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82 year old man faces 1st degree murder charges for defending his life and property.

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posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by ThaLoccster
reply to post by Conclusion
 


And he is just as much a criminal for shooting them.

Disagree all you want, the law says you can not kill someone for stealing your trailer. You can't. It's a crime to kill someone for stealing.

So, in the end this man is just as much a criminal as the thieves. And he should be held accountable.

EDIT:

I like how you nitpick your interpretation of law, and say one crime is ok, while another isn't. And that stealing is more of a despised action, than murder.

[edit on 7/8/2010 by ThaLoccster]


LOL. Believe that all you want. We all here know that the law is messed up. You can let people steal all they want from you, and they will if they think you will just let them. As for my nitpicking of the law, the law doesn't mean $%&* to me. The law is meant to protect the criminals. I don't steal, kill, or hurt anyone. I let them be, but I will not allow anyone to do that me either. Call it what you want. Right is right and wrong is wrong. If someone chooses to steal, then that is the incident that started the whole situation. Problem solved. He will never steal again. You might say why not send him to jail. Well then he would be stealing from the tax payers and all that. He was caught red handed in the act. I am not saying be glad that someone is dead now, but to even consider that the true victim (the old man) should be held responsible for whatever outcome is what is wrong with this country.




posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:11 PM
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I just think it's crazy that we have WARN the criminals before we defend our lives and property. These scum not only tried to steal his trailer, they tried to RUN HIM OVER. In my opinion, his life was threatened and he had every right to do what he did.

"Hey look there is a guy outside breaking into my car..."

Open door...

"Um..Mr Criminal, could you please stop breaking into my car... No? (BANG BANG)

[now slumped on my door bleeding from the criminals gun shots...] Um..ok, Well Mr. Criminal, I have a gun, and if you don't stop, I'm going to have to shoot you....(BANG BANG)...."No? Um ok, well...

When the hell did we start catering to criminals? Why do the criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens do? So I'm just supposed to stand by, watch someone steal my stuff, that I worked hard to pay for? I'm supposed to just let them walk away with my blood, sweat and tears and say, oh well, I guess he needs it more than me?

How is it that some scum can break into my house, take my stuff and threaten me..and if I shoot him, he can sue me and be on disability because he can't work anymore.....really....REALLY? What are we coming to?

When did we all become a bunch of 'felines'?

We need to start treating the criminals like exactly what they are.....criminals!

I commend this man for standing up and doing what's right, he should be applauded.

Edit: Removed 'yelling'. I apologize for yelling it's just that stuff like this really gets under my skin!

[edit on 8-7-2010 by Survivorman]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:22 PM
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I don't know how an ELDERLY legal and lifelong tax-paying citizen, under emotional duress, who was forthright with law enforcement after-the-fact of his property being stolen and shooting, can be called "just as much a criminal" as the thieves. Makes me sick to stomach to read that.

From the OP's linked news story that the bleeding-hearts will all ignore:

Sources say Torres and Cardona are believed to be in the country illegally and both have an arrest record. Cardona's record includes public fighting and numerous traffic offenses like driving without a license or insurance. Torres's record includes agricultural trespassing as well as a 2005 arrest for aggravated motor vehicle theft for which he was given a plea bargain to a lesser crime. Sources say Torres is also under investigation for being part of a major auto theft ring.


Criminals-by-trade and illegal aliens to boot. The law failed the old man in more ways than one if these douches are still in-country plying their trades.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by ThaLoccster
I just have one question then.

Is it ok to murder people who illegally download movies, games and music. Thats clearly theft, and illegal. Is it ok to murder someone over a song?


Only if it is the original recording artist who does it. lol. That is a good question. I would say no.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by ThaLoccster
 


Thats really reaching. They tried to run him over. Perhaps he was protecting his own life?

I still don't see where the 4 charges of attempted 1st degree murder come from. Its just disgusting that repeat offender criminals, who are probably in this country illegally are out free, when they ADMITTED to stealing his property. And this guy is facing charges. Thats America for you.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by ThaLoccster
I just have one question then.

Is it ok to murder people who illegally download movies, games and music. Thats clearly theft, and illegal. Is it ok to murder someone over a song?


I would say that is not even an almost analogy.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by DerekJR321


Thats really reaching. They tried to run him over. Perhaps he was protecting his own life?


Well, ya know, he probably got right in front of their vehicle to stop them. I highly doubt they tried to go out of their way to run him over, while pulling a trailer.

The guy was 82, not that he could have stopped them by getting in front of their getaway vehicle, so, instead he brings a gun.

Like somebody else pointed out, is a freaking trailer worth your life? I'd be highly upset with my 82 year old father for trying to get in the way, or, shoot at them! Especially in a busy neighborhood. More than the guy that got shot, could have been hurt, including the old man!

While it's sad this happened to the old man, I don't agree with an old fart running around in the street with a gun, either!



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 





Like somebody else pointed out, is a freaking trailer worth your life?


Obvious the criminal thought it was.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


He told them to stop and they knew it was illegal and I don't blame him one bit for shooting at them I, would shoot someone too if they were stealing my property or trying to break into my house. Theres already one in the chamber.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:06 PM
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I thought this was in the UK when I first spotted the thread title on the home page. Regular occurence here I'm afraid only no guns involved. You have to use 'appropriate force' that means trying to restrain a burgular in your home at night using an 'appropriate' weapon. You of course having been woke up during the night are generally disorientated and have no idea whether or not the assailant has a knife or God forbid a gun. Better to buy some insurance, stay in bed and let it get knicked. At least you won't go to jail for that.

Makes me very angry my opinion of America was that you could do exactly what this man did without even having to worry about legal repurcussions.

You can talk all day about guns being bad and you should never kill someone, but this guy would never have got the police to help him effectively to search for his stolen belongings I'm fairly sure the old man Wallace would rather have not killed anyone.

Time to watch Gran Torino again me thinks.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by Conclusion

Obvious the criminal thought it was.


Yep, and he had no business stepping in front of them when they were trying to leave!



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:18 PM
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This is how useful the law is ....

see front of trailer ...

kinda reminds me of your economy .

....hijacked by thieves in ties,

who are then then given a reward by the unsuspecting taxpayers !


Or the case of a sociopathic , megalow executive with NO morals ,

who hijacked a street kid for 42 mill . Exec then given an honorary law

degree .... and your top job!!!!!!!!!!!


Streetkid will eventually win that struggle



[edit on 8-7-2010 by radarloveguy]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by radarloveguy
 


Someone needs to let that donkey go!


In response to an earlier poster he shouted out the window for them to stop and they didn't, they probably didn't hear him though they were too busy stealing stuff.
As for discharging a weapon in a public area, yes I agree a bad call, however I am no ballistics expert and neither are you. There is not enough information about the tragetory of shots fired, the amount of people present at the time, and how close he was to the vehicle, also how close they were to running him down.

What I will say about that is due to momentum, even at 15-20mph a large pickup with a trailer could easily kill an old man due to the force of the weight. But again there is not enough info to come to a definite conclusion.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:29 PM
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I'm hella for guns and gun lovin'. I'm permitted to carry in several states and do so in near perpetuity.

But firing at a vehicle driving off? Come on. This isnt the movies.

The cops cant do a damn thing to prevent crime. That's your job. But once the crime has been committed it becomes there job.

These cartoonish charges are definitely over the top and shoul dbe dismissed immediately however. Maybe slap the guy with unlawful discharge and a fine. Attempted murder? That's just as stupid as firing at a fleeing vehicle.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by Blanca Rose

Originally posted by Conclusion

Obvious the criminal thought it was.


Yep, and he had no business stepping in front of them when they were trying to leave!


Well maybe he was just going to tell them to watch out for pot-holes because one of the wheels only had 1 lug-nut left, and he was shooting at them to get their attention so he could give them the current registration tabs and some money from his wallet.

You're trying to condemn this man's actions? This was an elderly man for starters, and a frightening, emotionally charging, unexpected, irrational, freaky situation as well. State-of-mind needs to be considered heavily here before stating what this guy should or should not have done.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by Blanca Rose

Originally posted by Conclusion

Obvious the criminal thought it was.


Yep, and he had no business stepping in front of them when they were trying to leave!


LOL. So which is it? He should not have stopped them without force, or with force?

Look I know you want to hold life to the up most regards and that is awesome, but they got what they deserved. If no type of crime existed then no one would be in this situation. It is the thieves fault.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by primus2012
 


LMAO.......Man I thought I was good at sarcasm.

I couldn't have said it better.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


Who's to decide what is worth your life? Maybe that trailer was part of his livelihood. Maybe he needed HIS property. Its the "roll over and play dead" mentality towards criminals that only perpetuates crime.

Maybe these thief's won't be so quick to steal now that one of em got a slug in the face.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by DerekJR321

Who's to decide what is worth your life?



Once a thief has decided to steal a thing from another human being that thief has decided that the thing in question is worth his life by taking the risk of being met with deadly force.

Trouble is thieves are terribly bright. Rats and dogs learn a lot quicker than the typical street crook.





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