82 year old man faces 1st degree murder charges for defending his life and property.

The use of lethal force requires a direct threat to your life or someone around you. Stealing your truck doesn't fall under either. He wasn't even firing at someone in his house - lord knows who he could have hit.

He deserves whatever is coming to him.

Originally posted by Solofront
This story is messed up big time.

"how does this happen?" you say...

By living in good 'ole America unfortunately.

Our justice system is twisted and shoved up the backside which then comes out the mouths of our fellow politicians...you know, the ones who play solitare while voting on new budgets.

[edit on 8-7-2010 by Solofront]

Yes, god forbid we live in a country where Justice is blind.

A Country who feels that the law is the law no matter how old you are.

A country that believes, that trying to shoot somebody in the back in

retaliation rather than defense is a crime.

I laugh at people like you..Incapable of having an impartial mind...and

screaming at America when you don't get your way. Just remember, you

know you are wrong when the only laws you agree with...are the ones that

benefit only you.

reply to post by Survivorman

I can't believe that nobody has posted legalities of defending personal property with lethal force. The fact is you cannot, if the story is correct it doesn't sound like they posed any deadly threat to the man. Therefore you cannot kill some from stealing from you. If your life or your family life is at risk by all means fire away. So if you wake up in the middle of the night a find someone trying to steal your car out in your drive way and blow them away prepare to go to jail for a long time. GUN OWNERS KNOW THE LAW. SO SOMETHING LIKE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN. AND TARNISH THE IMAGE OF RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS.

Sources say Torres and Cardona are believed to be in the country illegally and both have an arrest record. Cardona's record includes public fighting and numerous traffic offenses like driving without a license or insurance. Torres's record includes agricultural trespassing as well as a 2005 arrest for aggravated motor vehicle theft for which he was given a plea bargain to a lesser crime. Sources say Torres is also under investigation for being part of a major auto theft ring.

The biggest question i have is why these to were still in the US.

The law should be one strike and you are out.(deported).

If this was done the shooting would never have happened.
Its very likely by the records that they came to the US to for the purpose of committing crimes.

About 20+% of the illegals are in the country for the sole purpose of committing crimes not getting jobs though some do. and do crimes at the same time.
Most illegals doing drug sales don't mind getting caught.
They have sent there money back to Mexico so the cops can not get it and they do a short jail term and go back to Mexico and there money. And the US government pays for the trip back to Mexico.

Just charge the guy with being a poor shot. Thats where people mess up. If you are shooting at someone admidittingly, there should at least be a body. Give the guy a reckless discharge ticket and forget about it.

Or we could charge the guy with failure to properly secure personal property. Im sure there are some other random safety violations we could find around his house. Hell man lets just open up an investigation on this guy. He could be into the IRS for a few bucks or even worse...

He should also be charged with a human rights violation against the 'thieves'.


[edit on 8-7-2010 by psyko45]

Honestly I wouldnt be surprised if they put this 82 year old man behind bars for the rest of his life. Nothing done or said in this country surprises me anymore.

reply to post by Survivorman


This is why Governors have the right to Pardon. To fix the times when the law simply does not fit.

Shooting at someone who's stealing your trailer isn't self-defense!! Doesn't matter how old he is, he shot someone for theft...which just doesn't sound appropriate. I mean, who of you wants to introduce the death penalty for theft???

I don't care how old he is, he murdered someone and should be held accountable. Just goes to show that some people should be prevented from having guns...especially if they can't even realize when a situation is self-defense and when not.

How does this happen, you say?

Welcome to Amerika, where good is bad, up is down and left is right!

How do you fix a nation so obviously screwed up as ours? It can"t be fixed. We, as a nation are reaping what we have sewn by way of:

Starting wars, killing millions for no good reason.
OK'ing perversion as an "alternate life style".
Killing 1.5 million innocent babies each year for the last 35 years.
Rejecting prayer in public schools, and any mention of God in public places.
I could go on...you get the picture.

You pay for your sins as a nation as well as personally...God save us.


[edit on 8-7-2010 by romanmel]

(parody)

BREAKING NEWS: 90 year old man indicted for murder for defending
his property.

7/8/2010

Ben Dover, a 90 year old man faces charges of murder after successfully
defending his property against thieves. Sunday night, reports say, Dover
was in his bathroom when he observed a man stealing a peach from his
prized peach tree. Dover yelled at the man to stop. When the man
refused the order and began running away with the peach, Dover fired
once, striking the man in the throat. Oddly enough, the man had begun
eating the peach prior to the fatal shot, and not only did Dover
succeed in killing the man, he also succeeded in stopping him from
ingesting the prized fruit.
-------------------------

Okay, maybe not funny...but the point is, we don't shoot horse thieves
anymore. The line has to be drawn somewhere...and stealing a trailer
from private property is not important enough to kill. In Texas we once
again have a law in place that allows deadly force if someone is actually
IN YOUR HOME. Considering the implications of a B@E while the
homeowner is present...I think the law is getting it right in both
instances here...

[edit on 8-7-2010 by rival]

Originally posted by Baloney

In Southern states, Texas for certain, if you find a suspect in your home or vehicle without your knowledge or permission, you shoot them dead. The only attention you will receive is some simple questioning by law enforcement, and then after that, you are allowed to leave, and then be hailed a hero by anyone that hears about it.

Yes, TEXAS is not a state friendly to thieves and thieves beware in TEXAS.

Everyone down here in TEXAS is armed to the teeth. This I know for a fact growing up here. A thief is either very, very desperate or very, very crazy to try and go into houses in this state. In fact, I seldom if ever read about house burglaries here. Businesses do get robbed but house robberies are vastly miniscule in comparison.

As a side note, the cops would have taken this old man to jail for questioning down here in TEXAS. But only to find out where they too could find such a sure shoot rifle as he possessed.

I live in the county where this is happening. So far only one of the conservative radio talk shows is bringing any attention to this. The way things go around in this state is this is setting up for the theives to file a civil lawsuit against the old man. He does own quite a bit of property & is worth a little more than chump change. One of the theives was wounded and is now in a wheel chair due to spinal damage from the gun shot. The old man didn't even think he hit the truck. You can read the arrest affdivadid here:

www.khow.com...

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


you don't know they were illegals. There's not a whole of detail on just what did happen and local reports on these types of things often get details wrong. For that matter so does major mainstream media. you have the right to defend your home and also the right to defend property, but you do not have the right to shoot anybody on your property outside your home except in a direct act of self-defense to protect your life or the lives of your family.

It doesn't matter what the people's immigration status is. Crime happens and a lot less by so called "illegals", than by good old american criminals.
Take a pause and see what comes down on these as it develops. We don't have the whole story.

Originally posted by atlguy
The use of lethal force requires a direct threat to your life or someone around you. Stealing your truck doesn't fall under either. He wasn't even firing at someone in his house - lord knows who he could have hit.

He deserves whatever is coming to him.

so he's just supposed to let them steal his truck?

come on . . .

need to get rid of this legal system, it's ridiculously lopsided.

icing on the cake is these thieves were likely illegally in this country.

they are CRIMINALS and nothing is happening to them. Explain that.

Originally posted by atlguy
The use of lethal force requires a direct threat to your life or someone around you. Stealing your truck doesn't fall under either. He wasn't even firing at someone in his house - lord knows who he could have hit.

He deserves whatever is coming to him.

I guess that's a matter of opinion. In my opinion, once you enter someones private property in the commission of a crime, you forfeit all rights and should be at the mercy of the home owner (or business owner) .. If I see someone stealing my car, I should have every right to defend my personal property and use whatever method I deem necessary to stop the crime. I don't in such an instance I would actually fire my gun (bullet holes, broken glass, blood.. why, my car would be ruined!) But still, if that man personally felt it necessary, then so be it.. it was his property.

Hate to say it, But only in America...

But come on... He had to do something... Good on him... At that age, what does he have to lose... FIRE AWAY MATE...

Originally posted by JPhish


so he's just supposed to let them steal his truck?

Did you read the article? It was a flatbed trailer. Should he let them steal it? NO! He should have been calling the cops, instead of getting in front of them, and shooting a gun in a busy neighborhood.

reply to post by Survivorman


This is becoming the norm.

I wish I could find a link on the internet to show you something. But I haven't found it, yet.

A few years ago, here in central Kentucky, a woman, a one time beauty queen contestant, and I recall, she did win the Miss Kentucky contest, maybe more than that, and she is, or was, maybe dead now, very old.
And thieves came onto her property and were trying to steal some metals and a trailer from her. She got out her gun, yay, women with guns!, and she ordered them to stop what they were doing. They did not stop. So she fired a shot from her rifle. And the pukes stopped. She held them at gunpoint and called the sheriff who arrested them.

And these clowns tried to file suit against this old lady for shooting at them. They claimed she was dangerous, and she could have shot them. Well, the old gal said, if I had wanted to shoot one of them, I would have. But I didn't. I am that good with this old rifle.

And, by the way, the sheriff watched the lady shoot at targets, and he was a great witness in court. He said, she can hit whatever she wants to hit, and if she had wanted to hit one of these criminals, she surely would have hit him. She chose NOT to hit one of them, and that is why they are alive today, to file a complaint against her.

By the way, these two thieves lost the case. The woman was within her rights to protect her property from people who had no right to try to take it. And these clowns spent a bit of time in an incarceration facility.

I doubt they pick on this old woman again. And I hope they realize what they did was definitely outside the boundaries of society, and don't do such things again.

To everyone saying that this man had no right to shoot people that were just stealing his trailer, please read the article!

This man did everything right....

1) He went outside and confronted them. He asked them to stop.
2) They did not stop, and infact continued to steal his property.
3) They then tried to RUN HIM OVER with their truck.

....The thieves tried to run him over with their truck. The THIEVES tried to RUN HIM OVER with their TRUCK!

If someone tries to run me down with a vehicle, I sure as hell will think my life is in danger and use any means necessary to save it.

How can anyone think that trying to run someone down with a vehicle is not a direct attack on their life????

As for calling the cops...good luck with that one. By the times the cops would have gotten there, that trailer would have been long gone, probably in some garage, getting cut up, or repainted, and stripped of all serial numbers.

Oh and let's not forget that the Supreme Court ruled a few years back that the Police DO NOT have a Constitutional duty to protect you.

www.disinfo.com...

“In its landmark decision of DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services,” Stevens writes, “the U.S. Supreme Court declared that the Constitution does not impose a duty on the state and local governments to protect the citizens from criminal harm.

reply to post by Blanca Rose


"911 what's your emergency"
"Two guys are stealing my flatbed trailer!"
"I'll send an officer as soon as possible!"

Operator then clicks the tab "priority" selects "low priority" and issues the call

45 minutes later (if he's lucky) an officer will take the description .. uh huh .. two Mexican fellas, ok .. uh huh .. sure.. ok .. you're 81 of course you couldn't read the license, uh huh, ok..

Officer would then advise that man he better buy a new trailer.