Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by DangerDeath

 

Yes, there is first hand testimony , but there is no

First shooting then boarding

He does not say that Israelis started to shoot before they boarded. You do.

Yes. That's what I say. So what? I can say.

"Moments later, we heard detonations and then soldiers from helicopters above us dropped down on board.

Detonations? Not? Athens' dog Kennellos barked? Crew performing fireworks for Memorial Day?

A witness from the other ship says:

Aris Papadokostopoulos was aboard the Free Mediterranean, travelling behind the Mavi Marmara and carrying mainly Greek and Swedish activists. "The Turkish ship [the Mavi Marmara] was in front of us... on which there was a terrible raid from the air and from the sea and from everywhere, with shooting.

terrible raid from the air and from the sea and from everywhere, with shooting


Here is the link again. Read the whole article, please.

news.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by DangerDeath


Yes there was shooting. there are people killed. That i know. You however claim that shooting started before Israeli soldiers were attacked. Who says it? You can play with words of scared traumatized people as you like - but they do not say that.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by DangerDeath

 

Yes there was shooting. there are people killed. That i know. You however claim that shooting started before Israeli soldiers were attacked. Who says it? You can play with words of scared traumatized people as you like - but they do not say that.

Israeli soldiers were attacked before boarding? How would that be possible?
What were they scared from, traumatized? They were born traumatized?




[edit on 1-6-2010 by DangerDeath]

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by DangerDeath

 

Yes there was shooting. there are people killed. That i know. You however claim that shooting started before Israeli soldiers were attacked. Who says it? You can play with words of scared traumatized people as you like - but they do not say that.

Hanin Zoabi, a member of the Israeli parliament, was on board the Miva Marmara, the ship that was the scene of the confrontation between activists and Israeli soldiers. The Israeli Navy fired on the ships five minutes before commandos descended from ropes that dangled from helicopters, Zoabi said during a news conference in Nazareth, Israel. She said passengers on board the ship were unarmed.

Actually one of your fellow Israeli's says so. She was on board the Miva Marmara at the time of the confrontation.

Zoabi said the military operation lasted about an hour and that she saw five dead bodies in that time.

So tell me which communist/terrorist/bed wetter list is Mz. Zoabi on?

She also says she was smashed in the head rammed to the floor, hooded and handcuffed and had her head stepped on while being handcuffed by an Israeli Soldier.

Are we to believe members of your nation's own parliment are not to believed?

Should we only be listening to people who weren't there?

Or should we simply just be watching edited videos where events are properly captioned for us, and taken out of sequence and shown out of context?

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by DangerDeath

 

Yes there was shooting. there are people killed. That i know. You however claim that shooting started before Israeli soldiers were attacked. Who says it? You can play with words of scared traumatized people as you like - but they do not say that.

They may not have "shot bullets" but if they are releasing teargas and such it's entirely possible that they were "shooting" these canisters. I saw a video earlier where you can DEF hear the thud of something being fire and it looks like the IDF commando has a Grenade Launcher of some sort in his hand.

So although they may not have "fire bullets" as they came into the vessel. They were most definitely firing tear gas and their are also other reports of flashbangs. Now I don't know about you but when every pore on yer skin is burning, yer eyes are blinded by intense white light, and you can't hear CRAP....I'm going to grab the closest thing I can to me and start swinging.....

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Why do you keep trying to muddy the waters ?

It was all very well documented live as it happened and right here in this thread too....And now as we are hearing backed up by the people who were there.

Israel has gone Rogue, Your defence of that regime is futile and all you will succeed in doing is inflaming those who know the truth...Making more enemies for your state.

The only thing Israel can do now is apologise for a terrible mistake using armed special forces, When in all honesty this should have been a job for the Israeli Coastguard.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by ken10]

Originally posted by ElijahWan

So although they may not have "fire bullets" as they came into the vessel. They were most definitely firing tear gas and their are also other reports of flashbangs. Now I don't know about you but when every pore on yer skin is burning, yer eyes are blinded by intense white light, and you can't hear CRAP....I'm going to grab the closest thing I can to me and start swinging.....

And don't forget that the crew had NO idea as to what the shooting sounds were.

No wonder these people armed themselves, they probably all expected to be executed.

reply to post by ElijahWan


Actually a Jewish Girl from New York City lost an eye today in Gaza protesting when an Israeli soldier fired a tear gas canister at her head.

The truth is that the myth of the Israeli soldier being highly trained and disciplined is a myth.

Video account after video account shows confused uncertain and often frightened heavily armed soldiers with no situational awareness or command presence simply acting out sadistically when ever the impulse hits them.

Whether it's shooting five year olds point blank in the head with rubber bullets from a few feet away or a woman with a tear gas cannister in the eye from a few feet away, they are little more than armed street gangs acting out fantasies of gratuitous violence without compunction or remorse and then know to make jokes of killing pregnant women and killing two birds with one stone and emblazoning it on T-shirts they sell to their fellow soldiers for a few bucks.

They represent the worst of what a citizen soldier could represent.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Those elite soldiers are always like that. They never fight the real enemy, always the weak and unarmed. And they are all promised they will not be punished for their crimes. That makes them perfect killing machines. Conditioning...

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


news.bbc.co.uk...

NORMAN PAECH, GERMANY

"Moments later, we heard detonations and then soldiers from helicopters above us dropped down on board.

"The soldiers were all masked, carrying big guns and were extremely brutal."

--

ARIS PAPADOKOSTOPOULOS, GREECE

""The Turkish ship [the Mavi Marmara] was in front of us... on which there was a terrible raid from the air and from the sea and from everywhere, with shooting. "

--

stopwar.org.uk...

The Israeli Navy fired on the ships five minutes before commandos descended from ropes that dangled from helicopters, Zoabi said during a press conference in Nazareth, Israel. She said passengers on board the ship were unarmed.

SO.... The people onboard heard shootings and detonations BEFORE armed commandos jumped board and started beating people. The people then retaliated. Both parties got hurt and some members of the crew got shot.

It seems to be that almost anybody i know would have tried to defend their friends, colleagues and companions.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Local media does not report it. So i had no idea about that. I do not think that she is lying but i do assume that it was warning shots by Israeli ships that were not aimed at aid fleet. Since we both know that on 5 other ships there are no dead or wounded.
And of course the natural thing to do for person interested in peace after hearing fire from ships is to take a metal rode or knife and go after soldier with weapons. As on other 5 ships.

"Israel attacked".
That is key to this whole entire thing.
Israel attacked the ships with highly trained soldiers.
Israel attacked the ships.
Israeli troops attacked the ships.
Who attacked the ships?
Israel attacked the ships.
Did the people on the ships attack the IDF?
No, because Israel was attacking the ships.
The people on the ships, if they used force at all, were defending themselves.
The people on the ship were DEFENDING THEMSELVES.
Israel attacked and killed.
The people on the ship defended and wounded some.

Who were the attackers in international waters? The people on the ship who were anchored for the night, waiting for daylight to continue the journey? Or the IDF of Israel, who trained all week long to launch an attack on the flotilla vessels?

Who is responsible for the killed and wounded? The people on the ship trying to bring aid to Gaza who were stopped for the night? Or the IDF who launched/initiated the assault with stormtroopers in the middle of the night?

Who was justified in their actions? The illegal attackers with full combat gear? Or the defenders with sticks and stones?

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Local media does not report it. So i had no idea about that. I do not think that she is lying but i do assume that it was warning shots by Israeli ships that were not aimed at aid fleet. Since we both know that on 5 other ships there are no dead or wounded.
And of course the natural thing to do for person interested in peace after hearing fire from ships is to take a metal rode or knife and go after soldier with weapons. As on other 5 ships.

No... The natural thing to when in the heat of confusion, tear gas , explosions, beatings and assaults is to try and DEFEND yourself.

Unless of course its you. Then you'd no doubt just grin inanely before being shot.

The protestors weren't innocent in this. From Huffington Post:

During the boarding of the ships, the demonstrators onboard attacked the IDF Naval personnel with live fire and light weaponry including knives and clubs. Additionally one of the weapons used was grabbed from an IDF soldier. The demonstrators had clearly prepared their weapons in advance for this specific purpose. (www.huffingtonpost.com...)

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Local media does not report it. So i had no idea about that. I do not think that she is lying but i do assume that it was warning shots by Israeli ships that were not aimed at aid fleet. Since we both know that on 5 other ships there are no dead or wounded.
And of course the natural thing to do for person interested in peace after hearing fire from ships is to take a metal rode or knife and go after soldier with weapons. As on other 5 ships.

I'm staring to wonder in what order these ships were boarded... Perhaps they were trying to make a 'statement' with the first boat in line.

113 pages and the same stuff on every page and the same arguing LOL. You guys havent figured it out yet???

[edit on 1-6-2010 by princeofpeace]

reply to post by black cat


They had weapons (poles, bits of wood, makeshift clubs)

BECAUSE

according to NUMEROUS EYE WITNESS SOURCES on board - they had heard explosions and gun fire moments before the commandos descended.

They were panicking and it was self defence.

And i'm very happy to know that an Israeli solider was thrown over board - you have cheered up my evening quite nicely.

Kudos to those guys who chucked him off the edge.

reply to post by princeofpeace


Kindly explain then. I'm all ears.

Please don't insult us all - we are having a hard time going through literally hundreds of links and discussions ASWELL as holding our own against the numerous 'new members'.

But yeah, i'd be grateful if you show me some revelations, that is why we are here

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Those elite soldiers are always like that. They never fight the real enemy, always the weak and unarmed. And they are all promised they will not be punished for their crimes. That makes them perfect killing machines. Conditioning...

What a load of crap!

How dare you generalise with such ignorance.

You see, too happy with this

US hails 'death' of al-Qaeda chief Mustafa Abu al-Yazid


to be unhappy with

THAT

(you know what)

Celebrating