2012: What do YOU think will happen?

reply to post by moosevernel


I am not espousing an unsubstantiated opinion. I have shown 2 ways that we can be 100% sure that there are no unknown planets that can have orbits that enter the orbits of the known planets. Not opinion. It's fact.

In fact, the constraints place the closest possibility more than twice the distance to Neptune. The Pan-STARRS project pushes that back to 11x the distance to Neptune.

What is missing here is your understanding of how constraints make it 100% impossible. Just because you do not understand how these constraints make it impossible does not change the fact that it is 100% impossible.

reply to post by stereologist


Well according to these articles on NASA's website they are both classified as a dwarf planets which by my understanding is still a planet. The fact that it resides in the kuiper belt does not mean that I contradict myself.

www.nasa.gov...
www.nasa.gov...


Get off your high horse and stuff it. Unless you can prove an article is wrong which STATES Eris is a dwarf planet that resides in the kuiper belt by one of the leading organizations in astronomy then KMA.

Besides everyone here is in agreement that this topic was supposed to be hypothetical and don't care about the impossible vs possible except for you. I'm not saying you can't post your opinion but post your opinion about what YOU THINK is GOING to happen and stop trying to prove other people wrong on something you can't prove will or will not happen. You haven't provided one iota of proof such as articles to prove or dsiprove your theories of why people are wrong. All you've done is spout out the mouth false information that you BELIEVE to be truth. Science doesn't know everything and we are constantly discovering things that were previously impossible to be possible.

Sorry Nicolee123nd I'm sure you didn't mean for this thread to get beyond what it was originally meant but Stereologist is just being belligerent at best. Anything to spark a reaction regardless of whether his "proof" is nowhere to be seen.

reply to post by stereologist


Stereo you're not offering proof. Your just spouting off stuff that we're supposed to accept as fact.

Provide references to your rhetoric or shut up. If you can't provide a link to a source that shows some sort of evidence then don't say anything. Provide some proof to this. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have to do the same but know your role in threads. This thread was made to be hypothetical at best. You're just being argumentative for the sake of arguing.

eh

reply to post by Stryker Ops


They are not planets. They are dwarf planets just as Pluto is a dwarf planet and not a planet.

Articles need to be taken in their context. In article 1 you have a discussion before Pluto was reclassified. That is the context of the article. In article 2 we read that Pluto has been reclassified. There are now 8 planets.

Unless you can prove an article is wrong which STATES Eris is a dwarf planet that resides in the kuiper belt by one of the leading organizations in astronomy then KMA.

Pretty sleazy mouth you have there sonny.

That appears to be a pointless straw man argument you've made up.

The issue is that Eris does not enter the orbits of the known planets even though it is not planet sized.
Eris orbit

You make kiss your own nether regions.

If you want to read about constraints, both gravitational and whole sky survey check out this paper.
PROJECT PAN-STARRS AND THE OUTER SOLAR SYSTEM

You are not in charge of threads, even the ones you start. The moderators are in charge of all threads. If you think otherwise you better reread the agreement you agreed to with ATS.

As I stated it is impossible for any unknown planet to enter the orbits of the known planets. The articles you linked to refer to 2 non-planets and one of those does not enter the orbits of the known planets.

reply to post by Stryker Ops


I guess comprehension is not your forte. I'll attempt to simplify my position.

There are speculative issues that are simply speculative issues. There are also demonstrably false issues that can be identified as such.

Unknown planets entering the orbits of the known planets is demonstrably impossible.
Rapid pole shifts, ECDs, or whatever people want to call them are demonstrably impossible.
Global floods are impossible.

Speculative issues that are possible might include
Acts of terrorism
Nuclear exchanges
Pandemics

I'll point out the impossible if you like it or not. It is not problem that you are a hot head. Get counseling, count to ten, or do whatever it takes to get control.

2012 : The End or A New Beginning or Both at the same time ?

Let's say that the Mutiverse theory is correct and there are an Infinite amount of Universes.
Let's also say that once in a while a doorway (not physical mind you) opens up into the Multiverse.
Sometimes said doorway opens up a little bit, sometimes it opens up a lot.
Every time it opens however a new idea, way of thinking, change, view, etc, happens to us & to here.
When it opens just a little bit we get new inventions, new idea, new science, that our brains latch onto.
When it opens a lot we get large changes, a shift in paradigms, World changes, Ice Ages, etc.

Okay, with me so far ?

Let's say for the sake of argument, that at 11:11am on Dec, 21, 2012 this multidimensional doorway opens real wide exposing us to the multiverse, every possible reality comes flooding into our own, what would this look like from our point of view ?

Well, I think it depends on what you believe.

Let's say your neighbor to your left, let's call him Bob, thinks that Heck On Earth is what will happen on this day, that's what will happen, to HIM, but not to you, in fact you'll look over at him standing in his front yard acting like he's on fire, yet you don't see it because you don't believe in that situation happening.

Then there's your neighbor to your right, let's call him Bill, thinks that Heaven On Earth is what will happen on this day, again this will happen, to HIM, but not to you, you'll look at him standing in his yard looking like he's a total peace and worshiping to something from your point of view isn't there, it is for him, you just can't see it, again for the same reason.

Now could it be TPTB want to go into hiding in some deep underground base because of this kind of Insanity happening topside where multiple realities all flooding into our own, where they'll be safe among like-minded types who all believe the same thing that once this event is over they will emerge deep from their hideaway and everyone else would be gone, at least gone from this reality & into whatever one they personally believe in.

Do I have proof of any of this ? Nope, not a one, it's all a theory, and only just that.

What of Niburu, well, what if that planet is in GASP, another reality ? Could you see it in ours ? Not if my theory is correct, you wouldn't see this other reality unless 1. You believe in it. 2. Not until the date in question.
Pole Shift, same thing. Ascension, ditto. Heck pretty much every thing anyone and everyone believes that will happen on "The Magic Date" but like I said it will only happen to them, not to you, if you don't believe any of it.
If you believe it'll be a day just like any other day, then well, that's what will happen to you.

However, if people start vanishing due to their personal beliefs as they enter these "Other Realities" while the doorway is still open, it'll be when your not paying attention, like how your keys go missing for awhile. Hey wasn't Bob just there a moment ago, perhaps he just went inside, you'll brush it off, you know you will. The rational mind can't deal with stuff like this, quantum realities are too new a thing to wrap ones head around.

Sure the math is there and all like that, but what would it be like to actually witness it first hand ? You might think your going mad if your open to EVERY possible reality that might be out there. I know I believe in this stuff already being a follower of Sci-Fi & Fantasy that I am I'm open to all kinds of possible realities, good thing I have ADD to deal with the madness that I'm sure to see when I'm walking around on that day.

I'll walk by Bill's yard & see what he's seeing, then walk by your yard see a normal typical day there, then walk by Bob's yard and see what he's seeing, and so forth and so on, on my walk around the block just to see what others are seeing, if they see me walking by I might wave to them or something, give them a sign, say something, who knows, I just won't be scared of it or go off the deep end as I believe in this quantum reality weirdness and can except it as a normal part of the multiverse as a whole.

Perhaps this is how 2/3rds of the population goes away without any warning, war, plague, whatever have you that folks think will happen on "The Magic Date" they just enter their own personal belief other reality. This might be why TPTB want so many to believe in ONE thing happening on "The Magic Date" to lesson the amount of realities flooding into our own, however as we draw closer to the date that plan seems to have failed big time.

Just look at this area of ATS alone, there are what, a least several theories regarding "The Magic Date" itself, now there's no way all these thing can happen at once, unless you take quantum realities into it, then yes all these things can happen on the same date, but only to the ones that believe that's what will happen. If you suddenly believed that you'd be taking to OZ in a tornado, well, that's what would happen to you and you alone.

In other words be careful what you wish for, you just might just get it on "The Magic Date"

So how long will this doorway to the multiverse be open you might ask me. Trouble is, I don't know, as it's only a theory after all, a second, a minute, a hour, a day, a week, a month, a year, what would it matter unless you believed in something so badly that would put you into another reality no matter how long this event happens.

Let's say it lasts 3 days, hum, 3 days of darkness, anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller ?
Let's say it happened before a long time ago and it caused the end of Atlantis & Lamuria.
Let's say the Ego can't stop this event from happening no matter how self centered it thinks it is.
Let's say this event is all about the Id being let loose on the face of the Earth, how do you face, yourself of all things ? What you truly believe deep down inside that you won't admit even to yourself ?
Let's say that the reason so many from the past warned us about this time as last time it happened it was the end of their way of life from the craziness that happened last time this happened, it would also be why they told of different events happening last time as their belief systems were different from our own modern ones.
Let's say I'm wrong, okay, I'm wrong, and nothing will happen at all, however, how would we know ?
The very nature of quantum realities won't provide us with any "Hard Evidence" that they are there after all, will they ? It's not like we can see into them currently with the tech we have right now, can we ? So how is this theory any different then any other about 2012 ?

Don't ask me, it's just a theory, I can't prove or disprove it, at the same time, durn quantum mechanics.

The point is, is that it allows for everything and nothing to happen at the same time, blame Shrodinger & his gosh durn cat for this idea I have, it's all his fault I got this theory in my head in the first place.

- W -
* The cat might be alive, The cat might be dead, But in the quantum world, It is both at the same time *

P.S. For all I know, I might end up in some quantum reality that's a mix of all the others, durn ADD.

reply to post by stereologist


Although a dwarf planet comes in between a planet and a celestial object it is still a planet regardless.

I never said I was in charge of them I just offered a point that the person who did start the thread meant it as a hypothetical or possibly to gain other peoples opinions. You are the one that attacked almost every single persons idea with information that had no references. Only this last post did you offer references and in one of those references you agreed with my statement. I'm not saying whether there are 8, 9 or 10 planets. You stated that there were no new planets beyond Pluto ( a little continuity error in your argument I might add)(page 6 at 10:19) and I was stating that if you were considering Pluto to be a planet then Eris and about 3 others are as well BEYOND PLUTO.
My point was to make you provide references if you were going to attack posters in this thread which is also in the T&C's. If you wish to engage in this superfluous argument then fine but find a small child to pick on because that's about the only person on this planet who won't see through your arrogance.

reply to post by Woulfe


That's a fun idea to toy with for sure.

Remember that QM effects are not seen in macroscopic objects because the wave length of the objects is too big. In simple words, forget the quantum stuff - it ain't happening.

So if people see or experience different things, is it possible to determine that is the case? it seems to me that Bill and Bob are going to have an interesting conversation as they attempt to reconcile their different experiences. It might sound a bit like an old beer commercial, "great taste", "less filling".

Is there any evidence that people can create their own reality by thinking? That was the claim of Castenanda?

reply to post by stereologist


You know that the QM stuff won't happen, because like I said, it's a doorway, that currently is closed, did you just skim through all my post, I bet you did, I made a point at the start of my theory that this inter-dimensional doorway only opens once in a great while fully, other times it's open a crack, this is why all the left socks vanish you know ;-) Wonder why just the left socks vanish, why not the right, is there a reality were there's one legged pirates that all need left socks as that's the leg that isn't a peg-leg ?
It's also why you think you left the keys on the table, yet they weren't there when you looked, you then search the entire house, then suddenly the keys are right where you thought left them on the table again. Call it serendipity, call it gnomes playing with you by hiding your keys in a pocket universe then putting them back for a laugh.
Point is that I said at the start of my Theory is it's a doorway, a doorway has a door, right, the door isn't open 24/7/365.249999999999999999999999999999999999999999 etc. Currently, it might be open a crack, as that would be why QM is being talked about by "serious" science, who not to long ago called it "junk" science. We also don't know EVERYTHING about QM so how do measure for it on the large scale in the first place ?
What little we know about QM is so far outside "The Box" that there seems to be no box, and at the same time there is a box, what do we do with the cat, do we put it in the box or outside of it, or is there a box in the first place, heck is there a cat in the first place ?
Now don't go saying we do know EVERYTHING about QM, that's just as bad as saying we know EVERYTHING about the universe, yet we continue to make new discoveries about the universe that makes us change the old science to fit the new science that seems to happen every day as we discover more out there.
Flat Earth, Round Earth, Center of Universe, Not center of Universe, Man can not fly, Airplane, Man can not go to the moon, Apollo, Well, unless your one of those that say we didn't go there in the first place, but that's a different matter, point is we can't rule anything out just because we haven't seen it or discovered it, YET.
If science is to progress we can't close our minds to the "Possibilities" of the "Impossible" if we do we might as well go back to the stone age and never invent the wheel in the first place to get us going to where we are now.
Wonder what that reality would be like ? We can imagine it, yes ? Can we imagine something that isn't here in this reality ? Sure, we do it all the time. Where do ideas come from ? Where do thoughts come from ? Where do dreams come from ? Where does imagination come from ? Why not from another reality where these things already are there ? Most importantly, why do I have more right socks then left socks & have to buy more pairs of them ? Darn gnomes, or right foot only peg-leg pirates ? Now, I can't find my keys, I left them right there....

- W -
* There are more things in Heaven & Earth then are dreamed up in your philosophy - William Shakespeare *

P.S. Hum, my keys were right where I left them after turning the apartment upside down, who knew ?

reply to post by stereologist


ha bro i did say brown dwarf star an i did read that it enters threw this solar system every 3500 years and at the end i did say its just my thout. DONT STRESS MATE

reply to post by Woulfe

as that would be why QM is being talked about by "serious" science, who not to long ago called it "junk" science.

That's simply not true.

that's just as bad as saying we know EVERYTHING about the universe

I've never said such a thing. That's a rather silly strawman argument.

point is we can't rule anything out just because we haven't seen it or discovered it

Yes we can rule out things. We do it all of the time. None of the examples you gave support the notion you claim. The first people that figured out the Earth was round did not travel around the world or even that far to determine that the Earth was round. The person that demonstrated that the Earth was not at the center of the universe did not leave his town to do that.

If science is to progress we can't close our minds to the "Possibilities" of the "Impossible" if we do we might as well go back to the stone age and never invent the wheel in the first place to get us going to where we are now.

Nothing you have stated supports this claim. Being able to identify impossibilities is common in science. You are confusing a lot of issues here and falling for the silly claim that anything is possible. It's simply not true.

In 1610 one or more persons reported 3 interesting observations.
1. Venus has phases
2. Jupiter has moons
3. a comet's path

Although it had been supposed for over 1500 years that the Earth was NOT at the center of the universe, here was clear evidence that objects appeared to be going around other celestial objects. Although Copernicus had put forward his thinking and evidence over a half century before it was the 1610 observations that helped seal the fate of the geocentric universe.

Just as the Aristotlean viewpoint was dogmatic that a certain theory was correct, it is as dogmatic to claim that anything is possible.

reply to post by scott,aussie


A brown star is even more preposterous than a planet. And that's not my thought. That';s Mark Brown speaking.

Where Are You Hiding Planet X, Dr. Brown?

reply to post by stereologist


Do I have to make shorter posts is that the problem here ?
You seem to pick & choose a lot when it comes to this thread, if it doesn't fit your personal belief system then it gets tossed aside, you seem to refuse to accept that there is more to this world then what we are told or know.
What we think we know, isn't everything we do know, is that concept beyond your understanding ?
What I have is a THEORY, remember what that word means ? I can't prove it or disprove it.
Unless it actually happens, if it happens at all, it might not, it might happen in another reality, we can't prove if it happens in that reality instead of this one if it happens there & not here, unless you can see into that other reality, which last time I looked we can't with our current tech & science. We can imagine it, right ?
Are you the type that believes everything they tell us when they themselves don't have all the answers ?
I hope not, as no one knows all the answers, not even I do, God (if you believe in one that is) might know all the answers, or so religion tells us that he / she / it does. (depending on your belief system of course)
You've come across in this thread so far as someone who "Knows it all, so everything else is bunk, period."
Remember a Theory is only just a Theory until proven otherwise, that how science does things, right ?
If we had all the answers, we'd stop asking questions, we'd stop learning anything new, we'd have no reason to progress anymore because we'd know everything there is to know, wouldn't we ?
I was thinking of not responding because you seem rather closed-minded, I hope I'm wrong about that.
As for Bob & Bill, they don't see one another from their point of view, and it was an example, you silly goose.

- W -
* Don't take life so seriously, you'll never get out of it alive - I think this was said by Groucho Marx, I have bad memory about some of the quotes I remember, I forget who said some of them I recall, must be old age *

P.S. Please tell us where all the freakin' left socks go, as it's important to this entire theory ;-)

reply to post by Woulfe

What I have is a THEORY, remember what that word means ? I can't prove it or disprove it.

That's not what theory means in science.

You've come across in this thread so far as someone who "Knows it all, so everything else is bunk, period."

That a falsehood you are using to form a strawman argument.

Remember a Theory is only just a Theory until proven otherwise, that how science does things, right ?

No. Learn what a theory is in science.

I was thinking of not responding because you seem rather closed-minded, I hope I'm wrong about that.

Being able to identify impossible issues is not closed minded. Accepting every claim no matter if impossible or just extremely dubious is not having an open mind. You might want to learn what these terms mean.

I noticed that you did not attempt to support your claim that QM was once called "junk science." You might want to take a history of science course. You'd learn about the development of the scientific method and different methodologies that have been used over time. You'd learn about myths such as Columbus thought the world was flat. Completely false. You'd learn how scientists know what they do not know. You'd learn about the evolution from individual researchers to large organizations and the influences of governments and industry on research.

You'd also learn to drop some of your complaints which are invalid:
1. the closed mind complaint
2. the know-it-all complaint
3. the anything is possible complaint
4. there are no facts everything is really an opinion complaint
5. the it's just a theory complaint

There are lots more. I think this is a starter list.

reply to post by stereologist


So, let me see if I get this right, generally speaking mind you, as that seems what your doing to everyone here.

1. QM was NEVER called "Junk Science" EVER at any time in history by anyone ?
2. The world being round was accepted by ALL once it was announced ?
3. So, new ideas are not needed anymore, as we know everything there is to know ?
4. Science was NEVER put down by Religious dogma, EVER ?
5. I stated in my OP it was a Theory, but I guess that's not good enough for you, how about I call it a "What If" scenario instead, or is that the same freakin' thing as a Theory or am I mis-informed as to what it's called when someone speculates "What If" this then means that and the other thing and it all ties together this way ?
6. This idea isn't my belief on what will happen, only a "What If" it's this totally different thing outside of our current understanding, yet somehow you know it isn't because somehow we're able to KNOW this already ?
7. I've been trying to understand were your coming from and all you seem to do is keep throwing my idea out because It's too far outside "THE BOX" we all are put into because science can't back it up, even giving the fact that "We don't know everything there is to know about everything" ?
8. I asked you to tell us what happens to keys that you know you put on the table, yet they weren't there, you then look though your entire house looking for them, only to find them right where you thought you left them ?
( Random objects seeming to vanish into thin air only to be back where they vanished from in the first place. forgot what this was called, but it has happened to rational folks that aren't forgetful due to advance age.)
9. Do I need to spell it out that back in the days of old, what we would call science was hidden, due to the times we lived in, for fear of being stoned, hung, etc ?
10. I'm possibly wasting my time with you because you are so firm in your beliefs that if this was to happen you'd never see it happen, because you can't accept "New Ideas" because that's how you come across to me ?

- W -
* Answer or don't answer, I don't care as we just seem to be going around in circles here when it comes to this *

P.S. For another instance, loosing a TV remote, only to find it where you left it last & not ate by the couch monster & under the cushions where you usually find things like money, a cell phone, half a pizza slice, etc.
Yea, I know couch monster isn't scientific, but that's what people call it, hows that for generalizing things ?

reply to post by stereologist


l mike brown said its posible the sun has a twin, brown star an no wounder he cand find them hes looking in the rong spot if hes lookin in the astriod belt (kuiper belt). i woulnt personly no were it is but i did read (not what mike b rote but) it is comeing throu from the south not on our ecliptic plane but, anyway i dont realy care hows rite or rong it mightnt even be out their acording to some, plenty versions on it an plenty names for it to

reply to post by scott,aussie


Let's see how many mistakes can be made in one post.
1. The Kuiper belt is not the asteroid belt
2. Brown does not suggest a brown dwarf companion could enter the orbits of the known planets
3. anything approaching the South Pole would be visible in the entire southern hemisphere
4. whole sky surveys also cover the south pole
5. plenty of hoax names does make it any more real

It's a simple read I provided and you should read it to learn why Mike Brown, the person that found Eris, thinks people should know why an unknown planet approaching Earth is ridiculous.

reply to post by Woulfe


There seems to be a major lack of comprehension issue here. You made a long list of statements that show you do not understand what is going on. Furthermore, many of the statements have nothing to do with me. They appear to be unrelated notions that have popped into your head.

I do see that you are dropping the silly notion that your idea of theory is somehow related to the way that the word is used in scientific endeavors. That's a start. You wouldn't want to compare your speculations with things like the theory of gravity, which is not a speculation.

Your list doesn't seem to have a theme, nor do you provide a summation of what the list represents. It seems to be your own way of collecting disparate thoughts.

I've been trying to understand were your coming from and all you seem to do is keep throwing my idea out because It's too far outside "THE BOX" we all are put into because science can't back it up, even giving the fact that "We don't know everything there is to know about everything" ?

There seems to be a mistaken idea on your part some ideas are too far outside the box. That is a mistake. I've never said any ideas were too far outside the box. I've say that ideas were demonstrably false. Maybe the problem is that I need to explain the phrase demonstrably false. It means that it is possible to show or demonstrate that something is not true. It's not a matter that science cannot back an idea. There are plenty of those ideas around. In this case science can be employed ot show that the idea is false.

The idea that we need to know everything to know anything is another logical fallacy often employed by those that do not understand how scientific predictions are made. Lots of things can be predicted with incredible accuracy. Astronomical predictions are a great example. Eclipses can be predicted out hundreds of years. The location of where the events can be observed and the duration of the events can be predicted with incredible accuracy centuries into the future. Even better it is possible to predict occultations of stars by asteroids. Small asteroids only 20 meters across will cover up stars. These occulations can be accurately predicted describing the path and times the occultation is visible. The same principles used in these studies is used to show that no unknown planet can exist that has an orbit entering the orbits of the known planets.

reply to post by Woulfe


The idea that objects temporarily or permanently move between realities (avoiding the term dimensions on purpose) has been explored in a number of science fiction stories. The one that comes to mind is "For a Foggy Night" a short story by Larry Niven.

Comments on For a Foggy Night

I wonder why we have an expectation that entire objects make the transition. A partial transition does not mean half a person is left behind as in the TV show Fringe. Another possibility might mean that some of the internal matter shifts but not all.

Why would an entire remote move between realities? Why can't some of the circuitry move? Why can't the power supply move?

In terms of socks, why not part of a sock?