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Does having faith in the Bibles means having faith in the men who wrote ?

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posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 12:57 PM
Are you sure of the authenticity of the texts you base your faith upon? Are they even coherent with an All-Loving-All-Knowing-All-Powerful (ALAKAP) God? Can God be frustrated, angry, violent, jealous, homicidal… or even disappointed? Have you truly thought about the implications of such «states of mind» for a GOD?

MY meaning is: don’t fall for a lie (or a misconception) about what we, human-beings, BELIEVE about life, «reality», the existence of a GOD and his potential behavior (how God would be and act).
I have a question for you: Is it really NECESSARY (or even healthy) to BELIEVE anything?

Now, to the topic:
Many MEN have claimed to have "met", or heard from, God…

…Or angels and there is also a (relatively) new trend of people contacted/channeled by «ascended masters»  or aliens…
That’s the basics for any religion. A man/woman («the contactee») claim to have receive message(s) from God and want/is asked to share it (them). Some have «succeeded» in making people believe them and thus started new religions (Interesting to note that today it’s called a sect/cult. The market is closed, the priesthood of the already existing religions don’t want to see new competitor I guess. Some still pass through the cracks like Scientology and its contactee: Ron Hubbard…)
Do you have faith in these MEN? Meaning, do you believe them to have really spoken with/met God???
Nevertheless, you have only their word for it. Could they have lied? Like men cannot lie…
Do you believe any people (with a seemingly beautiful message) saying to you they met God or are God’s son??

Or do you believe them (Moses, JC and his apostles, Mohammad…) now just because many people believed them then (and still do now)? Or is it because you think their message is so beautiful and powerful that their claim can ONLY be true?
Well, for those who didn’t read my two previous threads on the proof that (the) God (of the Bibles) is NOT ALL-loving, All-Knowing, nor All-powerful, nor even Perfect and Just/Fair… Here are the links:

Also they are MEN CLAIMING to have received God’s message. Really what people want to forget is when they say they have faith in God, what they really mean is:
« We believe in the man (men) claiming/pretending to have spoken to God or be the son of God or even being God incarnated. »!

Because, as they never met God themselves, they choose to believe in men claiming to have!!
So, do they have faith in God or in these MEN???
Does, having faith in God mean, in fact, having faith in MEN (who wrote the texts of the Bibles or are perceived as prophets)???

I know people who like these concepts (believe/faith), don’t you?
I wont speak about alleged «dark elites» because it’s not necessary to my point. But what about governments and all the people who «simply» want power and try to justify, expand or consolidate it?
A quick look at history should convince you of the dangers of this concept (faith of course), of the (evil) places that it leads to. How many faithers committed atrocities?
Maybe it's because they had the wrong faith or didn’t have faith enough. Do you?

Did any of you see the movie «The book of Eli»? Didn’t you find odd that Gary Oldman (playing the evil-controlling-master-thug) would want the Bible so badly?! And not to burn it for no one to read…
No… To use it to justify his lead/control/grip on the community he’s trying to enslave… Don’t you find it telling of the way the Bible can also be used?!
This arguments alone should make people think long and hard (before to say they have faith in the conception of the God that has been presented/delivered to them as real)… and raise doubts… But you’ll understand if you read my threads why they still DECIDE to believe in the existence of God, the Bible(s) regardless of its origin and even its content! How many people did indeed read the Bible?

posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 12:57 PM
(Thread cotinuation)

How many try to dismiss or interpret/modify the disturbing/inconvenient passages to suit their beliefs/desires?!

But what about the origin of the Bible itself?
Doesn’t it bother you to base your life on principles and stories that were «passed on» essentially orally for centuries? Doesn’t it bother you that ALL the writings we have on Jesus were written decades if not centuries after his life ended?

Do you really think that the whole the Bible -Old & New testament in their definitive form- was accessible or even written during Moses’ and JC’s life or just after? We know they weren’t. Texts have been excluded (Book of Enoch, Mathew, Judas and Philip’s gospels plus numerous stories from legitimate sources and anonymous texts) and the ones we know were chosen to form the Bible are simply texts written by different characters at different periods of time!
So, are you SURE that the words you read are the ones of Jesus/Moses written down word for word or the ones of true God disciples/apostles? Why do you even try so badly to convince yourself?

Again, can’t they have been manipulated/modified (or even made up completely by «demons» (or any man). You could say that we can check the timeline with COPIES we have found… Yeah… Copies…
Do you know the meaning of «to antedate/back date»?
The Dead Sea scrolls seem (they aren’t in good shape…) to confirm only some of the passages of the Bible. In no way they are THE Bible. And it’s nearly impossible to (carbon)date them…

I DON’T SAY Jesus or Moses didn’t exist (for Muhammad it’s easier to confirm) nor that they didn’t deliver a powerful and helping message. I am in no position to prove nor disprove it. So I DON’T KNOW. But… Neither do you… Nor anyone…
That’s why faith is required of us! And first, faith in the true (historic) origin (not of its chronology nor accounts) of the Bible itself (and the truthfulness of its words) but also in the people who ascribed each text (book) to its (correct/true) author.
That’s some leap of faith asked from us… Is it so painful to admit to don’t know or to have doubts?

My point is that before to discuss the content of the texts we should be SURE of their historical origin, the time they appeared. IMO we can have an idea, an approximate timeline but, in no way, certainty. But, anyway it would be a one that demonstrates the different origins and epochs of the (many) texts accepted (and rejected) to form the Bible/New Testament or Torah.

I raise this because it seems REALLY important for faithers to be able to prove their «true»  origins. And they try hard to convince themselves and others of the fact that they were written by Moses or the TRUE disciples of Jesus at their respective times.

Personally, I don’t care when and even by whom it was written. I just care about its content: the ideas/messages… But I’m no faither though…

But maybe the vast majority of (not the «hardcore» faithers) people don’t really care (or want) to know who really wrote these texts or even when. The only proof they need is that other people (family/environment: gregarious behavior) convince them that they are Holy and true. And/or that the content itself of these texts proves it. They think that the revealing, inspiring, moving, helpful, grandiose (sarcasm)… nature of these texts is sufficient proof of their divine origin.
Well, we already showed (in other threads) that as revealing/inspiring (?!)… as they may be, they are surely NOT Holy (from God)!

posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 01:18 PM
i was enraged when i first learned about all the flaws errors contradictions and horrible things in the bible.......does science disprove god no but it does disprove the bible..........the bible disproves itself......quickest way to become a non believer is to read your bible with an open mind like you would any other book.......

posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 01:51 PM
reply to post by Project_USA

You know if your going to attack holy books, why don't you do all of them?

Don't just focus on the Bible.

The works of Homer, Hesiod, the Tripiṭaka, the Nag Hammadi texts, the Five Classics, the Hermetica, the Vedas, the Quran, the Satanic Bible, the Urantia Book, Dianetics, the Tao Te Ching, the Book of the Law, the Avesta, the Eddas, the Aradia, the Secret Doctrine, the Law of One, and the works of Plato are all out there for you to judge, insult, and mock.

Have fun spitting on human history and culture.

posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 01:55 PM
I was recently told by a friend that Jesus/Christ/Messiah was in fact a form of spirituality by the same name/names, then an actual person. The confusion, and the riddles of the Bible to me clearly state that this is not going to be understood by most, but when that is told by some, that's where they place man, as the middle man for such communication.

In order for man to follow such things, TPTB of the times knew that they had to take certain aspects of the human mind, such as feeling closer to a person then a being, and ran with it. IMO your relationship with either your spirituality or creator/creators is a personal awakening, and not a judgment of either having or lacking in your heart what you should feel about G-d, or G-d not feeling about you.

When I do speak to religious people, most of them now understand that the bible has it faults, but fail to realize that if you as a human being cant decipher it, why would you think that a priest/pastor could do any better? There are to many questions that we all have for us thinking that we have to some how figure out G-d's motives. Personally I think their aren't any, but considering the world we live in, and the motives of those who claim to be representatives of G-d himself, have this planet in turmoil.

I seem to have a better understanding now of the religious aspects of the personal relationship that I am supposed to have for myself and others as opposed to thinking that someone has to tell me how to live, or love others in order for me to go to a place that either exists or not, but as long as I am here, I will follow my heart and mind, not words of men that have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

Peace to you...

posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 02:05 PM
reply to post by JTpirate

Do you say MY Bible??
Because I dont believe in the God of the Bible so...
I thought simply reading this thread should make that clear.

posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 02:11 PM
reply to post by MikeboydUS

Read my threads and (maybe) you will understand that I dont to attack the "Holy Books".

I want to show people that the concept of FAITH ITSELF is stupid.
But, in order to do that, I have to follow a certain pattern, do it step by step.

posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 02:16 PM
reply to post by Project_USA

How is faith stupid?

Do you mean faith itself or just religious belief?

posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 02:27 PM

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Project_USA

How is faith stupid?

Do you mean faith itself or just religious belief?

The concept of FAITH itself:

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