$7-a-gallon gas?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


If there is cap and trade legislation, the $4 is not necessarily going into the oil companies' pockets. Some of that money might go towards the government in the form of pollution credits.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by XXXN3O

 

I am not quite sure what you are asking.

Here in the states, gas (or petrol as you call it) is relatively cheap because the taxes on it are very low. Currently there is cap and trade legislation going through US Congress. Cap and trade would effectively raise the price of gas.

You have answered my question. Thanks.

Tax hike it is then.

Thats gonna hit your lives hard with living expenses. Seems like the American people are facing it tough enough already from what I have read.

Save the planet one tax at a time.

This BP scenario is extremely convenient.



[edit on 18-6-2010 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by XXXN3O


The way the cap and trade legislation is set up is that the cap and trade program will be phased in over a few years to lessen the blow. It is not as if Americans are going to wake up and find the gas prices have doubled.

However, I cannot see Americans getting off their butt RIGHT NOW as I am speaking and preparing for cap and trade. Cities and states are not investing in public transport. In fact, in my town they are making a major highway to accommodate more cars rather than improving the trolley system. People are still buying big cars.

So at the end of the day, if cap and trade kills America, it is not because there is anything wrong with cap and trade. Cap and trade will kill America because there is something wrong with America. In many ways, its people do not want to enter the 21st century.

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
reply to post by SWCCFAN

 

Because of 7$ gas?!?

I'd think people were ready to revolt over the loss of civil liberties, and the merger with corporations that has turned us into America Inc.

We're talking about Americans here (sez a fellow American). We're a lot more likely to revolt over something that hurts our pocketbooks than something that erodes our civil liberties.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
I am going to buy a golf cart.
It runs on batteries.
Then I'm gonna put a cardboard sign
on the rear bumper which reads:

[snip] OIL COMPANIES !!!

Who's with me ???


Im with you all the way! two thumbs up and many stars if I could

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by 12m8keall2c]

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


Well over here in the UK for example...

Gas prices are cheaper in cities, people in cities can buy parking permits in certain areas that are cheaper, cities have ample public transport, trains and bicycle lanes, taxi lanes (taxi's are cheap)

Gas prices are more expensive the further you go from a city, public transport is filled with broken journey links, no trains nearby, no bicycle lanes, no taxi lanes (taxis cost four times as much as in cities)

Jobs are mostly in the cities.

Cities are gridlocked with cars from city dwellers driving into work, because its cheaper fuel, cheaper parking, people outside the cities can hardly make it in on time and can barely afford to run a car to their jobs as its so expensive. Cant get into work without a car because theres pathetic public transport services outside of cities.

The whole way it should be done is completely upside down and im just trying to show how it can go wrong because its just wrong in the UK or at least where I come from within the UK. I understand why it is like this however and it is because the private sector runs the services, as long as that continues it will only get worse because of the profit motive.

Way I see it, America is a gigantic area of land, each state is a massive piece of land on its own, this would have to be done extremely well for it to work out and if past performance is anything to go by in history. I can see why some are nervous. Thats just looking at it as it is rather than any conspiritorial angle etc.

If theres no investment like you are suggesting, its going to be hellish.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by XXXN3O


America is the opposite in that it is largely suburban sprawl. People work in the cities, but it is not uncommon for people to drive over 50 miles round trip in a large SUV to go to work. Many Americans can afford to do this because gas is cheap.

This of course leads to more pollution, more wars over oil, and other bad things.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by XXXN3O

 

America is the opposite in that it is largely suburban sprawl. People work in the cities, but it is not uncommon for people to drive over 50 miles round trip in a large SUV to go to work. Many Americans can afford to do this because gas is cheap.

This of course leads to more pollution, more wars over oil, and other bad things.

Basically its going to cut people back even further with more expense or even off from there jobs if they have one.

Unless of course you live near your work.

Thats what im getting from what you are saying?

I understand where you are coming from with the environment but in a money based society, people need money to eat. Its either war or death it seems looking at it in a broad sense if this way we live is to continue. After the people who need to take the long journeys are stopped. Soon anyone with a car will be stopped. Then public transport will be stopped. Where do you stop?

Im not trying to be awkward, im just showing how profit motives dont work.

It seems to me that you appoint a person in power who puts ear plugs in to the public and takes them out for businesses with money these days. They would be as well shutting the whole lot down instead of trying to kid everyone that its working.

Who am I kidding anyways, im just joe public and i cant beat earplugs with my voice.



[edit on 18-6-2010 by XXXN3O]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


And if other countries are paying that much, why shouldn't we?

We are not those other countries. How hard is that for people like you to understand?

OH well, so much for the peanut gallery, on to things...

I live an an oil producing region, the whole cap and trade thing will make a lot of these people broke, cause job losses, and will adversely effect my business. It's not a good thing for anybody involved whether or not they are producers, consumers, or small businessmen.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by SpacePunk]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It's an Op Ed...

Obama isn't raising gas to $7 a gallon.

A Harvard study estimates that would happen with Obama's "global warming agenda". It's a guess.

Go ahead and freak out about it, but it's an opinion piece.

And if other countries are paying that much, why shouldn't we?

You're joking, right? We want the nation's economy to continue to recover, not to take a nose-dive! At $4 a gallon a couple of years ago this nation was crippled. You don't remember the hardships people suffered, not being able to afford to drive to work, the costs of goods going up because the trucking industry was feeling the pinch, the airline industry losing money hand over fist, etc. You don't remember when all of that happened? $7 a gallon gas would be surest way to ruin this nation's economy right now. Those who cannot telecommute to work their jobs would not be able to afford to drive, which would cause many mid size and small businesses to fail. Bus fares would increase by a large margin. The price of goods would double due to inflation caused by high fuel costs in logistics. Flying would only be affordable to the upper class. There would be mass layoffs as corporations cut spending to make ends meet because of the fuel costs. The price of plastics would skyrocket and plastics make up almost everything we use today. Oil is such a fixture of our lives that a change to renewable energy could not happen quickly. It would take decades to make the switch. The people would riot and demand installing a government that would let us drill not only closer to shore, but on domestic land that is currently locked for drilling by liberal Democrats. That isn't really what you want, is it?

Originally posted by SpacePunk

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


And if other countries are paying that much, why shouldn't we?

We are not those other countries. How hard is that for people like you to understand?

I have to admit.

It sounds like the American government is putting a gun to the head of its citizens almost if this is happening. If the country depends on gas for essential things for its people and essential businesses such as food etc.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by XXXN3O]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
A perfect example. I don't think the US would go under if we stopped supporting NASCAR...

Quick, run!! That line of thinking in some NASCAR popular states will get you tarred and feathered!!

Originally posted by riiver

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
reply to post by SWCCFAN

 

Because of 7$ gas?!?

I'd think people were ready to revolt over the loss of civil liberties, and the merger with corporations that has turned us into America Inc.

We're talking about Americans here (sez a fellow American). We're a lot more likely to revolt over something that hurts our pocketbooks than something that erodes our civil liberties.

When Civil unrest begins due to expedentialy increased cost of living the government will be forced to react to the civil unrest by declaring martial law. Martial Law is loss of all civil liberties and will be the launch point for many Americans.

We're talking about Americans here (sez a fellow American). We're a lot more likely to revolt over something that hurts our pocketbooks than something that erodes our civil liberties.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by SWCCFAN]

[edit on 18-6-2010 by SWCCFAN]

reply to post by XXXN3O


You are working off the assumption people must travel over 50 miles a day to work in their own cars. This is not so.

People can start moving back into the city centers. Public transit infrastructure can be expanded.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
You are working off the assumption people must travel over 50 miles a day to work in their own cars. This is not so.

People can start moving back into the city centers. Public transit infrastructure can be expanded.

The conspiracy theorist in me says, "Yeah, we've got all the trouble makers in the same place. Easy."

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by XXXN3O

 

You are working off the assumption people must travel over 50 miles a day to work in their own cars. This is not so.

People can start moving back into the city centers. Public transit infrastructure can be expanded.

If they have enough cash that would be true both people and state governments (infrastructure)

If your a person, dont and cannot move house right now for whatever reason, your left out. If your in the right place at the right time, your going to pull through it.

Thats the assumption im working from unless these words are true...



Im hearing what your saying of course but what about food haulage as another example, prices will skyrocket.

Sounds like a daft idea to me to put it plain and simple. Save the earth and leave a trail of sick, malnourished, poor, weak and even dead people in your wake. Might seem like im being a little dramatic there but in the longer term it becomes obvious.



[edit on 18-6-2010 by XXXN3O]

You know...My little girl came up to me earlier and said "mommy, can I have a pony?" I told her "You know...with the way things are in the world right now...a pony isn't a bad idea." Then we both looked at my husband and said.."Daddy, can we have a pony?"

reply to post by XXXN3O


Again, it will take a few years for cap and trade to be fully implemented if it is passed. It is not as if people who live way out in the boondocks need to move right now. However, it would be wise to do so.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by XXXN3O

 

Again, it will take a few years for cap and trade to be fully implemented if it is passed. It is not as if people who live way out in the boondocks need to move right now. However, it would be wise to do so.

Well, I wish anyone from the states good luck with the times to come including yourself.

Im off for the night, good chatting to you.

Thanks for clearing some of my questions up chief.



[edit on 18-6-2010 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by ErEhWoN


Well, I work really hard for my money in a stressful job, and when I come home, in my F-150 to my three acre place outside of nasty, crowded, stinky Houston, Texas, I want to enjoy my horses, cats, pond, chickens, ducks, garden, peace and quiet.

I could sell everything, dump the animals who-knows-where, move into a little box in the city, so close to my neighbors I could hear their toilet flush, and travel on the light rail line, but I'd literally rather be dead. All I would have in my life would be my job, and that is no kind of life for me at all.

I do ride a bus and light rail line part of the way to and from work.

Seven dollar per gallon gas would drive inflation right through the roof. It would be a domino effect. So many things in the U.S. are dependent on oil and you are not going to change that over night. I'm not saying this is right, but that is the way it is.

Where I live there used to be crops such as rice and soy beans grown close by. Now, there is nothing. If local farming were made profitable, it could sure save the fuel it takes to haul vegetables and grains from California to Texas.