Six Months to Go Until The Largest Tax Hikes in History

reply to post by skeptic_al


Lawyer does not = rich, at least in terms of "tax the rich". Most lawyers are middle class folks.

Not too many folks who went to Harvard Law School and the like hire in an IT pro to do work for them. They tell their assistant to call down to the IT staff and have them send one of the firm's engineers up.

apples and oranges

I agree that there is a lot that is distasteful about how law is currently practiced and that lawyers have created too many problems to count. I also believe that in a civil society there is a need for a good lawyer. Were you to ever be wrongly accused of something, you better shed your feelings about lawyers and get the best one you can find.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by skeptic_al

 

You folks need to grow up. Its easy to rail against the stereotypical "rich" person who walks around with his white sweater around his neck with an ascot. That is a tiny fraction of the "rich" people. The Bushes, Cheneys, Clintons, Kennedys, and the rest are a smaller fraction of that tiny percentage, same with the banker who gets $50M a year.

The average rich person in this country is a small business owner. Some gent who started out with nothing and now has a viable business. That gent who works 15 hours a day and has 15 plumbers working at his plumbing business? He's rich. The gent who owns the local mini-market and has his entire family working the store 24/7/365? He's rich. The gent who started cutting lawns and now has a dozen crews doing landscaping? He's rich.

All of those folks worked their butts off to become rich and your saying that they did not earn that money honestly is immature.

Lets fast forward two generations. The plumbing gent's grandson now runs a nationwide chain of plumbing outfits and is worth $100M. Was his money earned dishonestly? How about if he just took a small inheritance from his grandfather and invested it wisely and is now worth $100M. Is that dishonest?

Lets also take a look at the evil banker, lawyer, business executive. When most of the folks who are crying and claiming that they are dishonest scumbags were chasing chicks around, watching TV and in general being non-productive they were studying. Working. Thats right - working. They're the folks who were not cool and got the good grades and into good colleges. They're the folks who did not party all the way through college and got into top law, business schools where they broke their butts to graduate. Oh and then, after working full tilt from the time they entered high school they got jobs where they were worked 70-80 hours a week. You don't like those guys. You never liked them. They weren't cool. Now they have the world by the ass while you're still slogging away and bearly breaking even.

Oh, but now its not fair. Its not fair that they have more. The pretty wife and beautiful kids. The cars, the houses and vacations in exotic places. Its not fair that they fly first class and have brokers, accountants, estate managers and tax attorneys. They did not deserve it. Hell, you know they don't deserve it because you knew those guys in school and in college and they were not even close to being in the cool crowd you hung out with. All of the cool kids were out chasing girls and getting hammered and these dudes were so lame that they spent time in the library on week nights. Imagine!

Now, you're filled with self loathing from the consequences of poor decisions you made. You're not them and its killing you. You want to punish them. What you're really doing is deflecting contempt you have for yourself onto them. Self contempt and regret. Regret because you could have been in their shoes. Thats the rub. In this country anyone can be in their shoes. The fact that you're not is where all of the anger comes from

Grow up. Let the anger go and grow up.

Funny, not a link to any of the statements you claim as fact. I wonder how many of those small businesses got small business loans from the government? From the tax payer per se. Yet, they are the very ones NOW saying the government is too big. They are the ones saying no thank you to higher taxes. This after tax payer money made them rich.

GREED and GLUTINOUS living will destroy this country.

reply to post by Come Clean


Define fair. If we have a 10% tax bracket, someone who makes $100,000/year pays $10,000. Someone who makes $1,000,000/year pays $100,000. Both amounts are 10x as much. That is the definition of fairness.

Is it unfair that the one gent has so much more money? Why? Say he wants to take all of the money he makes and buy Pokemon cards. By what right do you or anyone else say that it is unfair for him to do so?

We currently have a progressive, graduated income tax. It is more than fair, unless you are suggesting that the difference in wealth in and of itself is unfair. If thats the case, you ought to move to Cuba because thats the swinging deal they have got going on there.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by Come Clean

 

Define fair. If we have a 10% tax bracket, someone who makes $100,000/year pays $10,000. Someone who makes $1,000,000/year pays $100,000. Both amounts are 10x as much. That is the definition of fairness.

Is it unfair that the one gent has so much more money? Why? Say he wants to take all of the money he makes and buy Pokemon cards. By what right do you or anyone else say that it is unfair for him to do so?

We currently have a progressive, graduated income tax. It is more than fair, unless you are suggesting that the difference in wealth in and of itself is unfair. If thats the case, you ought to move to Cuba because thats the swinging deal they have got going on there.

Fair is fair. If I pay 28% then warren buffet should pay 28%. At no time should someone making 80K a year pay 32% while someone making 1 billion a year pay 12% in taxes.

reply to post by Come Clean


Plenty of statistics and its logical. If you take the typical small business and add up the value of the enterprise, inclusive of income it does not take that long to hit a million.

Below is an excerpt of "The Millionaire Next Door" a recent book on the typical American millionaire

www.askmen.com...


"What Stanley and Danko found in their research surprised even them. Here are a few tidbits that I think are of interest. The research statistics quoted in this article are taken directly from The Millionaire Next Door .


"About two-thirds of American millionaires are self-employed." Sure, that corner office may be nice, but starting a small business may make more financial sense if you're even the slightest bit an entrepreneur.



Most of the businesses these millionaires run are considered "dull-normal." These people are "welding contractors, auctioneers, rice farmers, owners of mobile-home parks, pest controllers, coin and stamp dealers, and paving contractors."
Who would've guessed that these are the kinds of businesses that are making millionaires out of people? I guess Wall Street may not be the best place to get rich after all.


These millionaires "have an average household net worth of $3.7 million." Not bad at all, in my opinion. We sometimes forget that before making one billion, we need to start with our first million.
Ted Turner was very clear in stating that his first million was the hardest to make. After that, the money just kept piling up faster and faster. There's a lesson to be learned here, gentlemen; focus on piling up that first million. Worry about the other $999 million later.


"About 80[%] of [the millionaires] are first-generation affluent." That's right. Forget about the myth of old money; most people in this country work hard (and smart) to make their money. One of the major ingredients for success is to use good old "elbow grease."



These millionaires "live well below their means. They wear inexpensive suits and drive American-made cars. Only a minority of them drives the current-model-year automobile. Only a minority ever leases their motor vehicles." Very interesting. The next time you see that hotshot driving a brand new Mercedes SL500, just remember that he may not own the car and may be living in debt. Big hat, no cattle, as they say in Texas."

These are the folks who are about to get hammered come January.

Originally posted by AllexxisF1
Oh you mean those tax cuts that benefited the super rich?

Those tax cuts that exploded the deficit?

That tax cut which we had to borrow from China to pay which devalued our currency even more.

You must mean those tax cuts that were going to create millions of new jobs when rich people got to keep more of their money right?

Oh wait...the rich got to keep their money, exploded our deficit and started ZERO new jobs in the process.

Chalk one up for the Conservative failed ideology.



[edit on 2-7-2010 by AllexxisF1]

[edit on 2-7-2010 by AllexxisF1]

straight to the point, i like it....

i tried to think of something to add but instead decided to dedicate this space for my second line!

Cheers,
AA

[edit on 3-7-2010 by anonamousantichrist]

So what you are saying is being a millionaire really isn't all that right? So what are they worried for? Accounts receivable is still considered an asset right? So technically, 1 million dollars in accounts receivable and 1.1 million dollars in accounts payable doesn't make you a true millionaire?

Even then, pay your fair share!

But you forgot to include how many of these millionaires used small business loans. But now they are complaining about the government taxing them. They had no problem when the government was giving them a tax payer loan.

Approximately 8 million Americans are considered millionaires.

What's that in a percent? 2.6% of Americans based on 310 million Americans? Yet that small amount of Americans should pay less in taxes than 97.4% of us? How the heck do you think they stay rich?



[edit on 3-7-2010 by Come Clean]

Originally posted by anonamousantichrist

Originally posted by AllexxisF1
Oh you mean those tax cuts that benefited the super rich?

Those tax cuts that exploded the deficit?

That tax cut which we had to borrow from China to pay which devalued our currency even more.

You must mean those tax cuts that were going to create millions of new jobs when rich people got to keep more of their money right?

Oh wait...the rich got to keep their money, exploded our deficit and started ZERO new jobs in the process.

Chalk one up for the Conservative failed ideology.



[edit on 2-7-2010 by AllexxisF1]

[edit on 2-7-2010 by AllexxisF1]

straight to the point, i like it....

i tried to think of something to add but instead decided to dedicate this space for my second line!

Cheers,
AA

[edit on 3-7-2010 by anonamousantichrist]

I would still like for them to explain what happened to the stock market a month or so ago. A 1000 point drop in 3 minutes deserves an answer. I still think it was done on purpose to send us a message. Mess with them and they will mess with us.

I think they are purposely keeping the economy from growing at a faster rate. These people are capable of anything folks. They would shoot their own parents in the head to make a buck. Just ask the Menendez brothers.

reply to post by dbloch7986

THINGS THAT MAKE YOU GO MMMMMM
this is a small exert from mother shipton born york england like me but ive lived in New York for last 17 years which offers me the luxury of seeing both governments work first hand and the "MOOD" of the people id say she was on the money when i finally get to start a thread then i intend to spell it all out with facts and time stamps and make of it what you will but i personally do not belive in LUCk CHANCE or COINCIDENCE life could never exist it these rules applied im no doomsdayer but i am a firm beliver that OUR COMBINED AWARENESS and AWAKENING can change our future and that of our children in fact so much so i have to say that and only that is CHANGE I CAN BELIVE IN

The signs will be there for all to read;
When man shall do most heinous deed Man will ruin kinder lives;
By taking them as to their wives.
And murder foul and brutal deed:
When man will only think of greed.
And man shall walk as if asleep;
He does not look - he may not peep And iron men the tail shall do;
And iron cart and carriage too.

[The greed of modern man]

The king shall false promise make;
And talk just for talking’s sake.
And nations plan horrific war;
The like as never seen before.
And taxes rise and lively down;
And nations wear perpetual frown.

[False promises by politicians, wars between nations, increase in taxes and perpetual tension among nations.]

Yet greater sign there be to see;
As man nears latter century.
Three sleeping mountains gather breath, And spew out mud, ice and death. An earthquake swallow town and town;
In lands as yet to me unknown. And Christian one fights Christian two And nations sigh, yet nothing do. And yellow men great power gain;
From a mighty bear with whom they’ve lain.

[Volcanoes, earthquakes (in unknown land - America?) destroying town after town, fighting between nations. Speaks of a Chinese (yellow) - Russian (bear) alliance against the west. Most of China’s current weapons have come in deals with Russia.]

These mighty tyrants will fail to do, They fail to split the world in two. But from their acts a danger bred;
An ague, leaving many dead.

[Failure of this Russian/Chinese alliance, indication of war leaving many dead. The word “Ague” means flu plague or epidemic of disease.]

And physics find no remedy;
For this is worse than leprosy.
Oh many signs for all to see;
The truth of this true prophecy

reply to post by Come Clean


I started-out, with a $10,000 GIFT, from my Grandaddy. I sold my house, and sportscar. I worked, 6-7 days/week, 60-70 hours/week, for 20 years. I now own THREE companies, and am "comfortable". I've provided GOOD PAYING jobs, for over 100 people. I think I deserve, EVERYTHING, that I've earned. BTW- there is NO JOB, in any of my companies, that I have not personally done.
Yes, it is VERY easy, to complain about what others have. I went years, without a vacation. I bet YOU didn't!I SACRAFICED, for my companies, I sacraficed, for my employees.
It is so easy, to look with envy, on others, and NEVER CONSIDER, how they got there. Petty jealousy, is NOT attractive.

I wonder why the transfer of wealth from the poor to the middle and upper class is never frowned upon? It only gets attention when it's from the upper and middle class to the poor.

The rich got richer, the middle class stayed the same, and the poor got poorer under Reaganomics.

Basically, don't complain about the transfer of wealth if you're not concerned about it both ways.

Try moving to Ontario. Health Care is free, but we do have our own issues.

Our illustrious leaders just hit the middle class with the single largest tax grab in history with the introduction of the HST (Harmonized Sales Tax)

Everything sold (with minor exceptions ) was hit with increased sales taxes of 13%

This includes gasoline, heating fuels, electricity, booze, smokes, clothing, etc. The list is pretty much endless. Any hope of a consumer led recovery are done like dinner.

The tax was brought in through the back door, no debate or consultation with the electorate.

No wonder many of us can't sit down right now.

Originally posted by Patriotgal
reply to post by Come Clean

 

I started-out, with a $10,000 GIFT, from my Granddaddy. I sold my house, and sportscar. I worked, 6-7 days/week, 60-70 hours/week, for 20 years. I now own THREE companies, and am "comfortable". I've provided GOOD PAYING jobs, for over 100 people. I think I deserve, EVERYTHING, that I've earned. BTW- there is NO JOB, in any of my companies, that I have not personally done.
Yes, it is VERY easy, to complain about what others have. I went years, without a vacation. I bet YOU didn't!I SACRAFICED, for my companies, I sacraficed, for my employees.
It is so easy, to look with envy, on others, and NEVER CONSIDER, how they got there. Petty jealousy, is NOT attractive.

LOL!!!! I hit the lottery and became an instant millionaire. So all your hard work really means nothing right? What matters is location and luck.

PS...I bet you never paid your granddaddy back did you? Because if you did then you should have mentioned it. Too late now, I already quoted you.

PS...a gift from your grandpa really isn't considered hard work now is it?

Originally posted by dbloch7986
I like how this story was buried on the news site I go to too. In the bottom of the page so no one would notice.

I had to comment on this.
If a news source didn't want people to know about it, they wouldn't print it. The fact that it was so low on the priority list is not because there's some big secret or cover-up, it's because people just are not interested.

Okay, we might be, because we're intelligent people. But the majority are idiots of the highest order and simply do not understand even basic economics.

Just look at the situation we now find ourselves in, both the UK and USA. WE (as in ATS members) looked ahead and predicted a lot of what happened. And we've all been saying for months if not years that tax increases would be immense and that this was when the sheep would finally wake up and the trouble start.
This is what happened in Greece.

The same will happen in every nation affected by the crisis. TPTB have only delayed the inevitable taxation in the hope that people will forget the reasons for it.
They hope they've left it long enough for people to forget that they are now paying for the trillions paid out to the wealthy bankers.

And you know, I have a feeling people have forgotten.
Yes, there might be a few Union protests and strikes, but the vast majority of people are far too lazy and far too ignorant.
They won't have the intelligence to connect their incredible tax increases to the money given to the banksters by their government.

Welcome to perhaps the largest shift in the class system ever seen. We thought the gap between rich and poor was big before? Now it's going to be a whole new dimension of hugeness!
On the one hand you'll have billions of people around the world struggling to make ends meet, and on the other you'll have a minority living in luxury, and they'll be the corporate and government leaders. The middle class will be destroyed.

what about the politicians who impose the tax hikes and impose minimum pay rules?
i'm in the uk and i'm not knowledgable on politics and the economy at all, but putting it plain and simple, all i see in my country is no matter which party gets voted in, the very first thing they do before ANYTHING else is give THEMSELVES a HUGE pay increase.
Then, with their fat wallets now heaving, they announce to the rest of us that the tax increases (which, during their election campaign they promised wouldn't happen), are unavoidable. Cant trust or believe one word any of them say, especially in the lead up to the election.
Liars and hypocrites and turncoats, the lot of them.
I've resigned myself to the fact that however much we rage in disagreement with tax increases, it wont make any difference because by the time we hear about it, it has already been discussed and decided, AND wheels already put in motion to effect it. We have to like it or lump it.
I bet your tax increases have already been decided too.
Anyway guys, i hope your government doesn't sting you too much, like our government(s) do us.

dooby

What's even sadder is that many of these supposed corporate taxes get computed down to ZERO if a corporation is multinational.

that's right, A company like Exxon can make 32 billion in a year, but since that money was made off shore, they do not have to claim it, but instead, they'll scribble in all the losses they took that year and make them accountable unto the American tax system and there ya go... other countries, who have more lienient tax codes than America get the taxes...

While Exxon files it's profit and loss statements and actually request the deficit be covered by the American People...

(just using Exxon as an example of multinational corporation)

What's even funnier is these same corporations take extravagant lunches, play a plethera of golf rounds, cater to foriegn entities with lavish expenses... then write them all off as business expenses.

um... what tax for the rich?

Exxon's CEO's wife just went to Sephora and spent $1200 dollars on makeup using the corporate charge card... Write off...

Mobil's CIO just went and made his 5 bedroom house wireless... using the corporate charge card to cover the $3 thousand dollar expense tag... write off...

A clerk at Sears who is in good with the General Manager of that franchise went and transported $8500 Dollars in craftsman tools and accessories to his garage, using the company van... write off....

Jupiter Networks comes to Vegas for it's annual CES expo, and invited 800 attendes to a wild concert bash at the House of blues, featuring Brian Setzer... pricetag of over $250 Thousand Dollars.... write off.

it gets better... really, it truly does.

reply to post by dolphinfan


Fair is Fair, it's not Fair when it's Unfair.
I know somebody who has somewhere between 10 and 20 Million depending
who I talked to. He complained to me once while I was fixing his PC about paying
500,000 tax. That's fair.

reply to post by Megiddodiddo


Exxon paid $0 tax in the USA for 2009, instead they just claimed they paid
their taxes in every country but the USA. And oddly enough it was Founded
in the USA and the Headoffice is in Texas, USA. So should it be any suprise
that John D Rockefellar was the Original Founder. And now the Rockefellars
are among the wealthiest most Influential family in the World.

Gee, I wonder how the Rockefellars they got so rich and powerful.