Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Skellon has been on here since this morning - eagerly trying to push some twisted agenda.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Wonder how much he/she is getting paid?

What supremely idiotic, arrogant and lazy thinking.

Yes, I am sure people do not have jobs, families, a need to eat or a life away from their computer. No, their absence in a forum must have sinister connotations.

Same goes for anyone who disagrees with you. You must not think there is such thing as genuine disagreement; anyone who disagrees must be getting paid to do so. And that must be true of interest and passion; only you and those that agree with you are allow them, you have a monopoly.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Even when dozens of members who SAW the original footage and first started getting the eye witness events and despite the fact that even the MSM are doubting Israel's motives and tactics , He/she is still determined to stick up for Israel.

Yes, there are plenty of members claiming they saw this footage, but thus far have been unable to produce it.

Tell us, Mr-Lizard and Dock9, how much are you getting paid to be here?

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by black cat

 

They had weapons (poles, bits of wood, makeshift clubs)

BECAUSE

according to NUMEROUS EYE WITNESS SOURCES on board - they had heard explosions and gun fire moments before the commandos descended.

They were panicking and it was self defence.

And i'm very happy to know that an Israeli solider was thrown over board - you have cheered up my evening quite nicely.

Kudos to those guys who chucked him off the edge.

To me, it looks like he is pushed over and falls 3-4 feet down into the lifeboat. Not quite deadly, nor overboard, but good fuel for sensationalism.

Originally posted by black cat
The protestors weren't innocent in this. From Huffington Post:

Additionally one of the weapons used was grabbed from an IDF soldier. The demonstrators had clearly prepared their weapons in advance for this specific purpose. (www.huffingtonpost.com...)

HAHAHAHA Special Forces losing their weapons to activists? Well- trained....US tax-dollars at work right there.... As for the bit about "clearly prepared their weapons in advance?" To do what? DEFEND THEMSELVES from a boarding party of PIRATES in INTERNATIONAL WATERS. Like seriously I don't think a single pro-Israeli defender of this murderous act wants to hear the truth but THAT IS THE TRUTH.

I would defend myself with sticks, stones, and anything I could find if armed troops were boarding my ship firing flashbangs, Tear Gax, mace-paintballs, and other potentially lethal weapons. There is 0 justification for this. It was an ILLEGAL blockade that is NOT recognized by the UN because Israel won't declare themselves an occupying force....

Dude you can't have your cake and eat it too....

Why do you keep trying to muddy the waters ?

Muddy water? I am sorry but i do not have to agree with "facts" that did not happen.
Because i happen to not like lies.
The situation as it was (at least as i understand it)
Israelis boarded 6 ships, on one ship commando soldiers without any appropriate gear or training met unexpected heavy resistance and then they killed 9 (or 15) people. This is bad by itself.
But here are people who start to make it even worse by claiming that Israelis shot first at the ship and killed someone even before the fight during boarding started. This is to clear up people who attacked soldiers with metal bars and knifes FIRST. And this is not supported by any one who was there. You think that it is not important?
Though again, i did not hear about Israeli shots 5 minutes before landing. However if there were wounded or killed already then i am sure that even people in their own cabins would know about it. 5 minutes is long time and there will be cries for medical help.

Originally posted by Skellon

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Those elite soldiers are always like that. They never fight the real enemy, always the weak and unarmed. And they are all promised they will not be punished for their crimes. That makes them perfect killing machines. Conditioning...

What a load of crap!

How dare you generalise with such ignorance.

Probaby the same type of generalized ignorance that leads to the blockading of an entire people by another people.

Israel is guilty of collective punishment through the blockade which is a violation of International Law all in and of itself.

Every man woman and child in Gaza is lumped together in the same figurative boat and punished collective through a generalization.

Such ignorance indeed.

Originally posted by Skellon

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Those elite soldiers are always like that. They never fight the real enemy, always the weak and unarmed. And they are all promised they will not be punished for their crimes. That makes them perfect killing machines. Conditioning...

What a load of crap!

How dare you generalise with such ignorance.

I don't generalize.

It has been empirically proven.

Criminals are recruited, promised freedom from "jail" and "punishment" and then trained (conditioned) to cause atrocities so the warring parties can never again trust each other, so that one nation will hate the other nation, class the other class, race the other race, and so on.

That's how it works everywhere in the world. I'm not generalizing

That women on the ship was hit in the head, brought down, stepped on her head while handcuffed. Same conditioning I saw elsewhere, or heard about.



[edit on 1-6-2010 by DangerDeath]

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

 

news.bbc.co.uk...

NORMAN PAECH, GERMANY

"Moments later, we heard detonations and then soldiers from helicopters above us dropped down on board.

"The soldiers were all masked, carrying big guns and were extremely brutal."

Would that be the same Norman Paech, who as I showed in an earlier post, was either very mistaken or lying about particulars regarding the incident. How much more is he mistaken or lying about?

Originally posted by mr-lizard

The Israeli Navy fired on the ships five minutes before commandos descended from ropes that dangled from helicopters, Zoabi said during a press conference in Nazareth, Israel. She said passengers on board the ship were unarmed.

Where is the video? You keep lying that it's out there, that there is evidence to support this. Where it is? Otherwise, you're nothing but a liar.

Who is paying you to lie, Mr-Lizard?

reply to post by black cat


You know what they say... If you want peace, prepare for war. That's what it looks like. Too bad they're not showing the assault boat entry, and what happened prior to all this madness.

reply to post by mr-lizard

The natural thing to when in the heat of confusion, tear gas , explosions, beatings and assaults is to try and DEFEND yourself.

Please show me where assault and beating began? From IDF video FIRST soldier that landed was attacked straight away. He did not have time to "beating and assault". So was the second one. I did not see peace activists dropped "only 3-4 feet into life boat". I saw group throwing armed soldier few meters ,to other deck. Maybe you show me different source?
On other vessels there were tear gas explosions and Israeli soldiers too. Nobody was killed. Weird? Natural thing and all.

Originally posted by primus2012
To me, it looks like he is pushed over and falls 3-4 feet down into the lifeboat. Not quite deadly, nor overboard, but good fuel for sensationalism.

The lifeboat is set away from the vessel, not right against it. I think the commando was thrown onto the lower deck.

Originally posted by Americanist
reply to post by black cat

 

You know what they say... If you want peace, prepare for war. That's what it looks like. Too bad they're not showing the assault boat entry, and what happened prior to all this madness.

It's also conveniently edited to show only what they want the world to see. "See, they attacked us with deck chairs and oars. We had to shoot and kill them."

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


What is your point with all this cross examination? Got something new to say?

You think discrediting witnesses here will work same as in some Hollywood movie?

You sound like Ahmedinejad claiming that there was no Holocaust.



Non resisting "authorities" is also part of slave conditioning. Maybe you should take a good look at yourself and try to discern what is prompting you to act like this. You are clearly defending the idea - why is an idea your master?

[edit on 1-6-2010 by DangerDeath]

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Local media does not report it. So i had no idea about that. I do not think that she is lying but i do assume that it was warning shots by Israeli ships that were not aimed at aid fleet. Since we both know that on 5 other ships there are no dead or wounded.
And of course the natural thing to do for person interested in peace after hearing fire from ships is to take a metal rode or knife and go after soldier with weapons. As on other 5 ships.

Self defense is in fact the most natural thing in the world.

After all isn't that the excuse that the heavily armed soldiers who killed people aboard those ships are claiming? Self Defense?

Isn't that what the Israeli Nation itself is claiming in regards to the collective punishment imposed on every man woman and child in Gaza through the blockade? Self Defense?

Tell me what kind of nation is Israel in fact where it sees every act of it's own agression as 'justifiable forms of self defense' yet sees no other person from any other nation as ever being within their rights to self defense, or will even consider it self defense when Israel is actually the instigator.

Fact a series of ships where stopped in International Water after having shots fired at their vessels and ships attempting to impeded and arrest their progress.

Did the flotilla try to stop the Israeli Vessels? No.

Did the flotilla try to shoot at the Israeli Vessels? No.

Is Gaza Israel? No.

Did the flotilla try to tell the Israeli's they could not sail to Gaza? No

Did the flotilla try to tell Israeli's they could not sail to Israel? No

Did the flotilla try to board the Israeli vessels? No.

Did the flotilla try to tell the captains of the Israeli vessels that they must off load their cargo and surrender it to them? No

Did the flotilla try to impose a blockade on Israel? No.

Beginning to see how stupid the Israeli Internet Defense Forces really sound?

I am guessing that would be a no too!

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

The natural thing to when in the heat of confusion, tear gas , explosions, beatings and assaults is to try and DEFEND yourself.

Please show me where assault and beating began? From IDF video FIRST soldier that landed was attacked straight away. He did not have time to "beating and assault". So was the second one. I did not see peace activists dropped "only 3-4 feet into life boat". I saw group throwing armed soldier few meters ,to other deck. Maybe you show me different source?

www.youtube.com...

Read the sources. The commando's didn't all come at once. This is evident with the video that shows injured people getting taken down to the bottom of the deck, and the person with the head wound.

By all accounts this whole thing took place over an hour, and the armed rebellion was one of the final stages.

It seems when the commando's FIRST landed, they were beating people and searching for certain individuals. At which point THREE people were reported by numerous witnesses to have been killed.

AFTER THIS - the reporter on board follows a crowd out from below deck to see MORE commando's rapelling down. THis is the point where i believe the people had had enough and started to retaliate against the brutal IDF.

Please don't be fooled into thinking all of this happened in a matter of minutes.


--

The link i posted is the stage where they are realising they are surrounded, you can quite clearly see wounded people below deck. It is dark and MORE commando's are rapelling down. This is AFTER people had been shot.

Please think about what you are saying.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by mr-lizard]

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

The natural thing to when in the heat of confusion, tear gas , explosions, beatings and assaults is to try and DEFEND yourself.

Please show me where assault and beating began? From IDF video FIRST soldier that landed was attacked straight away. He did not have time to "beating and assault". So was the second one. I did not see peace activists dropped "only 3-4 feet into life boat". I saw group throwing armed soldier few meters ,to other deck. Maybe you show me different source?
On other vessels there were tear gas explosions and Israeli soldiers too. Nobody was killed. Weird? Natural thing and all.

The armed soldiers repelling onto the ship would be considered assault. They weren't dropping in for a spot of tea and a game of parcheesi.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

The natural thing to when in the heat of confusion, tear gas , explosions, beatings and assaults is to try and DEFEND yourself.

Please show me where assault and beating began? From IDF video FIRST soldier that landed was attacked straight away. He did not have time to "beating and assault". So was the second one. I did not see peace activists dropped "only 3-4 feet into life boat". I saw group throwing armed soldier few meters ,to other deck. Maybe you show me different source?
On other vessels there were tear gas explosions and Israeli soldiers too. Nobody was killed. Weird? Natural thing and all.

Are you THAT inept dude? It's a IDF released AND EDITED video. OF COURSE they wouldn't show you how it really happened. Why do you defend these murderous bast*rds? They had AT LEAST 50 other options they could have pursued besides running an assault raid with SPECIAL FORCE COMMANDOS onto a ship of pro-Palestinian activists. Israel was just ASKING for the activists to fight back, it's no wonder the Commandos look so inept, it's because the IDF never intended to stop this peacefully....They had to get "over-run" to justify killing off a few of the "Hamas Sympathizers" as the JIDF refers to them...

Originally posted by mr-lizard
By all accounts this whole thing took place over an hour, and the armed rebellion was one of the final stages.

It took over an hour and we have no footage of this? All we have of an hour-long incident is just snippets of footage, nothing to support these claims? Very interesting.

Who is paying you to lie, Mr-Lizard?

Originally posted by primus2012

Originally posted by Americanist
reply to post by black cat

 

You know what they say... If you want peace, prepare for war. That's what it looks like. Too bad they're not showing the assault boat entry, and what happened prior to all this madness.

It's also conveniently edited to show only what they want the world to see. "See, they attacked us with deck chairs and oars. We had to shoot and kill them."

Selective editing strikes again... This would have played out much better in the media had Israeli Commandos dressed up as pimps and ho's before rolling the tape (a reference to Acorn in case you're wondering).

One of the main things that strikes me as odd in the press (uk and us), is that none of the seem to mention the activists protecting THEMSELVES.

There's comments everywhere from the Israeli forces saying they were being attacked, one even going as far as to say:

"The outcome was different to what we thought, but I must say that this was mainly because of the inappropriate behavior of the adversary we encountered."

How the hell is a bunch of peaceful activists being ILLEGALLY attacked by armed commandos "inappropriate' when they are simply defending themselves? israeli troops shoot and kill families and innocent kids for absolutely no reason, if i was there knowing that I'd be sh*tting myself that I would get shot on site, and therefore would naturally do anything I can to defend myself before catching a bullet in the head (well... that or hide anyway ).

I find it absolutely absurd that armed commandos, with guns, flack jackets, helmets and years of training are whining about taking a bit of a beating when they are illegally attacking civilians in international water. I really am just lost for words when it comes to this.

How does the press manage to push the angle that innocent civilians defending themselves against trained, armed and illegally attacking agents is somehow wrong? Israel are now saying that if they can prove who attacked the military they will be punished to the maximum extent of the law. This isn't like attacking a cop in the street if you've just nicked something, the military had NO LEGAL RIGHT to be on those boats. Simple as that, they therefore deserve everything they got, and in my opinion attacking civilians in open waters... I would personally see no problem if the commandos did all get shot, you attack someone with a gun, then you know the risks... and self defence against an armed assailant generally means putting them down as quickly as possible to avoid getting shot yourself.

I thought Mossad and the Israeli forces were supposed to be the best in the world? They're moaning like a bunch of little p***ies about being hit with sticks! FFS

I just hope Turkey stick to their word and escort the next flotilla with warships, if only the UK government would grow some balls (they should have 4 now!) and lend a hand, but I guess once hell's frozen over our ships wouldn't be much use

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

The natural thing to when in the heat of confusion, tear gas , explosions, beatings and assaults is to try and DEFEND yourself.

Please show me where assault and beating began? From IDF video FIRST soldier that landed was attacked straight away. He did not have time to "beating and assault". So was the second one. I did not see peace activists dropped "only 3-4 feet into life boat". I saw group throwing armed soldier few meters ,to other deck. Maybe you show me different source?

www.youtube.com...

Read the sources. The commando's didn't all come at once. This is evident with the video that shows injured people getting taken down to the bottom of the deck, and the person with the head wound.

By all accounts this whole thing took place over an hour, and the armed rebellion was one of the final stages.

It seems when the commando's FIRST landed, they were beating people and searching for certain individuals. At which point THREE people were reported by numerous witnesses to have been killed.

AFTER THIS - the reporter on board follows a crowd out from below deck to see MORE commando's rapelling down. THis is the point where i believe the people had had enough and started to retaliate against the brutal IDF.

Please don't be fooled into thinking all of this happened in a matter of minutes.


--

The link i posted is the stage where they are realising they are surrounded, you can quite clearly see wounded people below deck. It is dark and MORE commando's are rapelling down. This is AFTER people had been shot.

Please think about what you are saying.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by mr-lizard]

Thank you Mr. Lizard. I've been waiting for someone to point out how illogical it is to base yer thoughts on this ONLY on what the IDF shows us. Taken in the context you provide it makes MUCH more sense. I think it's possible that it was peaceful until the IDF went after specific "hamas sympathizers". When the activists saw the troops targeting specific people they went into a rampage and attempted to fight the IDF off. Those reports also correlate to the possible "kill list" which would be interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if Israel was going to use this "boarding party" as a means to get rid of some of their "louder voiced enemies".

WHY ISRAEL ASSAULTS GAZA: GENOCIDE of GAZA

[edit on 6/1/10 by ElijahWan]