mosque near ground zero greenlighted

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posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by muftanan
 


Originally posted by muftanan

And, if you don't know, then sorry, you don't understand the Qur'an at all. That one change in letter changes the meaning, and translations don't really account for such nuances of the arabic language.


Ok Shaheed, just how would you translate Sura IX, 30?



The Jews say, "Ezra (Ozair) is a son of God"; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is a son of God." Such the sayings in their mouths! They resemble the sayings of the Infidels of old! Go do battle with them! How are they misguided!


Hummmm? I will assume that you would translate the word for battle as debate, right?




posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:06 PM
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Battle of words. Battle of wits. Battle of ideologies. Battle of beliefs. Translation is a funny thing, and so is interpretation. Those with violence in their hearts will always leap to violence no matter what. Those who don't never will. Just saying.



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
and your opinion means exactly jack shjt to me


You do know ATS is a discussion forum, right? Do you know what that means or is this another area of ignorance that could use addressing? You start a thread, opinions will come - welcome or not. If you only want to read what you have to say, try blogspot.com.


i think you pretty much described yourself there in those 2 posts.


You mean I started this thread? I am not getting any points for other people posting in it. Odd????




mods feel free to do your your thing i think i crossed that manners and decorum there.


You mean by circumventing the autocensors in about every other post? Yeah, mods get on that.



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 


OK, you cannot answer a simple direct question. Instead you skip it and try to toss another one back. Please take your fake expertise somewhere it might be useful. There is nothing to gain here from pretending to know things you do not.

None of it matters anyway. You should have just not bothered with that readin and understanding nonsense to begin with. What matters is that I am an American Citizen and I understand the right to freedom of religion. I may not even like it very much but that is all I need to understand.

We can choose to be like the Muslim countries you all so readily demonize from and ignorant and safe distance by banning certain religous groups from building their 'churches' or we can remain the great country we keep claiming we are and protect the freedoms that are supposed to be part of that greatness.



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:11 PM
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dp

[edit on 3-8-2010 by Adevoc Satanae]



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:11 PM
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you are not here for debate
you are not here for discussion

your here perched up on your little stool looking down at me and every one who disagrees with you.

every single person in this thread has said what they thought. every single one of them.

for once why dont you try talking to people instead of talking down to them.


every single post you have made in this thread validates this.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by neo96]



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 



Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Battle of words. Battle of wits. Battle of ideologies. Battle of beliefs. Translation is a funny thing, and so is interpretation. Those with violence in their hearts will always leap to violence no matter what. Those who don't never will. Just saying.


If that was the only argument, I would agree. But the book is filled with the most vile vitriol that I have ever read,..... from cover to cover.



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 

Most of those books are a bit violent for my taste, but honestly? I do think a lot has gotten lost in translation and interpretation. In fact, it could probably be argued that the radical extremists really do have their own interpretation?

It happens with the Bible as well. There are different Christian sects who interpret sections of it quite differently, and in fact there are even different versions. Many of the sects even disagree among each other. Same with the Talmud, I believe...in fact aren't there rabbis in Israel arguing that among themselves now?



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
you are not here for debate
you are not here for discussion


I was here for discussion but learned quickly there was none to be had. You refused to answer my simple question.


your here perched up on your little stool looking down at me and every one who disagrees with you.


That is more than silly. First of all I am not looking down on everyone that disagrees with me, just the ones that do for no good reason other than "Moslems is scurry!" Second of all, I need no stool.


every single person in this thread has said what they thought. every single one of them.


Right and that lead to questions but you are not interested in answering questions. This is a DISCUSSION FORUM, not a thought repository.


for once why dont you try talking to people instead of talking down to them.


My first post in this thread was just one simple question. You refused to answer it as you have every other question I have asked since.



every single post you have made in this thread validates this.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by neo96]


Again, my FIRST POST WAS JUST A QUESTION.

"Are you seriously trying to push the idea that this Mosque will lead to another attack on American soil?

To which you replied with ranting.



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 



Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth

Ok Shaheed,


First, thank you for the compliment. It would be an honor, being killed in defense of my beliefs.


just how would you translate Sura IX, 30?



The Jews say, "Ezra (Ozair) is a son of God"; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is a son of God." Such the sayings in their mouths! They resemble the sayings of the Infidels of old! Go do battle with them! How are they misguided!


Hummmm? I will assume that you would translate the word for battle as debate, right?


Actually, you're completely wrong, unsurprisingly. The word isn't even close to "debate." Where'd you get such a silly idea?

The part you incorrectly translated as "Go do battle with them" is actually "May God destroy them." It doesn't tell anyone to "go do battle." It's a curse from God, because of their lies about God and because they followed flawed traditions rather than thinking on their own. The words you wrongly translated are "Qaatalahumu Allahu" which means: Qaatala=May he destroy, humu=them, Allah=God --so it's "May God destroy them."

Thank you for proving my point, and showing your lack of knowledge. Do you even know any basic arabic? A student in arabic 101 could tell you what I just told you.

And please answer my original post. I'm still waiting for your opinion on that verse, ya shaykh.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by muftanan]



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by muftanan
 


"laa ikraahu fiddeen".....There is no compulsion in religion....I am not familiar with the nasb and rafa forms. I do not have to understand mumbo jumbo to realize that Islam is a religion of submission and not a religion of peace.

But I am impressed with your knowledge of....???.... Not bad!

If there is no compulsion in religion, then why are Muslims compelled to kill Christians and Jews......And why are Muslims compelled to travel from Mecca to Medina?



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:43 PM
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Watching you guys talk...honest question here. Do you think Muslims ever feel as if Christians are compelled to or are out to kill them too? The reason I ask is because I've seen that mentioned enough. When presidents and other leaders go around saying they're on a mission from god and happen to be Christian, what else would they think?



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by muftanan
 


Originally posted by muftanan

The part you incorrectly translated as "Go do battle with them" is actually "May God destroy them." It doesn't tell anyone to "go do battle." It's a curse from God, because of their lies about God and because they followed flawed traditions rather than thinking on their own. The words you wrongly translated are "Qaatalahumu Allahu" which means: Qaatala=May he destroy, humu=them, Allah=God --so it's "May God destroy them."



Do you really wish for God to destroy me because I do not adhere your specific beliefs about God?



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 


I'm back in the thread, just for a quick second. "Mumbo Jumbo?"

Wow, do you even know why the Qur'an should NOT be translated to any language outside of its original? Do you understand anything besides what you type into Google to try and feed this transparent facade you are putting on?

And to the OP, it is obvious that you are either a young, naive child or have the mentality of one. Your responses are incoherent, indirect and just complain about pointless rambling. ATS is not a site for blogging or just throwing opinions out without purpose. People here take the truth fairly seriously, and you should be glad that there are so many people here attempting to correct/educate you. I am not going to call you ignorant, or even out of your element this go around, as I see that you take that extremely personally. Instead, I implore you listen to many of the level-headed individuals on here. As someone put it earlier, I would rather see all my brothers and sisters (no matter how much we differ) educated and on the same level as each other, that way we can proceed together to more pressing matters.

And as for the dude questioning my intelligence, you are correct, there are requirements for intelligence in the United States Army. I had to argue with the recruiters and brass just to get a combat MOS, as they kept trying to push me into strategic intelligence MOS'. There have been others on here, who are obviously much better acquainted with the Qur'an and Islam than myself calling you out as well. I guess we are all just idiots and we should listen to you instead.

Thanks for your time everyone, I really must jump off this thread now. I wish ALL of you well into the future, and I hope that one day we can all come to terms with the fact that A-holes come in many different colors, cultures and religions.

bismillah ar-rahman ar-raheem, one day the level-headed will rule, and on that day there will be peace. Insha'Allah.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by Shark VA84]



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:54 PM
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www.jihadwatch.org...


Pat Condell on Ground Zero mosque: "Is it possible to be astonished, but not surprised?"



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 



Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Watching you guys talk...honest question here. Do you think Muslims ever feel as if Christians are compelled to or are out to kill them too? The reason I ask is because I've seen that mentioned enough. When presidents and other leaders go around saying they're on a mission from god and happen to be Christian, what else would they think?


I do not see why they would think this, as there is no place in the New Testament that specifically states this about Muslims or anyone else for that matter.



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 



Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth

"laa ikraahu fiddeen".....There is no compulsion in religion....


Ok, I'll just tell you. First, it's not "laa ikraahu" it's "laa ikraaha". This actually means there cannot be any compulsion, at all, without exception--more extreme than simply saying "there's no compulsion"


I am not familiar with the nasb and rafa forms.



Then, you're not an "expert" on Quran, as you claim, and you don't understand it. Nasb and rafa are the 1st things you learn about Quranic Arabic if you study it.


I do not have to understand mumbo jumbo


That "mumbo jumbo" is the foundation of the Quran. If you don't understand it, you don't understand the Quran, or even Islam, at all.


to realize that Islam is a religion of submission and not a religion of peace.


Um, really? You just quoted the verse declaring "there's no compulsion, under any circumstances, in acceptance of religion." This seems quite peaceful to me--I don't know where it says anything about submission there.


But I am impressed with your knowledge


Thank you! You made my day :-)


of....???.... Not bad!


...of Quran.



If there is no compulsion in religion, then why are Muslims compelled to kill Christians and Jews


Muslims aren't compelled to kill Christians and Jew. If you're referring to the Quranic verses about fighting, they're talking about a specific context in which the Prophet and the Muslims were being abused and attacked by the disbelievers to the point that they were kicked out of their homes, so permission was granted to fight back against those who wronged them. If you're referring to something else, then I ask you, if Muslims were compelled to kill Christians and Jews, why is there now a Christian population living peacefully with Muslims in Egypt and why did the Jews welcome the Muslims into Jerusalem during the Crusades? Shouldn't they both have been living in fear or have been obliterated?



......And why are Muslims compelled to travel from Mecca to Medina?


Muslims aren't compelled to travel from Mecca to Medina. Don't know who told you that. One of the commandments of Islam is for muslims to travel to Mecca, not Mecca to Medina, if they can afford it. Also, a command is different from being compelled. No one is going out forcing Muslims to travel--they are told to by God in the Quran. They clearly have free will to follow or disobey.

Please stop being stupid. And have a nice day.



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by Shark VA84
reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 


I'm back in the thread, just for a quick second. "Mumbo Jumbo?"

Wow, do you even know why the Qur'an should NOT be translated to any language outside of its original? Do you understand anything besides what you type into Google to try and feed this transparent facade you are putting on?

And to the OP, it is obvious that you are either a young, naive child or have the mentality of one. Your responses are incoherent, indirect and just complain about pointless rambling. ATS is not a site for blogging or just throwing opinions out without purpose. People here take the truth fairly seriously, and you should be glad that there are so many people here attempting to correct/educate you. I am not going to call you ignorant, or even out of your element this go around, as I see that you take that extremely personally. Instead, I implore you listen to many of the level-headed individuals on here. As someone put it earlier, I would rather see all my brothers and sisters (no matter how much we differ) educated and on the same level as each other, that way we can proceed together to more pressing matters.

And as for the dude questioning my intelligence, you are correct, there are requirements for intelligence in the United States Army. I had to argue with the recruiters and brass just to get a combat MOS, as they kept trying to push me into strategic intelligence MOS'. There have been others on here, who are obviously much better acquainted with the Qur'an and Islam than myself calling you out as well. I guess we are all just idiots and we should listen to you instead.

Thanks for your time everyone, I really must jump off this thread now. I wish ALL of you well into the future, and I hope that one day we can all come to terms with the fact that A-holes come in many different colors, cultures and religions.






blanket assumptions of someone you know nothing about yet another one perched up on his stool looking down at others.


see this is the normal tactic of people who dont like what you have to say.
try looking into a mirror before making a-hole comments.


mods lock this thread the only one trying to have a serious conversation is lucidity

im done with it and i sorry i ever started it.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by neo96]



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


????

I don't look down on anyone, EVER. I have been ignorant on many occasions, but have generally conceded to people with more knowledge on a subject, instead of taking a defensive posture and trying to run from my own mistakes and/or loose tongue. Will you address me in an intelligent manner other than "I see you look down on others" or "stop insulting me" or any other cop-out than having an intelligent, mature conversation.

What you are doing is extremely childish in my eyes. There is no shame in opening up to others. IF you took the time to read and process what I have written, I implored you listen to OTHERS, not me. You don't even have the common decency to review the material presented to you, how can I expect to communicate with you effectively?

Don't listen to me dude, listen to the dozen+ others on this thread spreading knowledge and truth. Take care.



posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 



Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth

Do you really wish for God to destroy me because I do not adhere your specific beliefs about God?



Great job twisting words. And no, I never said that. The Quran isn't my words. God's talking about His own Curse. I don't really care what others believe so long as they don't bother me, but I pray that God guides you.

Now, if you think the Quran is cursing you, then let me tell you, you have a choice in life. If you choose to continue spreading and following others' lies without thinking, then maybe God will curse you. I don't know. Only God knows, and only He decides what He does.

Thanks for making your ignorance apparent. I'll be back later tonight if you want to continue.





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