST.

Although I DO understand your concern, we also have to realize where we are: A conspiracy site. Therefore, we really need to consider what is a valid conspiracy topic vs. actual hate.

I too often see acceptable threads being declared hateful and bigoted when they are not. They are definitely sensitive topics that require maturity but they are not 'hateful.'

For instance, threads speculating on various religious groups taking over the world. The three most common conspiracies for religious domination would be Christianity, Islam, and Zionism. In and of themselves, that is not hateful to offer such a theory. If a member wants to speculate on Christian Dominionism, Islamization, or some Zionist plot then it is fair game.

To use another example you mentioned: Cops/Military. Again, we need to realize where we are. Many members will have the sentiments that lean towards being against 'the man.' So we should expect and tolerate a certain level of resentment and criticism towards such groups. However, we will not tolerate posts that mention venturing out to kill officers, for example.

So I agree and disagree with you at the same time. We have to leave room to allow things for a healthy debate. I come to ATS because it IS a place where mature and touchy topics can be discussed. I don't come here to read threads about Dolphin Bubbles and the Craziest Lightning Strike ever captured on film.

In Conclusion: We don't want hate *OR* political correctness to take over which is why I juxtapose 2 official ATS threads above. What we need is to allow certain subjects to be discussed and use our discernment for what crosses the line. Discussing homosexual conspiracies is a very touchy subject but it is allowed. Discussing religious conspiracies is allowed. Having an unfavorable opinion of law enforcement officers is allowed. Just don't venture into the extreme of antagonism or hate.

Many things are allowed as long as that fine line isn't crossed.

reply to post by AshleyD


Or, do what I do, and blame AshleyD for all the ills in the world, it's AMAIZING how much it helps.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Well, said and I'm with you and I feel your pain. To me it seems as though all "those haters" come and go in waves and take turns in insulting rational and peace-loving people. Some days the neo-fascists seem to have taken over the boards, on others it's the religious crowd and so on and so forth. It comes and goes. And yes, it is tedious and some days I'm just frustrated and others I just shoot out of lurking mode to try and make a difference.

I'd agree also with the posters who said that you must be and live the change that you want to see on these boards. So, all of you who complain that the quality of posts is not what it used to be, start making qualitative posts. Finally, I also agree that a large part of the problem is that this is the internet and these are also very successful boards, which naturally attracts a lot of people from all walks of life (among others BNP, KKK, White supremacy folk, Christian fundamentalists, fundamentalists in general of all religions, you know, tutti frutti as the Italians say.)

And on the subject of freedom of speech, over here in Europe there are countries where hate speech is not tolerated and is punishable by law. Would it be fine for me, e.g., to postulate that I hate [insert any minority here] and want to kill them? I don't think so. Freedom has one restriction: it stops just a few inches from the nose of my neighbor. And so must freedom of speech have restrictions which are mutually agreed upon in a society and even sometimes defined by law.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by WalterRatlos]

reply to post by AshleyD


That was one of the best worded posts I have seen, and no, I'm not saying that because you are a mod or are agreeing with what I have been saying all along.

ATS is here for theories, opinions and facts.
Everyone is entitled to the first 2, the 3rd should come with proof.

The site became an overload of hate when the Republicans came in. All they do is create or repeat false scandals about the opposing team.

Just because you dislike someone, doesn't give you permission to falsely accuse someone of Not being a legit citizen and beyond.

I look at posts on this site and it sickens me.

Where have you been all your life, in an underground bunker living with pure Mormons? It just happens, everywhere you go there's hate, anger, agitation, love, passion, joy etc. look around on this site, i have also seen some good tings that people have said. There is nowhere (online or off) that you can go to escape SOME hate and anger. The crap the elites do to us on a daily basis and get away with........it just breeds that tgype of behavior. It's a fact of life and everywhere you go you will see it......welcome to the surface world, turn on the television, shake hands with the hate.....it will be your worst enemy or your best friend, but make no mistake about it, ....it's a roomate that you will just have to endure. This site is not an avenue of hate, it is a site of heated discussion and heavy debate.

reply to post by SeventhSeal


Well your avatar sickens me but it's your choice and I respect that

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
The site became an overload of hate when the Republicans came in. All they do is create or repeat false scandals about the opposing team.

Just because you dislike someone, doesn't give you permission to falsely accuse someone of Not being a legit citizen and beyond.

I look at posts on this site and it sickens me.

Here we go. How do you know it was Republicans? How do you know it was not Democrats trying to stick the blame to Republicans like an online false flag event? How do we know what affiliation anyone is, who doesn't say it? This is all conjecture and rumor. I don't like the Repulicans OR Democrats. I think they are both out to kill us for the NWO, but just in their own personal ways, but I don't think it's a good idea to start casting blame.......not sure that will alleviate the hate.

reply to post by whatukno


I also blame myself. Chaos, panic, and disorder follows me wherever I go.



Seriously, though. My favorite 'self policing' method is to follow the motto 'Post Unto Others As You Would Have Them Post Unto You.

More than that, though, I'd like to share something my mother taught me as a little girl. That being, just about ANY opinion can be shared if it is phrased in a graceful, mature, respectful, and scholarly nature.

Sensitive and politically incorrect topics really can be discussed here. It just takes maturity from BOTH sides.

If you want to venture into the very touchy realm of a homosexual conspiracy, do NOT phrase your thread antagonistically. Don't jump in calling throwing around obviously antagonistic words. I'll spare everyone examples. On the other hand, if someone is brave enough to start such a thread, do NOT reply to the thread with emotional outrage with accusations of homophobia. If everyone just sticks to the facts in a scholarly manner, everything can be discussed here within reason.

Or if you want to discuss a religious conspiracy, do NOT start out your thread calling members of said religious groups antagonistic names and talk about how you'd like to isolate them all and drop a nucelar bomb. Likewise, if you are a member of said religion and there is a thread that discusses a valid conspiracy, don't jump in to hammer the OP by calling them some bigot.

If the members STARTING such hot topic threads can do it civilly and scholarly and those REPLYING to such hot topic threads can refute using reason instead of outrage and emotion, ATS would be a better place.

An example of what my mother taught me to show how really ANYTHING can be discussed delicately. We'll use the terrifying question, 'Does this dress make me look fat?'

Incorrect: It's not the dress- you're just freaking FAT!
Correct, honest, and no need for hiding your true opinion under the bed: You have such a lovely figure but I'm not sure that dress does it justice. It doesn't seem to flatter your proportions.

OK, I'm weird and that is an unrelated example but that is how my mother raised me. She always encouraged me to speak my mind even with difficult questions and topics but to do it in a manner that doesn't come across as a slap in the face to someone else.

I'd hate for the ATS discussions to get fluffy or disgusting. Ideally, we'd handle it maturely and take on those hot topics head on. It just requires an effort from all of us.

reply to post by AshleyD


I think what you are saying makes perfect sense. The only problem is thats it unlikely that many, if any of us, will actually change. Even if we do, it still takes a great deal of time to get out of the habit

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
The site became an overload of hate when the Republicans came in. All they do is create or repeat false scandals about the opposing team.

Just because you dislike someone, doesn't give you permission to falsely accuse someone of Not being a legit citizen and beyond.

I look at posts on this site and it sickens me.

OH what you really mean to say is everything was alright while the forum was a hate Bush feast, it was fun back in the day, yes?

God help us all.

As someone who's been here for many years, I really don't see that things are much different than it ever was, really. But I will point out that there seems to be this pheonomena, where people who are here for a couple of years suddenly think things have changed. I wonder if there's some threshold of exposure, where either, limits of tolerance are met, or if at this point the poster is involved on a level that exposes them to these conversations.

But I can point out hundreds of posts like this, with exclaimations of, "What has happened to ATS?". Every year, year after year.

I think in a way it's reassuring. Things are as they always were. Give yourself a few more years, you'll see it.

As someone who's been here for many years, I really don't see that things are much different than it ever was, really. But I will point out that there seems to be this pheonomena, where people who are here for a couple of years suddenly think things have changed. I wonder if there's some threshold of exposure, where either, limits of tolerance are met, or if at this point the poster is involved on a level that exposes them to these conversations.

But I can point out hundreds of posts like this, with exclaimations of, "What has happened to ATS?". Every year, year after year.

I think in a way it's reassuring. Things are as they always were. Give yourself a few more years, you'll see it.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


I completely agree even though I haven't been here nearly as long.

Trust me, it will only get worse. (And remember I'm opposed to the negativity!)

The reason I say this is because as any site gets larger, it will attract more attention and come under more fire.

I definitely do NOT think that disinformation "agents" are here. Seriously nobody here is so important that changing their mind / opinion will create a wave of change in "the right direction."

Part of the problem is that people are not following the rules. Users argue and fight so much, it's no longer worth reading past a certain point. Mods tell people to start the name calling "NOW" instead of warning specific people or suspending them right then and there (this one case anyway). Allowing it to continue like this is what perpetuates it.

People know the rules. I read them when I first came here and was afraid to post something "the wrong way" for fear of being kicked off. Eventually I realized the rules were broken all the time; it seemed like a joke to me.

ATS better tighten up. As someone who does follow the rules as best I can, I get sick of seeing everyone else break them and get away with it.

Examples include the popular:

"2nd line"

ALL CAPS SHOUTING

insults, off-topic posts, arguing

---

Enforce the rules!

reply to post by Stormdancer777

OH what you really mean to say is everything was alright while the forum was a hate Bush feast, it was fun back in the day, yes?

There you go, now your getting it.

And yes, Obama was in fact born in Hawaii, really, really he was, and he's not a Muslim anti-Christ, or the destroyer of worlds.

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

What??

Stormdancer I didn't expect that of you. Just people people choose not to believe in what Xtians believe does not make them haters! Just because we choose to ignore the bible despite having one in the house or coming from Xtian households does not make anyone a hater. Or are you part of the "Accept or die troop"?

Did I misunderstand you?

What I meant was, there is a lot of hatred on this forum aimed towards Christians, I don't care what your belief system is or lack of belief, but since I have been here, yes, Christianity is fair game.

That is not to say we shouldn't address religious issues, ALL religions should be equally in this respect, I have been on this forum long enough to read through volumes of Christian bashing threads, and I seldom respond, but if I dare touch on Islam, I get called a racist and a bigot,

and it shocked me that Christianity was left off the OP's list,



[edit on 113131p://bSaturday2010 by Stormdancer777]