82 year old man faces 1st degree murder charges for defending his life and property.

82 year old man faces 1st degree murder charges for defending his life and property.

82-year-old Robert Wallace said in February that he looked out his window and saw two men hooking his flatbed trailer up to their pickup. He yelled at them to stop, but they sped away, stealing his trailer. He told police he fired two shots at the pickup.

The Jefferson County DA's office said that neither Torres nor Cardona have been charged with anything at this point, even though Torres confessed to the crime. However, the homeowner, Wallace is facing twelve felony counts, including four counts of attempted first degree murder. If convicted, he could spend the rest of his life behind bars.

This is CRAZY..how does this happen? I heard a news report and a lawyer said 'the chance of this guy being convicted of 1st degree murder is virtually null...but still to put this man through this for defending what is rightfully his is just insane. Not to mention that the 2 thieves are possibly illegals....insane times we are living in.

reply to post by Survivorman


Unbelievable !
Where did this happen ?
Here in Texas, he would be no-billed by a Grand Jury in a flash !
Remember Joe Horn ? He's the one who killed two burglars robbing his
neighbor's house in Baytown, TX. GJ No-billed him.
The burglars were illegal aliens (Surprise)
A lot of people wanted Mr. Horn crucified, but justice prevailed.

This story is messed up big time.

"how does this happen?" you say...

By living in good 'ole America unfortunately.

Our justice system is twisted and shoved up the backside which then comes out the mouths of our fellow politicians...you know, the ones who play solitare while voting on new budgets.



[edit on 8-7-2010 by Solofront]

This happens because the prosecutor's office and/or the law enforcement leadership wants to press charges.

Sadly, the gentleman unwittingly confessed to a crime. There is no way to dodge this legal bullet. If you fire a weapon at a person, the police can and usually will proceed according to the letter of the law.

In many small towns, and municipalities, (especially those in which a community spirit exists) prosecutors might opt (in accordance with their professional judgment) not to prosecute or charge a person.

Evidently, they want to bring this case to court.

It raises questions about whether you can rightly use lethal force to defend property, or should that be restricted to saving one's own life?

Then there are the technicalities of firing down a public fairway....

[edit on 8-7-2010 by Maxmars]

when the system starts protecting the criminals
instead of the victims, then it's time for a new system.

I hope a GJ will drop these charges
as it was ludicrous for them to begin with.

Just like the River Guide that saved a lil girl
from drowning was charged with obstruction
of a rescue operation. It's just stupid !!!!

Attempted 1st Degree Murder and another 10-11 felony counts? WTF?

I thought 1st Degree Murder was the premeditated, cold and calculated type of murder. How does one commit that in a few moments of shock-like trauma? So they try to pin 4 counts of that on the man because he fired 2x at 2 fleeing criminals? What are the other 7-8 counts they are charging him with?

The garbage that stole the trailer haven't been charged with anything even though admitting to the fact they stole it?

The jury better not be filled with friends and relatives of Torres and Cardona.

Is the DA playing to a certain demographic in hopes of re-election? That's the only way this makes sense.

Imagine if the guy killed was told to pick up the trailer by his boss. Now imagine it was you. This is why we have laws against shooting people.

No...imagine that your property was being stolen by thieves. Thieves who admitted to officers of the law/court that they STOLE it. That's why siding with the thieves is fail.


edit: If thieves were stealing from the property of an off-duty cop and he shot them both in the back, we'd see a headline of "brave police officer receives medal from mayor of Smalltown".
If on-duty cops shoot fleeing unarmed burglar or suspect, same thing.

[edit on 8-7-2010 by primus2012]

reply to post by Survivorman


Bogus... This man will walk if it goes to trial, he will totally walk. And then the DA will be looking for a new Job... Where can we send money for his Defense team?

Originally posted by earthdude
Imagine if the guy killed was told to pick up the trailer by his boss. Now imagine it was you. This is why we have laws against shooting people.

The Trailer was his dude, those slapnuts were stealing HIS trailor and then THEY TRIED TO RUN HIM DOWN... I would have shot those Illegal Bastards to... Free the old man jail the theives then Deport there asses.

This almost exact thing happened in the city I live in earlier this year.

A man looked outside, or heard noises that caught his attention. On looking outside he saw a man stealing his 4 wheeler and proceeded to shoot and kill the thief.

He is now being charged with murder.

I have to say I agree. Your personal property is not more valuable than someones life. And laws are put in place to keep this type of thing from happening, you can't shoot someone who is trespassing on your yard anymore than you can shoot someone for stealing your garden gnomes.

If a person is inside your house, you do have the right (to an extent) to shoot the person.

His life wasn't threatened and he has no right to murder someone over a trailer.

I can't believe people think its ok to murder someone over property loss, sure they should be punished. But not murdered.

Whats next? Killing a guy who stole your newspaper? Shooting kids taking shortcuts through your yard, cause they might steal your lawn jockey?

Link to earlier mentioned story...

Deputy prosecuting attorney Joe Graham says citizens can defend themselves inside their own home and on their property outside their home but they can't use deadly force solely in defense of property.

Pearcy homeowner shoots, kills robber

Pearcy man arrested for fatally shooting thief

In the end, this guy shot his friend over his four wheeler.

While I'm not defending the thief, its sad that material possessions are held to a higher value than life.

I hope everyone here who downloads illegal gets shot in the face by whoever owns the rights to what you download.

(not really, but hopefully you get my point)

Originally posted by Maxmars
This happens because the prosecutor's office and/or the law enforcement leadership wants to press charges.

Sadly, the gentleman unwittingly confessed to a crime. There is no way to dodge this legal bullet. If you fire a weapon at a person, the police can and usually will proceed according to the letter of the law.

In many small towns, and municipalities, (especially those in which a community spirit exists) prosecutors might opt (in accordance with their professional judgment) not to prosecute or charge a person.

Evidently, they want to bring this case to court.

It raises questions about whether you can rightly use lethal force to defend property, or should that be restricted to saving one's own life?

Then there are the technicalities of firing down a public fairway....

[edit on 8-7-2010 by Maxmars]

This is what I like about living in the South. In my state the courts ruled that the a vehicle is an extension of your home. So in this state if I walk outside and see someone breaking into my car, I have the legal right to shoot him dead if I am protecting my life or property.

reply to post by ThaLoccster


In the situation you are describing I agree it is murder. The shooter gave no chance to the thief to walk away with his life, he just shot him. Even in my state, that would be a murder a charge. It is one thing to protect yourself and your property, it is another thing to shoot first and ask questions later. Even in my state I would have to warn the thief to stop or I will shoot. I have to notify him that I am armed. If that thief were to continue, I can shoot. If the thief were to turn and run away, I can not shoot. If that thief were to come towards me, I can shoot. Even in the most gun loving states, there are guidelines and the main one is "imminent threat"

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
This almost exact thing happened in the city I live in earlier this year.

A man looked outside, or heard noises that caught his attention. On looking outside he saw a man stealing his 4 wheeler and proceeded to shoot and kill the thief.

He is now being charged with murder.

I have to say I agree. Your personal property is not more valuable than someones life. And laws are put in place to keep this type of thing from happening, you can't shoot someone who is trespassing on your yard anymore than you can shoot someone for stealing your garden gnomes.

If a person is inside your house, you do have the right (to an extent) to shoot the person.

His life wasn't threatened and he has no right to murder someone over a trailer.

I can't believe people think its ok to murder someone over property loss, sure they should be punished. But not murdered.

Whats next? Killing a guy who stole your newspaper? Shooting kids taking shortcuts through your yard, cause they might steal your lawn jockey?

Link to earlier mentioned story...

Deputy prosecuting attorney Joe Graham says citizens can defend themselves inside their own home and on their property outside their home but they can't use deadly force solely in defense of property.

Pearcy homeowner shoots, kills robber

Pearcy man arrested for fatally shooting thief

In the end, this guy shot his friend over his four wheeler.

While I'm not defending the thief, its sad that material possessions are held to a higher value than life.

I hope everyone here who downloads illegal gets shot in the face by whoever owns the rights to what you download.

(not really, but hopefully you get my point)

I am sorry but if someone chooses to be a thief, then they need to know that that is a life threatening career they have chosen. If they all knew that it is lawful to kill a thief, I think some if not most would choose a different job to make money at. Thereby saving their life. The laws are bull$%&* and you know it.

Give that old man a medal for not putting up with people's s%$&. It is a shame people want to bring up human rights in a situation like this. If this happened to me? The thieves would have a right. A right to remain silent....forever.

Yeah those repo guys are thevies alright.

AND he fired down a public street. How ignornant and careless is that?

Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by ThaLoccster

 

In the situation you are describing I agree it is murder. The shooter gave no chance to the thief to walk away with his life, he just shot him. Even in my state, that would be a murder a charge. It is one thing to protect yourself and your property, it is another thing to shoot first and ask questions later. Even in my state I would have to warn the thief to stop or I will shoot. I have to notify him that I am armed. If that thief were to continue, I can shoot. If the thief were to turn and run away, I can not shoot. If that thief were to come towards me, I can shoot. Even in the most gun loving states, there are guidelines and the main one is "imminent threat"

Why warn them. Did they send a telegram saying they are going to steal your stuff? I am sorry, but that is a load of crap. If people choose to put their lives on the line to be a criminal, then I say let em, but don't hold the person who took the criminals life accountable. The criminal is the one who decided the property was more valuable than his life when he decided to try and steal it.......Finale answer.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Yeah those repo guys are thevies alright.

AND he fired down a public street. How ignornant and careless is that?

Where did you read that they where repo guy?

I'm sorry, but did anybody else notice how much traffic there is on the street in front of that man's house?

Who knows, it might be that busy at all hours of the day and night. What if he had shot an innocent person passing by?

While he should feel a need to protect his property, shooting a gun outside is not the best idea in a busy neighborhood!

I don't think he should be charged with attempted murder, but for firing his weapon outside, down a street, yes, I do!


[edit on 8-7-2010 by Blanca Rose]

reply to post by Conclusion


And he is just as much a criminal for shooting them.

Disagree all you want, the law says you can not kill someone for stealing your trailer. You can't. It's a crime to kill someone for stealing.

So, in the end this man is just as much a criminal as the thieves. And he should be held accountable.

EDIT:

I like how you nitpick your interpretation of law, and say one crime is ok, while another isn't. And that stealing is more of a despised action, than murder.

[edit on 7/8/2010 by ThaLoccster]

Different states handle the SAME action in entirely different ways!!!

For instance, there are states where such a criminal can actually file a lawsuit for getting "injured" while being chased out of the victims home, without ANY type of assault or contact by the victim taking place. In various states the suspect filing such a lawsuit will WIN in court EASILY!!

In Southern states, Texas for certain, if you find a suspect in your home or vehicle without your knowledge or permission, you shoot them dead. The only attention you will receive is some simple questioning by law enforcement, and then after that, you are allowed to leave, and then be hailed a hero by anyone that hears about it.

Personally, I think that TEXAS, and similar states are CORRECT IN THIS ASPECT OF THE LAW. They are 100% correct, no, actually 1 MILLION PERCENT correct!!!!



[edit on 8-7-2010 by Baloney]