Should We Believe Bob Lazar?

reply to post by Boomer1941


As equally a part of it as Bob Lazar. Per your information on Glenn Campbell. He made the mistake most men make and got married.
Rumour has it marriage and ufo/secret gov't base adventures don't coincide well with each other.

Ive never believed Lazar. It just seemed a little too convineant that he had all this information. although he did go public with his knowledge, there have been no consequences from it.

there have been many other people that attempted or have gotten information revealed only to be harrassed by he IRS, loosing all income, and in some cases even getting their houses broken into and media storage equipment dissappearing.

but nonoe of that has happened to him....why is that?

I was unsure of BL. But not George Knapp. What I'm still pondering is; was BL and his job a design to begin acclimatizing Americans to UFO Reality?

My point for the secrecy has always and continues to be of the religious self-control we have been brought up to believe, eg 10 Commandments.

Losing that faith through our being a planted and genetically induced advancing humanoid race might well be the loss of self controls based on the Bible as it's presently known toward sinners.

Decoy

Originally posted by ghostryder21 although he did go public with his knowledge, there have been no consequences from it.

Lets see... he has been ridiculed, his history erased, hassled by the Feds for selling sulfur across state lines, had the ATF raid his house with guns because the Consumer Protection Agency(Toaster Police) claimed he was selling materials to make illegal fireworks.... His plans to sell Hydrogen sells was stopped and dragged through court..

Hmm no consequences...

And yet through it all he sticks to his story...

AND he stepped out of the UFO circuit a long time ago.

reply to post by zorgon


I thought he was raided because he had a supply of uranium or something similar? For one of his businesses?

Originally posted by Marrr
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

And then another important thing, if Bob Lazar did not worked where he said he was, working on these crafts at groom lake, how then was he able to know exactly when and where there would be a test fly of one of those a crafts?

As stated earlier. If he did work at Los Alamos, it is not entirely impossible that he was part of or overheard a discussion from other scientists who had worked at Area 51. Considering the creme ala creme work at Los Alamos, it is possible some of these scientists/engineers previously worked a few projects at Area 51 and were privy to information such as test flight schedules, etc.
UFO Mechanic Bob Lazar could have easily overheard a discussion of advanced test aircraft and inquired more and go from there.
Hell, he could've driven by on the damn highway and seen them for crying out loud and came back a week later at the same time to investigate further.

Well, in this interview John Lear himself said that Lazar first worked at Los Alamos and after that he started to work at Area 51 and because of that it could be very well possible to me that he found out all of the things he did speak himself and not necessary due overhearing others.

projectcamelot.org...

Originally posted by zorgon
Too bad you can't talk to him face to face... you might get a different point of view

Indeed, few of us have had the luxury of talking to him face to face so it is interesting to read your observations on Bob Lazar. I am in no position to judge the validity of his claims - i have never met him.

I was interested to read this retrospective comment from a researcher (whom i feel is pretty trustworthy), Timothy Good...

"Lazar claimed to be a nuclear physicist. He isn't. However, he is a talented engineer and launches his own rockets and drives and maintains a jet-powered car (or used to). Definitely something odd seems to have happened to him, but I remain dubious about some of his claims. Perhaps he was exposed to S-4 (which does, or did, exist) in case he came up with some original ideas. Or it could have been an experiment to test public reaction, knowing that he would tell the media. I just don't know. It's important to bear in mind that Lazar was drugged on several occasions by the security personnel at S-4. I have no idea what’s going on there now."

(Quoted from this website - www.timothygood.co.uk...)

I think that this view pretty much echoes my own sentiments but, seeing as you are posting on this thread, i couldnt let the opportunity pass to pick your brains on the subject!

Do you believe all of Bob Lazars claims? Or do you think it is a bit of fact mixed with fiction? Have you heard his story from 'the horses mouth', so to speak?

I stick to my thoughts that Bob may have been in the facility that he talks about, but not necessarily in the position that he states, more of an office manager of sorts that saw some classified documentation, committed it to memory and came forth with his stories. He thought it would sound better coming from an actual tech instead of office manager, so this is the part of the story that was and is still is fabricated.

I do not know Bob or have ever talked to him, if I could there are so many questions I would ask that could change my mind, but since I probably will never get a chance to talk to him this is currently my stance, although Zargon does make some interesting arguments that have me possibly rethinking my stance a little, good to see him back from his “vacation” and posting again, even though we don’t always see eye to eye.

We should get Bob on this board or maybe try to contact his son on this board

Originally posted by Silver Star
Do you believe all of Bob Lazars claims? Or do you think it is a bit of fact mixed with fiction? Have you heard his story from 'the horses mouth', so to speak?

yes I have heard it first hand... I also have a copy of the full interview he did with George Knapp. We have been trying to get that released but no go so far.

Thing about Bob's story is there isn't a whole lot of stories but just the one big one about S4 and the saucer tech.

One of my biggest beefs with many of the 'insiders' going on the UFO circuit is that they always have new stories. Well considering how compartmentalised everything is, it seems logical that an insider would have one piece of the puzzle... the one he worked on

John has a model of the drive system... the element 115 has now been proven as possible, even created in minute quantities in a lab.

What is really funny to me is that people, believers and especially skeptics come to ATS to find exactly such info as Bob gave us, yet when they do, they get ripped apart, ridiculed and made the laughing stock by media.

Bob washed his hands of all this long ago, though he did call C2C last time John was on and publicly apologized to John about him doubting there was water on the moon.

Maybe if your ever in Vegas I can run that video for you

One thing is certain, Bob doesn't really care if you believe him or not. I wish I had met them 20 years ago when the Desert blasts were being done...

Originally posted by zorgon
Lets see... he has been ridiculed, his history erased, hassled by the Feds for selling sulfur across state lines, had the ATF raid his house with guns because the Consumer Protection Agency(Toaster Police) claimed he was selling materials to make illegal fireworks.... His plans to sell Hydrogen cells was stopped and dragged through court..

Well, there's being targeted for retribution by mysterious black forces and there's being an idiot for being a relatively high-profile person dabbling in things like high explosives close to the fuzzy edge of legality. Lazar is particularly adept at stepping on his own weenie, as it were. I don't know if that gives him or more credibility, or less.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by Blue Shift]

Originally posted by zorgon
John has a model of the drive system... the element 115 has now been proven as possible, even created in minute quantities in a lab.

So what? Element 115 has been predicted to exist long before Lazar came out with his story. Many other synthetic elements, many higher than 115, have been predicted to exist for a long time.

Yes, element 115 (ununpentium) has been synthesized by scientists, but that doesn't mean it even has the proprieties or can be used in the way Lazar claims.

I fail to see how the fact that element 115 has been, in your words, ‘proven as possible’ give any more credence to Lazar claims. They are two separate issues.

Originally posted by Boomer1941
The last interview I heard with George Knapp and John Lear, Lear stated Lazar had gone back to work on Black Projects for the Federal Government. He also said Lazar is talking very little to him because of Security Oath constraints and he says he's glad to be back. In reality Lazar cares less what rumors have been spread or what anyone thinks of him, he's always wanted to be left alone. You've never seen and Lazar Books on the NYT Best Seller list or any movie deals have you...lol I don't remember the exact story on Campbell, he was a big shooter in the UFO arena at one time and then there was a series of events that occurred in his life as I remember that discredited him badly, he's not a major player anymore.

So let's look at this logically.. if the government was so worried about letting the "alien secret" out then why would they rehire Lazar which makes his story more credible?

The answer is that that makes no sense.. but it perfectly matches my claims that Lazar is a disinfo agent because this is what they WANT us to believe is that all these amazing craft we see are aliens and not government craft.

I believe that the people doing this are really trying to fool people within the government and military as much as anyone else.

Look at that interview with the Lockheed engineer who said someone he knows told him they shot down an alien craft at Roswell. I think this was a lie to keep this tech secret from people in the government.

That famous quote from Ronald Reagan where he says that bit about society joining together against one common enemy? Same thing. They probably fed him the same line of BS. Same with JFK who people claim acted as if he believed in some alien coverup.

It was never aliens.. if there was ever anyone dangerous it was Nazis in these flying saucers first seen in Washington state.. then seen at Roswell and even flying over the White House.

And we probably got that tech from the German scientists at the end of WWII and developed it ourselves over time.

so i was wrong and i apologize, there has been some things that have happened to him on account for this. but can you honestly say that someone that used to work for A51 AND spilled secrets about the base can still be walking and breathing? our government has killed people for less than this.

they can easily make it look like an accident or just relocate him. i still say he is part of disinfo.

reply to post by hornum


@ one point bob laser himself said that the govt. wiped out his idenity for being a whistelblower. he seems to be a pretty serious type of guy. ask yourself what at all would he gain from this disclosure? seems like he either has more to loose or already pretty much lost it all!!

reply to post by hornum


@ one point bob laser himself said that the govt. wiped out his idenity for being a whistelblower. he seems to be a pretty serious type of guy. ask yourself what at all would he gain from this disclosure? seems like he either has more to loose or already pretty much lost it all!!

Originally posted by jazabel51
@ one point bob laser himself said that the govt. wiped out his idenity for being a whistelblower. he seems to be a pretty serious type of guy. ask yourself what at all would he gain from this disclosure?

If you're a whistleblower or you got a shady past your chances of getting a security clearance to work on classified Government projects aren't good to say the least.

So why don't you ask yourself why a guy whose identity has been ‘wiped out’ and has allegedly revealed secrets about classified programs continues doing work for the Government, and classified work at that, according to the website of his company.

Lazar is an interesting case study, that is for sure.

On one hand, he seems to have fibbed or at least stretched the truth regarding his past and education.

On the other hand, he demonstrated intimate knowledge of the facility, and knowledge of scheduled tests.

There's evidence for both sides of the story (he's lying, or he's telling the truth). So, then you have to kind of go with your gut. My gut is telling me that he was sincere, but also has a bit of an ego, and fibbed a bit to enhance the story. So, we are left with not knowing just how much to believe. I do think he was hired by EG&G as a consultant, and spent some time in S-4. Whether he worked on alien craft, who can tell?

As for the element, Lazar stated the alien version of this was stable, unlike our synthesized version. Not saying this is the deal, just what he stated in a few interviews, etc.

As has been said, Lazar has distanced himself from the whole subject (but still maintains he told the truth), and has no interest in UFOlogy these days it seems.

Personally, I wish him all the best, he seems like a decent guy, and after having a bit of a rough go at things, seems to be finally happy...

[edit on 31-8-2010 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Gazrok
On the other hand, he demonstrated intimate knowledge of the facility, and knowledge of scheduled tests. ...
There's evidence for both sides of the story (he's lying, or he's telling the truth).

I do agree with you Gazrok that Lazar demonstrated knowledge of the facility but the corroboration came mostly, if not all, from other ‘insiders’ that talked to George Knapp before the Lazar story came out. This is an important detail. And this — among other things — makes me suspect Lazar was part of a disinformation operation.

Disinformation operations are planned and executed in advance as time is required for the enemy to piece together the elements and parts of a story, which were conveyed piece by piece, in order to form the picture you want your enemy to, not only be looking at, but also, believing it to be real. Barton Whaley, a military-political deception theorist, said “the ultimate goal of deception is to make the adversary quite certain, very decisive, and wrong.”

Last minute stories are harder to be accepted without raising suspicion. And the more one works at finding the information the more one believes it to be true. Charles Cruickshank, who wrote ‘Deception in World War II,’ stated “the perfect deception plan is like a jigsaw puzzle. Pieces of the information are allowed to reach the adversary in such a way as to convince him that he has discovered them by accident.” This is true with the Lazar story, but also with many other cases in ufology, like the MJ12 documents.

Whether Lazar participated voluntarily or not, I don't know, but it would explain why there is, as you say, ‘evidence for both sides of the story,’ as disinformation is always a mix of truths and lies. The important questions for me now are not whether Lazar was telling the truth or not, but what was accomplished by this operation — if this was indeed a deception — and why.

One of the most noticeable and visible results, at least for us civilians, is that the Lazar story put Area 51 on the map. People and news crews from, literally, all around the world were interested in Area 51. Why would they shoot themselves on the foot like that by attracting so much attention to a base the Government tried so hard to keep hidden from the public? My suspicion is that this was more than an operation to muddy the waters, or target the UFO research community specifically, it might have been a counterintelligence operation.

Maybe classified details of the base or some project had been leaked or stolen and intelligence was trying to identify the guilty parties or do a little, as it's known in intelligence parlance, perception management and minimize damages of such a breach. Maybe they wanted to smoke someone out. Maybe they were setting a trap and waiting to see who would bite — a lot of foreign people did go poking around and videotaping and taking photographs of the area, were some of them foreign assets?

It's interesting to consider that the timing of all these insiders, including Lazar, telling their story to George Knapp seems to coincide with the B2 ceasing testing at Groom Lake. And in the summer of 1987 the New York Times reported that “the Northrop Corporation is unable to account for 780 classified documents from its Stealth bomber program, according to a draft Congressional study that generally commends the company for improving its procedures.”

Maybe it's just coincidence. Or maybe, just maybe, this is about more than just a guy telling a story about UFOs and aliens.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by Spangler]

I understand there is flaws in Lazar's story. But remember in a court DNA convicts the criminal regardless of any other evidence presented. Bob has the proof equivalant to presenting DNA. One: He took several witnesses out to the desert to view a real flying saucer, and he video taped it, and the witnesses were credible (that is impossible for anyone to do that, ask Stanton Friedman to take you to the desert to video tape a UFO hovering making right angle turns). Two: Like it or not Bob passed the lie detector test and never failed a test (e-mail George Knapp he was there and he said he passed). Three: How did Bob Lazar know the name Mike Thigpen? The focus should be on searching for his co-workers, treating them like missing persons, talking to every family member until the truth is found. According to Bob Lazar there were 22 people employed at S-4. On the Art Bell Show he named five of them. Dennis Mariani, Barry Castillo, Mr. Hayes, Mr. Jones, and a female Renee (Last name unknown). George Knapp and others have attempted to locate his coworkers. A Dennis Mariani located in California who died, survived by his daughter, is believed by some to be Bob's Supervisor. There has to be a way to find them. They all worked for the United State Department of Naval Intelligence during 1988 to 1989. They are between 45 to 70 years old. They went to work from the EG&G building at McCarran airport in Las Vegas and must have records in Nevada and/or California.