A Challenge to 2012 Believers

reply to post by Xcalibur254

I have thrown done the gauntlet. Show me the evidence that originally turned you into a believer. I may be skeptic, but I am willing to change my mind if you can show me evidence that can be explained in no other way than a huge event occurring on the predicted date.

Precision of the Equinoxes. We are coming to the end of a very, very long cycle. This may or may not bring with is good or bad events. No one has any way of knowing.
While it may or may not be the end of the world, it is certainly the end of a world, or age. Only those who live life out of fear will be fearful of this.

I am aware that the moving from one age to the next has an estimated 30 ish year window, however if one had to choose a concrete date for this; December 2012 is a very good date, in my opinion, because the road to Xibalba will be paved. Translation: For the first time i believe since the dawn of the last age, from the perspective here on earth we will be at the exact center of the milky way.

I call this a pretty huge event.

reply to post by Bonified Ween


As of right now the solar maximum isn't supposed to peak until 2013, and present predictions put it as being relatively quiet compared to past maximums.

reply to post by blood0fheroes


First off the precession of the Equinoxes are measured on the Spring Equinox, not the Winter Solstice. Secondly, there is no indication that we are moving into a new age.Experts have chosen a wide range of dates, some of which have already occurred and others that won't happen for a long time.

Everyone knows the world isn't going to end in 2012.

Marty McFly has been to 2015.

Jesus.

reply to post by Xcalibur254

Not trying to be an ass about it, but if we are going to debate based on semantics, then yes as a matter of fact we are moving into a new age.....We are always moving into a new age.

Much the same as we begin dying on the day we are born.

Further, I would argue that there are no "experts" on the subject, as no one that I know of was alive 26,000 years ago.

[edit on 14-7-2010 by blood0fheroes]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
You can't prove a negative friend

.

I'm of the camp that something will occur in 2012, not a world cataclysm but perhaps a spiritual awakening of sorts.

I don't have any evidence, just my experiences during meditation and OOBE's.

~Keeper

i will agree with you. i believe the population will wake up in 2012. not a doomsday scenario but a change in how we relate to each other and the world around us and i also believe that they the et's will either make themselves known or just land ....................the evidence is everywere the haiti quake, the oil spill, mel gibson going nuts everything is leading towards an event one that will be talked about for another 2000 years.............

[edit on 14-7-2010 by gaurdian2012]

reply to post by blood0fheroes


The way what Age we are in is measured is based on what constellation the Sun is in at the Spring Equinox. Therefore, people who watch the sky can be considered experts. Specifically I'm referring to archaeoastronomers who study the sky in hopes of gaining greater knowledge about past civilizations. However, even astrologers who create their own charts could be considered experts.

I believe something is going to happen, and maybe not on the exact date, but something is going to happen that will change everything. Just look around you, look at how mother earth is being abused. Look at how she has been fighting back. Hurricane after hurricane in 2004 the tsunami at the end of 2004 and Katrina in 2005, The Earthquakes in 2008 and then the big one in 2009 that hit hati. The extreme wheather change.. I live in Tampa Florida and it was 65 degrees in the first week of April. I am 25 years old, and believe me our winters dont last that long, and its not as cold as other places like new york and main. But I remember being 13 years old and swimming in my pool and having a christmas bbq with the temp somewhere in the high 80's low 90's. And we always warm up by the middle to end of febuary. (Thats why we have spring break in daytona starting around Feb 15th.)


And the fact that I dont trust our government one bit! They hide everything, discredit people, erase peoples identies, stage "sucides" to whistle blowers, Im not so blind that I cant see, and Im not so numb that I cant feel what my own intuition is telling me, and not so dumb that I believe and trust in our government that is ruled by greed and corruption! We are the richest country in the world, even in todays economy!! Yet there is homeless people and starving children in our own damn back yard. There are sick people dying but they dont care because its not only a form of population control, but also because the sick cant work to produce more taxes for them to take, and its the sick that go with out healthcare for "PRE EXSISTING CONDITONS" when they are the ones that need it the most!

And is it me or is there more and more news of Mass UFO sightings in the last 4 years? The fact that more and more news stations are reporting on UFOs and the Vatican coming out telling people that its ok to believe in aliens, that it doesnt interfer with your perception on GOD is a big sign to me that there is something going on they do not want us to know. The fact that Obama's administration or TPTB behind the scenes has shut down NASA, is a big red flag to me. I believe in the ancient astronaut theory because to me it explains why the evolution theory doesnt work. If we evolved from monkies or apes...then why are there still monkies and apes? And if there were only two people on earth in the beging (Adam and Eve) Then wouldnt we all be of the same race? Wouldnt we all be mentally challenged due to years and years of incest? And it would explain imo the concept of the virgin mary.. She could of very well have been a virgin and could of been impregnated?..... So who knows whats going to happen, Solar stoms are said to happen from nasa scientist, maybe a pole shift from the galatic alignment?? OR alien visitation?? I guess we will all have to wait and see....

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Thanks for the clarification, I see where you were going with that now.

reply to post by StarrGazer25


Evolution makes perfect sense. Humans did not evolve from modern apes. Us and modern apes evolved from a common ancestor. However, due to different environments our evolutionary paths diverged. Evolution is not a straight shot but an evergrowing tree of branches and offshoots.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Nope! Sorry Dont buy it.......

reply to post by StarrGazer25


What's so hard to buy about a theory that has mountains of evidence supporting it and gets stronger everyday as more data is gained? That seems less believable than a theory that is based on mistranslations and misrepresentations created by people who don't even have a background in the languages they research?

Even if 2012 doesn't happen, humanity is on a self-destruct sequence and we will wipe each other out. I see no hope for the human race.

All we do is lie and cheat just to get to the top. Racism is getting worse. political correctness is getting worse. Economy is getting worse. Sexual deviants are on the rise.

Get the picture???????????

I don't buy into the whole 2012 doomsday thing.

My theory is this. If you know that every so many thousands of years the cycle in the heavens resets itself, why would you build two calendars? Why not simply reuse the same one over after it resets to zero?

We only have 12 hours on our watches, even though there are 24 hours in a day, because we know every 12 hours it resets. We simply just change the "AM" to "PM" then back to "AM" again and do the whole thing over again the next day.

A friend of mine is an astrologer - his take on the whole "2012 galactic alignment" is "what galactic alignment on Dec 21 2012?". He says that there is no such alignment due to take place - it's all a myth.

If I'm wrong, you can bertate me on here on Dec 22 2012. Oh, wait, if I'm wrong we won't have any power to run the internet anyway. You can send me a smoke signal.

I was expecting more of a response to this considering the vehemence displayed in other threads when people claim that nothing will happen in 2012. People get called such things as disinfo agents, government shills, and ignorant, yet now that I give them a chance to prove all of these dissenters wrong they're strangely quiet. Maybe if I give some reasons as to why I believe nothing will happen it will spark some debate.

First off is the date itself. The date December 21, 2012 became famous beginning in the mid-70s when New Age writers brought it to the attention of the masses. This date was based off the end of the Mayan calendar, however this is just one of many dates that was chosen as possible dates for the calendar's end. The main problem stems from the fact that this is just one of many calendars that have been found in Mayan ruins with some consisting of 20 baktun and some telling of events that will occur in thousands of years.

People claim that the 2012 belief is further supported by other cultures. As I stated previously in this thread I can find no link between Hopi prophecy and 2012, except on New Age websites. So if someone can provide me a literal translation of these prophecies where it flat out mentions December 21, 2012 I may begin to consider the possibility. From what I've read of Nostradamus, he predicted the end would come about in 1999. Someone made mention of an Egyptian prophecy, but have not provided it for me, so if anyone knows what he's talking about please post a link.

It seems like the biggest belief of what will happen in 2012 involves an astronomical catastrophe. One such claim is that the Earth will be passing through the galactic equator. Science however states that this is not true. Current studies place us having passed through the galactic plane 3 million years ago, which means it will be another 30 million before we pass through it again.
Our Galactic Plane

This brings us to Nibiru/Planet X. As most of you already know the belief in Nibiru as planet in our solar system with a highly elliptical orbit was created by Zechariah Sitchin, a man trained as an economic historian. Whether you believe Sitchin or not is outside the purview of this thread, what does matter is that Sitchin never stated Nibiru would return in 2012. This belief was spread by Nancy Lieder, founder of the website ZetaTalk. She claims to have a device implanted in her that allows the Greys to speak through her. So, in 1996/97 she claimed that the Hale-Bopp comet was not actually a comet but a distant star that TPTB were using to distract people from the impending approach of Nibiru. Once the comet passed and it was one of the brightest ever observed, Ms. Lieder removed the comments from her site claiming it was fake. Lieder then made the prediction that Nibiru would return in 2003, she even went so far as to tell people to have their pets put down claiming she had already done so. When the date passed, she claimed it had all been a lie to fool TPTB. This has since evolved into many taking her idea and claiming that Nibiru will return in 2012.

Another reason why this theory cannot be true is because the effects would start to be felt in the solar system. Most claims put this object as being several times larger than Earth. Based on the speed comparable planets move at, it would have to be in the solar system already and with its size, it would cause gravitational anomalies to be observed. However, no such anomalies have been noted by astronomers, amateur and professional alike.

This then brings us to the theory that mankind's consciousness will raise to a new level in 2012. However, I have yet to see anyone propose a mechanism through which this would work. Furthermore, all evidence points to consciousness as being an emergent property of the brain, not the manifestation of a disembodied mind. So, for consciousness to change there would have to be widespread, rapid evolution. Something which has never been observed and there is no proposed theory on how it would work, especially in already living organisms.

So, if anyone can provide compelling evidence to counter these points, please go ahead. I just want to state that I have no problem if you believe in 2012 due to meditation, as long as you're not trying to convert people. Meditation is a very personal thing and you cannot expect people to take it as evidence. This topic is for those people who have been swayed by New Age charlatans, who dismiss sound science as propaganda, and even when presented with indisputable facts they cling to their beliefs and belittle those who don't believe.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
I was expecting more of a response to this considering the vehemence displayed in other threads when people claim that nothing will happen in 2012. People get called such things as disinfo agents, government shills, and ignorant, yet now that I give them a chance to prove all of these dissenters wrong they're strangely quiet.

It's getting too close to the date, only 1.5 years away so people don't want to get burned by their statements.

Like I've previously stated, those who claim they believe in 2012/nibiru, really don't believe it, when it comes right down to it.

reply to post by jfj123


Actually the real date is Oct 28, 2011. But hey if it doesn't happen I won't be losing any sleep over it. I would just be ashamed that there would be no fireworks.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


some good information:
1. "2012 for Idiots" - not the dummies book, the other one.
2. The Terrance McKenna TimeWave Zero is based on 3000 year old tablets of "I ching"
3. The Web Bot project - based on human consciousness stream - why is there a gap during that time.
4. of course the Myan Calendar
5. We are going through the galactic center - as Physics graduate I agree with scientists that there would a large flow of high energy particles while we pass through this region of space
6. some of the Crop Circles may be real out of 10,000 of them. The one which indicates 2012 is very likely to be genuine based on Crop researchers
7. My gut feeling. I meditate and it feels right.

I love what you're trying to do Xcal, it makes perfect sense. If there is no evidence to support it, how can we even develop a theory.

But... It doesn't budge my current stance on it at all. Yep, I know, I'm crazy.

My most significant thing in the 2012 theory would currently be the death of Pope Benedict.

If that happens around mid 2011, I'll probably start talking to random people on the streets about what I call.

"Cyclical Destruction"

reply to post by dragnet53


Have you really checked out any of these claims? I doubt it. If you had you'd know that the highest crime rate in the US occurred back in the 1800s. There was a city you can find that had the highest murder rate ever in US history.

I think it may have been Socrates who commented thousands of years ago that civilization was falling apart, going to hell in a hand basket, the next generation was a failure, ...

So those that think they are saying something new or experiencing something new are a bit mistaken.