The Bible IS The Word of God! No doubt about it!

reply to post by JesusisTruth


Another topic not mentioned by the critics is the role that primogeniture played in the Crusades and the colonization of the Americas. Under the laws of primogeniture, the estate usually went in total to the oldest son. Often second and third sons (such as me) ended up depending on the charity of their older brother. When the older brother passed away, the estate went to his oldest son. If you were of the nobility (but had no estate), about the only way you could get an estate was to go someplace else and set up one of your own. Hence many of the lords in the crusades were second and third sons of noble birth going to Palestine in the hopes of carving out a barony of their own. The same was for the Americas, many of the estates set up in Virginia were done by fortuneless English nobles:

Many of the Spanish Conquistadors were younger sons who had to make their fortune in war. In the late 17th and early 18th centuries, many younger sons of English aristocrats specifically chose to leave England for Virginia in the Colonies. Many of the early Virginians who were plantation owners were such younger sons who had left England fortuneless due to primogeniture laws. These Founding Fathers of the United States of America were nearly universally descended from the landed gentry of England.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by Esoteric Teacher

 

First off Teacher, my apologies if I was a bit rough in my last reply to you. Not my intention to offend you nor downplay your opinion – just that name calling does not play well with me. So again my apologies.

Apology not accepted!

Why? Because it was not required, although it is appreciated.
You made more statements here in this thread that were accurate than those that weren't. Furthermore, from your perspective(s) you were sharing how you felt at that particular moment, but our environment changes with every step ... and every second.

I too apologize for percieving it necessary to invoke some measure of emotion to find some common ground to agree upon and ...
BINGO!

We both win!

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner, in my book anyways, for whatever value might be placed on my opinion.

you stated as fact (which is true):

just that name calling does not play well with me

and since we were "created in their (elohim) image", is it too far of a stretch to believe GOD isn't in favor of being defined, confined, or categorically labelled by any word, name, or one book?

thank you for supporting my theory:

god is neither confined nor defined by any label, name, OR BOOK!

you (god) do not like being labelled or called names. They are not the end all be all of defining our hidden/buried potentials, i think.

I'll read the rest of your post later, right now i'm happy to have found something we can agree upon.

i think i might watch glenn beck embarrass the human race, and come back later to blow off some steam.

thanks for the conversation, talk more later!

hopefully a future reliable friend,
john



p.s.
it's not always our responsibility to direct others on their personal path, especially if we have never walked that path. But, if familiarities exist between our paths and our shared reality, and we notice them, then it's nice to know someone can relate, it makes us feel less alone in the world, a world of individuals sharing one reality.

Let's hope we can find compliance with our environment before our reality forces compliance upon us, or abandons us.

god may be what happens when:

action is required, and fight or flight no longer provides reliable options for us.

the moment we become more than the sum of our parts ....

apotheosis

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
2. The most canonized saints who worked 2000 years of scienitfically tested miracles. Still to this date.

Can you source and prove this to me?

-Kyo

Originally posted by texastig

Originally posted by KyoZero

Alot of this done in the name of Christianity. Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Witch hunts

I had heard that the crusades were done to stop the muslims from taking over.

As for the Spanish Inquisition, those were catholics. I don't believe that catholics are Christians.

According the book called, "The Light and the Glory", the witch hunts were opposed by the pastors.
I'll type out the actual source for you when I get home.

You can believe what ya want but Catholicism is part of Christianity. And you saying you heard that the Crusades were in defense. I don't believe that at all but that's fine. So great the witch hunts were opposed. Did the pastors step in and stop it the way they should?

How about Arnaud and his kill em all concept?

Sorry I can't just say well this is all no big deal. Christians have killed many. I am not saying you are the only ones mind you but that is the topic at hand

-Kyo

Originally posted by texastig
How can you explain that one man [Jesus] fulfilled prophecy in the Bible?
Jesus fulfilled more than 324 individual prophecies that the Prophets wrote concerning Him.

Please reread what I posted above because I already explained this. Your bible prophecies are so vague and allegorical that any literate person who devotes enough time and effort can make virtually any set of circumstances seem to fulfill the prophecy. In the case of Jesus it is even easier since there is no solid evidence that the man even existed. It is easy to fulfill prophecy when you manufacture the "facts" surrounding the fulfillment.

Originally posted by texastig
How do you explain the world wanting a one world currency foretold in the Bible?
Rev 13:17
"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

Prime example. That verse says nothing about a one world currency. Nothing at all yet that is how people have traditionally interpreted it and they have been "seeing" it in contemporary society ever since. What's more is there is every reason to believe the author of Revelation was suffering from temporal lobe epilepsy.

Google Video Link

Originally posted by KyoZero
Christians have killed many.
-Kyo

i humbly, modestly, but adamantly dissagree.

if we were to ask jesus if those doing the killing were performing these acts in accordance with the intentionality of his teachings, i bet my bottom dollar he would say something to the effect of:

um, i don't recall where i demonstrated this through my actions and behaviors, nor do i recall where i said doing this should be done.
___________________________________
if i call myself a christian, does it make it true?
if i call myself a muslim, does it make it true?
if i call myself a jew, does it make it true?

people can confuse themselves into believe they are something they are not, although this may not neccessarily mean it is untrue in every instance.



[edit on 26-5-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

reply to post by Lilitu

Please reread what I posted above because I already explained this. Your bible prophecies are so vague and allegorical that any literate person who devotes enough time and effort can make virtually any set of circumstances seem to fulfill the prophecy. In the case of Jesus it is even easier since there is no solid evidence that the man even existed. It is easy to fulfill prophecy when you manufacture the "facts" surrounding the fulfillment.

From the New International Version:
Daniel 9
21. while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice.
22. He instructed me and said to me, "Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding.
23. As soon as you began to pray, an answer was given, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the message and understand the vision:
24. "Seventy `sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.
25. "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven `sevens,' and sixty-two `sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.
26. After the sixty-two `sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
27. He will confirm a covenant with many for one `seven.' In the middle of the `seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. "

458 B.C. (or 457 B.C.) - Decree of Artaxerxes given to Ezra.
*
* 7 Weeks - 49 Years
* 49 year rebuilding of Jerusalem
409 B.C. (or 408 B.C.) - Reconstruction of Jerusalem complete
* 62 Weeks - 434 Years
26 A.D. ( or 27 A.D.) - Advent of Jesus Christ
* Advent of Jesus Christ. Jesus begins his ministry.
* One Week - 7 Years
33 A.D.
*Jesus Christ is crucified
* the year 70 A.D., after several years of rebellion, the Roman army of Titus, the son of Vespasian, destroys the Second Temple and Jerusalem.

Prophecy that can be dated with specific facts.

reply to post by Lilitu


some have done battle in the darkest of places
some have stood in rank with thy angelic faces

either we choose to, or we do not exist
and if we do we most surely have kissed
any and all found on anyones' chosen list
lest we deal with parents who are pissed

forgive them if it is your souls they coax
they effort to prove that death is a hoax

we have stood in rank with angelic faces
we have done battle in the darkest of places ....

__________________________

i saw lucifer, lost, bloodied and spent
go through the motions of a thing called lent ....


lucifer (aka "look i fear" / aka "lose cypher")


lucifer walked up to his brother, jesus (same parents)

lucifer had no fight left?

lucifer said nothing, weeping, crying ...

jesus spoke:

brother, daddy wants to talk to you about some # you have done, but no one takes fear to the throne of my father.
You wished to be like "I AM"?
but, brother, no one else is alpha, lend me your fear, i'll lend you my "i'm" instead of "I AM", and earth shall witness it, too.

jesus asked lucifer a question:
Can two o's make the same sound as a u can?

lucifer/look i fear/ lose cypher, the dark trinity nodded.

jesus said: now instead of "luk i fear" you are Look I'M = Luki'm

brother, before you enter the throne room, check your appearance in the mirror:

LUKIM [mirror] MIKUL

yes, brother, you were mikul/michael

lucifer and michael were, are, will be one in the same.
_____________________________

Moses asked a bush:
"who is sending me?"

the bush said:
"i am that i am"

i am.

911 = emergency phone call

trinity = 3

911 trinity = 9113

a =1 h = 8
b = 2 i = 9
c = 3 j = 10
d = 4 k = 11
e = 5 l = 12
f = 6 m = 13
g = 7

911 trinity = i am
____________________

Source: The Koran
chapter 9, verse 11:
"and we make communications clear fo a people who know"

source: The Bible:
chapter 11, verse 9:
"and god so confused the languages" (story of tower of babel)

Is it your spiritual opinion that reversing the chapter and the verse from one book to the other results in total opposite phrases is a total coincidence devoid of any intelligent intervention?

9-11 in one book = understanding communications
11-9 in one book = confusing communications

just some things that your reality has permitted me to learn, thought i would share.


me know stuff.
me share.





:shk:

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by edmc^2

The Holy Scriptures, the inspired Word of Jehovah God, acknowledged as the greatest book of all times because of:

1.Its antiquity.

psst, i got a secret:
seek writ = secret
loss vague guess = las vegas

antiquity?

there are more variables to time than:
past, present, and future (your input is part of the equasion, always has been, always will be)

time is not only the past.
time is not only the future.
time is not only the present.

time is not confined to only past, present, and future.

antiquity is fear's misconception, no blame to be assigned, no guilt required.



[edit on 26-5-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

reply to post by edmc^2


I have a dirty little confession to make.

It is my personal belief that that the holy bible is totally circulated, because we share such a large percentage of our dna.

Unless we are willing to concede that dna had no part whatsoever in the writing those books, we must concede that since we share such a large proportion of our dna, that the bible is totally circulated, even if the name of the book is known.

since god does not like to have his/her/adrogenesis aliens full potential locked up in someone elses label, unless we are willing to add a name the world may call us also, a nickname perhaps..... and leave room for change .... adaptation..

anyways, i just thought i would confess that.

Originally posted by KyoZero
You can believe what ya want but Catholicism is part of Christianity.

Not true. There are Protestants and Catholics. They are totally different.
Their teachings are totally different. Catholics believe that you have to go through their church to goto Heaven. Protestants believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

Originally posted by KyoZero
And you saying you heard that the Crusades were in defense. I don't believe that at all but that's fine.

www.americanthinker.com...
It is only after all of the Islamic aggressive invasions that Western Christendom launches its first Crusades.

Originally posted by KyoZero
So great the witch hunts were opposed. Did the pastors step in and stop it the way they should?

Posted with permission from Peter Marshall. From the book, "The Light and the Glory". Page 238
The witchcraft trials were stopped when the clergy prevailed upon Governor William Phips to curtail them. They were convinced that the proceedings were not in God's will and that the whole land become gripped by a spirit of vengeance."

Originally posted by KyoZero
Sorry I can't just say well this is all no big deal. Christians have killed many. I am not saying you are the only ones mind you but that is the topic at hand

In all of the religious wars involving christianity less than 5 million people died. And that's in all history. Between nazism and communism more than a 100 million people have died and that's in the last 60-80 years.

Originally posted by Lilitu
Please reread what I posted above because I already explained this. Your bible prophecies are so vague and allegorical that any literate person who devotes enough time and effort can make virtually any set of circumstances seem to fulfill the prophecy.

I read your post and what your saying is not true.
Professor Stoner, concludes the fulfillment of these eight prophecies alone proves that God inspired the writing of the prophecies (Idem, 107) - the likelihood of mere chance is only one in 10^17!
Another way of saying this is that any person who minimizes or ignores the significance of the biblical identifying signs concerning the Messiah would be foolish

Originally posted by Lilitu
In the case of Jesus it is even easier since there is no solid evidence that the man even existed. It is easy to fulfill prophecy when you manufacture the "facts" surrounding the fulfillment.

Wrong. There are over 16 ancient "non-Christian sources for Christ.
Christ wasn't born when the prophecies of Him were given. There's no manufacturing.

Originally posted by Lilitu
Prime example. That verse says nothing about a one world currency. Nothing at all yet that is how people have traditionally interpreted it and they have been "seeing" it in contemporary society ever since. What's more is there is every reason to believe the author of Revelation was suffering from temporal lobe epilepsy.

So what does buy and sell mean? Means you have to have currency.
The author of Revelation was in his right mind.

Originally posted by texastig
Professor Stoner, concludes...

Appeal to Authority.

Originally posted by texastig
Another way of saying this is that any person who minimizes or ignores the significance of the biblical identifying signs concerning the Messiah would be foolish

Ad Hominem.

Originally posted by texastig
Wrong. There are over 16 ancient "non-Christian sources for Christ.
Christ wasn't born when the prophecies of Him were given. There's no manufacturing.

Post links to all of them please.

Originally posted by texastig
So what does buy and sell mean? Means you have to have currency.
The author of Revelation was in his right mind.

Ever walk into Sam's Club out of the blue and try to buy something? You can't. You have to have a membership before you can buy. That little snippet of psychobabble only states that you have to have to be marked before you can buy or sell. That's all.

If the content of Revelation is any indication, and it is, then the author was probably so far gone that in todays world we would have no choice but to institutionalize him, perhaps for the remainder of his life.

reply to post by SugarCube


SugarCube,
Thanks for your question.
I like the way you put it “which religion best reflects the ethos of that word?” but kinda sensitive question because it will definitely raise the pressure on some that don't agree. In any case I will try to explain but bear with me as it will be a little bit long (I'll try to make short as I can).

Let me answer first your last question; which interpretation is correct and why?

It depends whose answering and who you trust more. For instance you have two entity who are both knowledgeable on a certain product, say a car. The manufacturer on one side and master mechanic on one side. Which one do you think is the BEST qualified to explain to you the product. To me, even though the master mechanic has very good knowledge about the car I will trust the manufacturer more since he has an ACCURATE knowledge of his product. He knows the ins and outs of it and even wrote a manufacturer's factory repair manual to maintain it and fix it when there's a problem.

So in like manner, God as the author of the Bible is the BEST person to explain it. And happily the knowledge and wisdom that we need to understand it are already in the Bible. In other words it interprets itself. This is one of the keys in UNDERSTANDING the Bible.

Notice what one of the writer said to his fellow Christians:

“No prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation . . . but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.” (2Pe 1:20, 21)

Thus, Bible prophecies were never the product of shrewd or astute deductions and predictions by men based on their personal analysis of human events or trends.

Now, if you carefully read and study the Bible you will notice a couple of things.

That is, on some areas the meaning of some prophecies are obvious, hence requiring no interpretation. An example is when the prophet was used to foretell that the Judeans would ‘go into captivity to the king of Babylon for seventy years’ or that Babylon would become ‘a desolate waste.’ The time of the fulfillment, of course, was not always known, though in some cases this, too, was explicitly stated. Many prophecies or particular features of the prophecies, however, were only partially understood at the time of their being given, the full understanding or interpretation will come in God’s due time for their being made clear. This was true with some of the prophecies of Daniel and with regard to the Messiah and the sacred secret involving him.— see Dan 12:4, 8-10; 1Pe 1:10-12.

Here's another example to prove the point. In the book of Genesis 40 and 41 there was a case in which Pharaoh dreamed dreams (from God). So he called all his magic practicing priest and wise men to interpret the dreams but they were helpless. “There was no interpreter of them for Pharaoh”, the bible says, except one. Joseph was able to interpret the meaning of the dreams to Pharaoh but he himself did not take the credit, instead he said ““I need not be considered! God will announce welfare to Pharaoh.” (Ge 41:14-16). After hearing the interpretation, even Pharaoh acknowledged Joseph to be “one in whom the spirit of God” was found, for “God has caused you [Joseph] to know all this.”—Ge 41:38, 39.

See Da 2:14-30 if you need more proof.

The same was also true when Jesus was on earth when he formed true Christianity. You've already seen 2Pet 1:20,21 but notice this one;

"Now there are varieties of gifts, but there is the same spirit; and there are varieties of ministries, and yet there is the same Lord; and there are varieties of operations, and yet it is the same God who performs all the operations in all persons. But the manifestation of the spirit is given to each one for a beneficial purpose" - 1Co 12:4-7.

Thus along with letting the Bible give it's own meaning, we need God's holy spirit to gain not just knowledge but ACCURATE knowledge.

Note what one of the Bible writer said “This is what I continue praying, that your love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment.” (Philippians 1:9)”

By not letting the Bible interpret itself and try to inject our own understanding, or without considering the context of a particular verse or word we get into trouble. We arrive at the incorrect meaning. And most of the time meaning is within the context and other times it's on another part of the Bible.

Give yourself a simple test. What is the meaning or the interpretation of Jesus words here at Matthew 13:24, 25, 37-39? Please let me know when you figure it out.

As for your question “which religion best reflects the ethos of that word?”
It's best that we let the Bible answer it for you:

1 Pet 2:21 - “In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU, leaving YOU a model for YOU to follow his steps closely.”

If this is true back then (in the 1st cent when true Christianity was formed) so true today!

In short Jesus left us a PATTERN , a MODEL to follow – him!

And this pattern/model is in the Bible and no one can deny or hide from it – another reason why the Bible exist and why its overwhelmingly significance for mankind.

Just like the car manufacturer, they have a model/pattern to follow to produce their product. Anyone who tries to build it w/o the model will just be an imitation.

The same with religion, i.e. Christianity. If one must use care and accurate knowledge when buying a very expensive rolex, how much more important then when one is deciding which religion is true/best.

Which one is true then or “best reflects the ethos of that word?” I believe it is not up to me to tell you that but it's up to you to decide by using the model that Jesus left.

Anyone (including the OP) or any religion that claims to be a “Christian” and yet does not follow the model will be judge by the master this way:

“Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.”—Matthew 7:22, 23.

cont.

edit: rephrase

[edit on 27-5-2010 by edmc^2]

Another verse puts it this way, they would “publicly declare they know God,” but in reality they would “disown him by their works.” (Titus 1:16)

Below is a list that makes up the model. They are actually commands that he left us to follow. I'll list just a few.

1) “I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”—John 13:34, 35.

→ Jesus requires his followers to have genuine love for one another and for the rest of mankind.

Which religion has fulfilled this command especially in times of war?

2)If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”—John 8:31, 32.

→ Jesus expects his followers to remain in his word—that is, to stick to his teachings.

Instead of teaching what Jesus taught, many religion teach traditions, doctrines rooted in paganism and human philosophy.

Note also what Hubert Butler describes as “militant and political ecclesiasticism.” “Political Christianity,” he writes, “is almost always also militarist Christianity and when statesmen and ecclesiastics come to terms it always happens that, in return for certain privileges, the Church gives its blessing to the military forces of the state.” True Christianity must remain neutral.

3)By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].-- Matthew 7:16-20.

What are these good fruits?

“...the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. Moreover, those who belong to Christ Jesus impaled the flesh together with its passions and desires.”

Can you see these “fruits” on any who claim to be Christians?

Sad part is, those who claim to be Christians are themselves perpetrators of un-Christian conducts.

For these the apostle Paul gave this warning:

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.” . (Ga 5:16-21)

Here are some more: Matthew chap 5, 6 and 7

– You must not commit adultery. But I say to YOU that everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

– Just let YOUR word Yes mean Yes, YOUR No, No; for what is in excess of these is from the wicked one.

– YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’  However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. For if YOU love those loving YOU, what reward do YOU have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if YOU greet YOUR brothers only, what extraordinary thing are YOU doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? YOU must accordingly be perfect, as YOUR heavenly Father is perfect.

– “Take good care not to practice YOUR righteousness in front of men in order to be observed by them; otherwise YOU will have no reward with YOUR Father who is in the heavens

Like what I said, there's more but I'll just stop here.

Point to remember, since no one is perfect, all will make a mistake in one form or another. Some small and some are grievous. So you can't expect that the true religion will be perfect – that is true with the 1st cent Christians same today. The difference though is why the badness was done. Was it unintentional – overcomed by weakness or was it intentional. There's a big difference between weakness and wickedness. True Christians will seek forgiveness and do all the required steps to remedy the problem and right the wrong while the other will try to ignore and hide it (1John 2:1). But if an unrepentant sinner keeps on insisting on his ways then those responsible within the organization will follow the model layed down in the Bible namely:

“But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.” (1 Corinthians 5:11-13)

Do you know any religion that does this? Or to repeat your question ““which religion best reflects the ethos of that word?”

You probably know my answer already but in the end it will be up to you to figure this out.

Thanks,
edmc^2

reply to post by Lilitu

(Rev 13:16) And the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the freemen and the slaves, it causes that they give to them all a mark on their right hand, or on their foreheads,
(Rev 13:17) even that not any could buy or sell, except the one having the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of its name.

This was written in the days before even paper money was used extensively. Almost all financial transactions were done by coins (copper, silver, and gold). To state that financial transactions could be controlled by wearing a "mark" would seem unimaginable in the days when a man's worth was determined by the weight of gold coin he carried in his purse. How was it possible to control buying and selling (financial transactions) by wearing a mark when you bought anything by jingling a few gold coins in front of the seller? Today with electronic transfers, it is not such a "far fetched" idea. In fact currency represents about 1% of the money it present circulation, the rest is "check book money". There are efforts among the federal reserve banks to do away with currency altogether. Eliminate currencies and the above prediction comes true easily. The prophecy can be easily implement concerning the state of modern electronic transfers. The feds want it, the banks want it. By the way, how many credit cards and bank cards in your wallet, and when was the last time you bought anything major with cold hard cash?

For a history on paper money:
en.wikipedia.org...

Also you have not replied to my posting about the Daniel 9 prophecy which is a concrete prophecy backed up by historical evidence.

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher

Apology not accepted!

Wheew! Scared me there for a moment Esoteric Teacher, but thanks.

seek writ = secret
loss vague guess = las vegas

Now that's funny.

time is not only the present.

my turn -

"Today is a gift, that is why it's called a present."

Lilitu / Kyo - I have not forgotten your Qs - will be back with a reply asap.
research is such a chore!

Thanks,
edmc^2

reply to post by jagdflieger



You know I honestly don't care. Not one bit. I have stated how I interpret it based on the words alone without trying to read anything into it but it just doesn't matter. Either way it is pure BS. What's more, I have already stated that for me and I am sure many other intellectuals, religious prophecy is one of the most unconvincing arguments theists have. Throwing more phantasmagorical BS at me isn't going to change that.

Originally posted by Lilitu
Appeal to Authority.

It was more than that. Check this out:
"The estimates were worked out by twelve different classes representing some 600 university students.

The students carefully weighed all the factors, discussed each prophecy at length, and examined the various circumstances which might indicate that men had conspired together to fulfill a particular prophecy. They made their estimates conservative enough so that there was finally unanimous agreement even among the most skeptical students.

However Professor Stoner then took their estimates, and made them even more conservative. He also encouraged other skeptics or scientists to make their own estimates to see if his conclusions were more than fair. Finally, he submitted his figures for review to a committee of the American Scientific Affiliation. Upon examination, they verified that his calculations were dependable and accurate in regard to the scientific material presented (Peter Stoner, Science Speaks, Chicago: Moody Press, 1969, 4)."

Originally posted by Lilitu
Ad Hominem.

Fact

Originally posted by Lilitu
Post links to all of them please.

www.garyhabermas.com...

Originally posted by texastig
So what does buy and sell mean? Means you have to have currency.
The author of Revelation was in his right mind.

Originally posted by Lilitu
Ever walk into Sam's Club out of the blue and try to buy something? You can't. You have to have a membership before you can buy. That little snippet of psychobabble only states that you have to have to be marked before you can buy or sell. That's all.

Being marked is what the Book of Revelation says.

Originally posted by Lilitu
If the content of Revelation is any indication, and it is, then the author was probably so far gone that in todays world we would have no choice but to institutionalize him, perhaps for the remainder of his life.

Doesn't matter if you think he was crazy, it's going to come to pass whether we like it or not.


[edit on 5/28/2010 by texastig]

reply to post by KyoZero

Tell me exactly HOW it's antiquity proves it to be God's word. Lemme start with that.

Like I said I am sure the scripture has helped millions upon millions but it still doesn't prove that scripture is from God.

Although the subject line related to Antiquity “acknowledged” the fact that “The Holy Scriptures, the inspired Word of Jehovah God, is the greatest book of all times because of:

1. Its antiquity.
2. Its total circulation.
3. The number of languages into which it has been translated.
4. Its surpassing greatness as a literary masterpiece.
5. And its overwhelming importance to all mankind.

It can also be said that it’s one of the reasons why it exists, forming one of the many strands of evidence proving that the Bible really is God’s Word. Each strand is strong, but when all are taken together, they are unbreakable.

Now, consider the following please:

According to the Bible, God knew that after mankind went their own way and abandoned Him as their creator and father, there will be men/women born who will chose to be obedient and decide to return to God. Thus a “plan” was needed to guide these obedient ones back to Him. The Bible was/is the MOST effective way of accomplishing this! Through its pages, like a court stenographer, the history of man will be recorded for posterity along with guidelines and reminders on what needs to done to stay in the “way”.

True to its form Isaiah 55:6-7 says this:

“Search for Jehovah, YOU people, while he may be found. Call to him while he proves to be near. Let the wicked man leave his way, and the harmful man his thoughts; and let him return to Jehovah, who will have mercy upon him, and to our God, for he will forgive in a large way.”

(See also Ezek. 33:11 and Mal. 3:7).

Similarly, the apostle Peter reminded Christians: “Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.”—2 Pet. 3:9

Notice how God is the one pleading almost begging mankind to return to him. A complete contradiction to what the “religions” of the world has portrayed God to be – a cruel merciless God who roasts people on a fiery place.

Notice also this loving admonition:

“Though the sins of you people should prove to be as scarlet, they will be made white just like snow; though they should be red like crimson cloth, they will become even like wool.” (Isaiah 1:18)

Jehovah can take sins that are like scarlet and crimson and make them white like snow or undyed wool. When Jehovah forgives our sins, we need not feel that we bear the stain of such sins for the rest of our life.
(See also Micah 7:18, 19)

What a loving Father Jehovah God is!

The fact that the Bible is as old as man means that it contains the true history of what happened to man. How they started with a bright future (Gen 1:28) and what went wrong. It also shows that it was not only humans but an angel of God was involved in the rebellion (Gen 3:1-5). And that from the moment mankind choose to be independent from their Creator they paid a terrible price: they lost the prospect of living happily forever on a paradise earth (Gen 3:24) and finally passed their imperfections unto their children.

Notice this biblical fact:

Romans 5:12 - “That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned. “

The imperfection brought not only sin but death to mankind. Thus we are in this dying state and in need of a savior (Romans 5:23). But a more sinister issue was brought in by the rebellion in the Garden of Eden, the universal sovereignty was put into question – that is, as the Creator, God’s right to rule mankind was challenged.

Notice, this one single incident that put everything upside down: Gen 3:1-5 says:

“At this the serpent said to the woman:
“...Is it really so that God said YOU must not eat from every tree of the garden?” At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘YOU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.’” Did you notice it? God told Adam and Eve that they can eat everything in the garden except for this one tree.

But this angel twisted it and made God a liar instead by saying: “

“YOU positively will not die. For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad.”

In other words, this angel made it appear that God was hiding something from them. By contradicting God, he resisted and slandered God and thus came to be known as “satan” (Gr: satanas meaning resister) the “devil” (Gr: diabolos meaning slanderer).

By eating the fruit of the tree, Adam and Eve signaled to God, WE DON'T NEED YOU ANYMORE! We can live on our own, we don't need your guidance and we can decide what is good and what is bad for us from now on. They clearly said that satan was right, that man can “direct his own step” (Jer 10:23). In short they said that God has NO RIGHT to rule mankind.

Do you think the three rebels were right in their claim? Many by their words and actions say so – directly or indirectly!

Cont….