Why does God allow the existance of people who go to hell?, page 3

A very old question, that has been answered by the theologians, and yet, I think you're right on monkey, there ain't "no satisfaction" in what they keep saying. I wonder why that is?

Probably because the very idea of "Hell" itself contains real contradictions, and most people are in fact too smart to really believe it.

And yet, many seem to believe it, like adjensen, who is certainly sharing the standard, dare I even use the word "orthodox" responses.

But since we've all been there, done that, why not attempt a new approach to this difficulty? I'm sure there are ATS'ers out there who love to think outside the box, why not tackle this old problem, since it still seems to stick in so many craws?

In another thread, I shared my thoughts on this matter, but right up front I should say that I was raised a Christian, and was also taught about that awful place called Hell. But the "good news" is, I escaped! So maybe you can too.

But I'm not sure anyone can escape anything, if the prison itself remains tightly around our heads. It's really important to get out of that box, even if only for a minute, and genuinely slip on other "moccasins", just so you can see what they feel like. Otherwise, you can spend a lot of time just thinking essentially the same thoughts (usually the same ones given to you as a child), and if they never got you to "satisfaction", then I would submit that it can't hurt to try another approach.

Here's what I observed that I found quite interesting. From what I could tell, it didn't look like anyone actually believed in hell to begin with! I know, some of the knee-jerkers out there have just shut off the channel, but as absurd as this sounds, I was not able to disprove it, even though I tried.

And so I thought about real people, people in my life, people I knew, people who "should" really believe in hell (think about your pastors and priests, maybe even your devout grandma!), and yet, none of them really passed the "test" I had devised. And that test had to do with how people really acted, when one of their loved ones "fell into hell". Because we all know that actions speak louder than words.

Still pretty absurd? Well, over the years, various people have died of course. Not all of them I knew, but I made it a point to explore some about each event, learn what I could. As many may guess, a fair amount of these would not have been considered "saved" (in the usual popular sense). To take this perspective as an observer can be quite interesting, because you can politely ask "thoughtful" questions that people will often answer, and they hardly realize they are on a sort of "candid camera".

Take the one friend I had who I had known since grammer school. He eventually passed away, died of throat/mouth cancer. Life-long tobacco user of course. I had well-meaning "christian" folk tell me things like, "Well, objectively speaking, I guess we know where he's at, sorry to say..." Yes, he had lived a wild life, but I found myself wondering about the morality of not just the people who thought this way about other human beings, but about a system that seemed prone to producing such thoughts.

But that would be one end of the spectrum. What about those we love? For example, we could say something like "Mama's boy is dead, but he sure wasn't saved!" This might happen a thousand times a day. And yet, after a normal period of Mama's grief, what we really observe is that life just goes on.

But should it? "If" Mama (or anybody) truly believed her beloved was suffering in that terrible place, wouldn't they ACT differently? Shouldn't they be insane with grief, perhaps come to hate God even, etc. In my other post, I use the example of a big pot of hot water in your house, with your loved one inside! They would be hard to ignore in this example, but if you really believed in that awful place, you wouldn't have to have it in your face, you would believe. But what do we see? Life just goes on!

Why is this? The simplest explanation is that we really don't believe that our loved ones ares in that place at all. Not so hard to imagine really, but we would have to take the cage off our heads for a moment to truly consider it.

Here's yet another non-theological thought. Perhaps there are some out there who have actually loved someone before? I would submit that if this was the case, then it should be enough, all by itself, to realize the absurdity in claiming "God" loves us, (more than anyone else could!), and yet "allows" such an incredibly horrific eternal fate for the (supposed) beloved. Of course, "free will", blah, blah! But first try loving anybody really, and then see if yabbering about free will cuts it. Intuitively, something should kick in that says, "It can't be..."

Remember that really horrid "god" Molech of the old Testament? The one with his arms held out, ready to hold your baby? He sure was a beast! In order to give sacrifice to him, the metal or stone idol was heated to red-hot. Then, infants would be placed into his arms, as their mothers looked on! Imagine the unbelievable screams! Look upon the young mother's tormented face!

And yet, the christian "god" is a million times worse! As terrible as Molech was, it must be said that he really could only "enjoy" the screams of the infant for perhaps a whole 30 seconds before the child expired. But the popular "true God" of today, he watches the "smoke of their torment ascend forever, and ever..."! This is Love? Not even close.

Someone mentioned Stalin, Hitler...If their mothers could love them, so could any "real" God. For those who have children, ask yourself, what kind of crime would they have to commit for you to be OK with sending them to Hell? What if they killed someone? What if they enjoyed doing it? What if it was 1,000...a million they killed. Look at that child and realize that if you even knew what love was, such a thing "would never enter your minds" (A scriptural reference, the OT "god" talking about how he detested sacrifice to Molech).

What about the complete lack of remedial value in Hell? You mean, Hitler could suffer a million years, and not "get it"? You mean Christ, the "Divine Physician" can't fix Hitler? Hmmm.

And so far, no deep theology! There is that too, but this is long enough already (don't worry Christians, no one really reads this long stuff!).

JR