Xenophobia, or just stupidity?

Originally posted by Legion2112
Umm... do you guys honestly think that four quotes from individuals most Americans can't stand is a good microcosm of what we all think?

G. Gordon Liddy? Really? Do you even know who that pinhead is?

Not that everyone who participates in this thread will be as such, but so far I've gotta say that you America bashers are really grasping at straws here... and for a mod of all people to be painting an entire country with such broad strokes; classy dude.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by Legion2112]

America bashing is often SOP for that mod, unfortunately.

Regarding soccer ...

Or it could be that most Americans find soccer very boring to watch - at least on television. We like more action in most sporting contests than watching a bunch of people run around for 90 minutes producing a 0 - 0 tie, or maybe a 1 - 0 victory for one team over the other. Does soccer keep stats such as scoring efficiency like U.S. sports do? The numbers would be very low if they do.

The point of the game is to win by scoring more goals than your opponent, right? Maybe the rules need to be changed a little to allow more scoring - which might make the sport more interesting to Americans. For example, soccer seems to be somewhat similar to hockey (without the violence by the players), but there is more speed and scoring in hockey. So would soccer possibly benefit from a smaller field so the players don't have to run what seems like a quarter mile just to be able to try for a goal?

[edit on 6/28/2010 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Yeah, the US is only mad because once again this year they placed in the "Special Olympics" category of the world cup..

All joking aside, I do agree nefermore, it is Xenophobia, and it didn't exist before 9/11, at least not so blatantly.

Time for a history lesson for those that maybe had not become "aware" themselves before 9/11.

Historically, the U.S. was an isolationist country, not wanting to be involved in foreign wars and engaging in them only when attacked first. Even after all the military buildup from World War I, the first thing we did with the military was disband most of it.

As for soccer, be careful what you wish for. There have been a couple generations of little kids learning to play soccer now here. With a huge sports-minded population, how long before the U.S. is able to find the players to blow away the "little countries" of the world. Once that "fighting spirit" (generated by hearing things like this post) starts, all we'll be hearing from people like you is the whining about how it just isn't fair ...

Originally posted by centurion1211
America bashing is often SOP for that mod, unfortunately.

Is it - reallly?

I'd ask if you got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning but then I realise that sticking it to the staff of the board at any available opportunity is pretty much SOP from you.

What disappoints me more though, Centurion, is you avid ability to add absolutely nothing to this conversation except you own personal rhetoric and a pointless attempt at dissing soccer, when I've already explained on more than one occasion that its being used as an analogy for other things.

But hey - any opportunity to have a go eh?

Your failure to miss the point, and dismiss the thread so avidly is a perfect example of the kind of attitude I'm talking about, so thanks for reinforcing my point.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by Legion2112
Not that everyone who participates in this thread will be as such, but so far I've gotta say that you America bashers are really grasping at straws here... and for a mod of all people to be painting an entire country with such broad strokes; classy dude.

Its a discussion board.

We're having a discussion.

Its not America bashing, its a disussion about how certain sections of the US media so readily dismiss whats going on in the rest of the world.

If you don't understand the point I'm making, or can't understand the point I'm making, then I'm sorry about that. Maybe you should think about the issue some more and ask yourself what kind of audience someone like Glenn Beck reaches, and hwo his words have a shaping effect on some of those people, and how that then cascades out into society as a whole.

I realise that may be too difficult for you to comprehend, because its obvious you just want to pull out a label and stigmatise the conversation topic, but maybe you ought to try and understand the point and then you'll realise how pointlessly futile and juvenile your "america bashing" label really is.

[edit on 27/6/10 by neformore]

From what i seen so far this thread is an anti-american thread along with most of ATS.

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
I really have no idea what this thread is even about. The OP didn't really make any sense to me.

These people are shaping the minds of the next political generation. They are narrowing the view, instead of expanding it - is the US simply going to be reduced to a generation of right-wing politicians who, frankly, are going to be a complete liability to the country on a global scale, because they've never even tried to understand anything outside of the US.

Because of soccer?

The claimed broad misunderstanding of the rest of the world by america, is the same broad misunderstanding of america that seems to be held by the rest of the world.

I constantly hear this argument by people who most likely haven't even visited america, or even been closer to an american than a politician or actor on tv, and those are the same exact things they say about americans "most probably haven't left texas their whole life".

Obvious hypocrites are obvious.

What the mod did was he got quotes from three or four different americans and said this is how america is like.

Jeez, what would you Americans and Brits do without a Canuck kicking about? I see what Nef is saying and I'll continue with the football analogy. Back when TSN(Canada's version of ESPN) started out, they were pulling programming from around the world to augment a very small portion of sports that were topical to Canadians. You know? Hockey, curling, lumberjack comps. and donut eating. They put on Aussie rules football. Bunch of little pansies running around. Sport can't be that dangerous, they don't even use pads.

That was over 25 years ago. I've come to like Aussie Rules and can't get it anymore. Not as much as the NFL but I'd watch that over any other sport though. It's about new ideas. That the "same ole" can be improved on with inspection of other things and thoughts on them.

Off topic: Congrats to the US team. They did better than expected.

Originally posted by intrepid
Jeez, what would you Americans and Brits do without a Canuck kicking about? I see what Nef is saying and I'll continue with the football analogy. Back when TSN(Canada's version of ESPN) started out, they were pulling programming from around the world to augment a very small portion of sports that were topical to Canadians. You know? Hockey, curling, lumberjack comps. and donut eating. They put on Aussie rules football.

Bunch of little pansies running around. Sport can't be that dangerous, they don't even use pads.

That was over 25 years ago. I've come to like Aussie Rules and can't get it anymore. Not as much as the NFL but I'd watch that over any other sport though. It's about new ideas. That the "same ole" can be improved on with inspection of other things and thoughts on them.

Off topic: Congrats to the US team. They did better than expected.

Frankly I don't see why we should take american sports and put other countries ideas in them and be expected to LOVE it or be called a Xenophobia.

Originally posted by Alien Mind
Frankly I don't see why we should take american sports and put other countries ideas in them and be expected to LOVE it or be called a Xenophobia.

That is just an allegory. Like I said in my post. Didn't even want to consider anything called "football" except the NFL. I found out the were games out there that were as interesting. Aussie Rules. There IS more than one way. That's the point.

Btw, basketball was invented by a Canadian.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Alien Mind
Frankly I don't see why we should take american sports and put other countries ideas in them and be expected to LOVE it or be called a Xenophobia.

Btw, basketball was invented by a Canadian.

Do you want a cookie or something? Because i thought we were talking about football.

Originally posted by Alien Mind

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Alien Mind
Frankly I don't see why we should take american sports and put other countries ideas in them and be expected to LOVE it or be called a Xenophobia.

Btw, basketball was invented by a Canadian.

Do you want a cookie or something? Because i thought we were talking about football.

You missed the whole point of my post. BUT thank you for the example that Nef is talking about.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Alien Mind

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Alien Mind
Frankly I don't see why we should take american sports and put other countries ideas in them and be expected to LOVE it or be called a Xenophobia.

Btw, basketball was invented by a Canadian.

Do you want a cookie or something? Because i thought we were talking about football.

You missed the whole point of my post. BUT thank you for the example that Nef is talking about.

See if i don't agree with you then im a Xenophobia. Thanks for the example im talking about.

Xenophobia pretty much fits into everything ... its nothing new.

a lot of people just use it as a discrediting tactic against another group .... which is also Xenophobic

Xenophobia, is it really more prevalent in American policy, culture, society?

Could it be that America, generalized into a single group, is more guilty of arrogance, self-importance, or insensitivity than other (generalized) nations?

I have to agree that this country displays such traits from time to time; but I humbly submit that there are more extreme and more frequent cases of it elsewhere in the world as well; which leads me to postulate that it is a function of something other than the people, and is more likely a public relations tool.

There was a time when most citizens of America expected, demanded, and pretty much relied upon the factual and unbiased reporting of truth and fact from their press (in which for the sake of this post I include all media.) But since the marketing revolution inspired by Freud's nephew, and the establishment of the Madison Avenue marketing model, American's are now subject to a continuous campaign to be conditioned to think alike.

So the danger of media-supported bias is very real.

But I am a bit taken aback by the inference I draw that this ongoing effort to make America agree with a talking head celebrity is actually working on us. It appears to me to have been more effective in creating an image for America which all non-Americans are inclined to consider generally valid: namely, that we think we are better, that we think we should be in charge, that we believe if we disagree with something, that thing is wrong and we are right.

It feeds into the meme of the loud-mouthed brash American complaining that no one speaks English as he travels the world, that he considers all people not American as inferior or not worth the trouble to engage as a human being.

Yet, this is not only a callously broad generalization, it denies certain facts that contradict it. We are not the paradise of the world, and the precious few who would argue otherwise are generally not people with whom you or I would normally associate - nor whose opinion we would value as particularly relevant.

I have always felt that there is some bizarre mind-game being played at a global level. When I see news which involves the polling of random people in the world, I rarely see any overt 'love' for the American people (as a group). I constantly see the misbegotten words of celebrity personalities portrayed as having some weight in the evaluation of the nation as a whole. Most appallingly, I see the actions of particularly 'rogue' policy-makers and political people as 'representative' of the national mindset, even though we continually demonstrate how such people, declaring wars, prodding sovereign heads of state, pursuing unfathomable agendas, has nothing to do with the American people, whose voices are little more than background noise compared with the whims and desires of the corporate monsters who wrenched control from the people back in the days after Eisenhower.

I know the soccer reference was analogous, but I find it to be the irritant which may produce a pearl in this 'oyster' of an argument.

I suspect that were we so inclined, we could find such repugnant attitudes in people amongst any nation, culture, religion, or ideology. Even among our most beloved allies with whom we share a common language.

I can say without hesitation that not one of my acquaintances believes that the words spoken by the entertainers noted has much to do with existing reality, instead I see it a another nudge to keep alive yet another aspect of America which will keep her from either embracing, or being embraced by another nation.

With the recent BP fiasco in play, I cataloged numerous repeated instances of the media creating the impression that Americans were somehow mad at England. Dozens, if not score of people I spoke to ALL were vehemently pissed that such ignorant people were allowed to misrepresent them so (never once blaming the media for cherry-picking their 'commenter.')

Within days our European members were convinced that all Americans somehow had performed the mental gymnastics necessary to forget who was to blame, and that blaming someone was more important than solving the problem. The conspiratorial in me urges me to wonder why this meme was 'delivered' to Europe. I was certain that simply speaking with the members would make them see that America wants BP to be liable for it's actions, nothing more. But by then the pollsters and mathemagicians solidified the notions, convincing more and more Americans that they SHOULD be mad at the "Queen's" Oil company (I know, I know... but people believed what media had always told them - this is "British" Petroleum --- only now are they pulling back form that grotesque mischaracterization.

The antipathy these media types engender are taking us down a path full of illusions, I suspect that the media in your neck of the woods is just as likely to appreciate and capitalize on the ease with which some 'viewers' accept that Americans are this way, Muslims are that way, etc. etc. It certainly happens here.

Also, there is a distinct disconnect in the idea that all Americans are xenophobic, that they all have 'issues' and 'attitudes.' Most of us are not of the same culture, race, interests, or ideology as the people around us. It would be a miracle indeed if this country could ever again be so single-minded as to act and feel as a single nation in such a narrow context.

I cannot convince you that we are not xenophobic, nor would I expect to be able to do so, the real question becomes, is the reader prepared to accept that we may not be?

I suggest that the purpose of the author and editor of this article have very much made up their minds. The logical next question is, have they made up your mind too?

I live in New Mexico and we have a lot of Mexicans or those of Mexican descent here and they are going crazy over the World Cup. Most Americans are not and it really has nothing to do with xenophobia. Most Americans don't understand the game.

Most Americans don't understand hockey, either, but hockey is enormously popular in the northern states.

Painting all Americans with such a broad brush is senseless.

Glenn Beck made the analogy that Obama's policies are like the World Cup. Americans aren't buying it and all the window dressing in the world won't change that.

Gordon Liddy is Gordon Liddy and if you don't understand Gordon Liddy, then you won't understand anything he says.

Limbaugh was proven correct by this thread. Say anything negative or even clueless about soccer and you're going to have a fight on your hands, so it's better to say nothing.

So, a few conservative commentators make a few statements about soccer and draw some political correlations and we get an anti-American diatribe.

So, what's new?

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by centurion1211
America bashing is often SOP for that mod, unfortunately.

...SNIP...
Your failure to miss the point, and dismiss the thread so avidly is a perfect example of the kind of attitude I'm talking about, so thanks for reinforcing my point.

You're points =
1.) If you don't immerse yourself in world politics, you're a xenophobe.
2.) If you don't submit to the current trends of the majority of other nations, you're a xenophobe.
3.) If you're a conservative, you are a xenophobe because of the comments of ONE conservative person.

This all seems familiar. You don't happen to believe that opponents of Obama's policies are racists, do you?

reply to post by neformore

I think the U.S advanced or went as far as expected..IMO.. ?? I am still watching the World Cup. This is my first time and I enjoy it in the fact how they play two halves with no commercials!!! Except for halftime. Im learning as I watch and it is quite interesting. It's far more exciting than baseball. IMO. And the networks could learn a thing or two about excessive advertising or how to advertise without interupting a sport. Right??

Originally posted by Maxmars
I cannot convince you that we are not xenophobic, nor would I expect to be able to do so, the real question becomes, is the reader prepared to accept that we may not be?

Heres what I don't get.

I particularly referenced right wing US political media, and its influence on right wing politics, and the shaping of political thoughts, and expressed a concern that such xenophobic rhetoric may have a damaging effect on future generations of right wing US foreign policy.

At no point have I used the broader brush that all americans are xenophobes.

And yet people have decided - without recourse back to the OP - that somehow I am saying that.

If I wanted to say that all Americans were xenophobes, I'd have started a thread entitled "All American are Xenophobes". I'm a blunt person, I say what I mean.

I didn't call the thread that. I particularly referenced the article I quoted, and the right wing media. I even went so far as to explain that in my second post.

So let me make things clear.

I am concerned that the right-wing media in the US is acting in a particularly foolish manner that might affect future US foreign policy using a simple analogy and was hoping to have a discussion about it

Sadly, it seems people either don't get my point, or choose to deliberately distort it, for the sake of it. Hell, some of them can't even get past dissing football (soccer), let alone discuss the more salient point, which concerns me even more.

Originally posted by azguyblahblah
This all seems familiar. You don't happen to believe that opponents of Obama's policies are racists, do you?

No.

I DO think, however, that people who ask that kind of question have an agenda of their own that they want to push - reverse psychology and all that - attempting to be clever whilst not understanding that every US president has their good and bad points.

Funny you should mention familiarity though....

As the Republican that I am, I assure you that:

1. I am enjoying watching at least three games a week.

2. I like Ghana, Germany and The Netherlands

3. Im sad South Africa got kicked out so early

4. I REVERE Nelson Mandela

reply to post by neformore

As I keep saying, the US is not the world. The US is part of the world.

Methinks thou doth protest too much. If you keep saying this about the U.S., I suppose the valid question then becomes; what say you about Great Britain? France? Germany? Russia? China? Japan? North and South Korea? Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran...or is it just the U.S. that you keep speaking too? Don't you know there is a whole world out there outside of the U.S.?