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The Bible IS The Word of God! No doubt about it!

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posted on May, 23 2010 @ 09:03 AM
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I like your thread, however, stating that the bible is an overwhelming peice of importance to mankind can be argued.

Does the millions of people who have died over christianity make it very important to mankind? Or will the excuse of, it was meant to happen going to suffice at this point?

GOD EXISTS, end of story, i sure do not need a book to tell me he does or how to be the best person i can and i sure dont need to go to a building to recite a book that has be changed and mistranslated to a smidgen of its former self to be told he exists and that if i dont go to church to pray i will go to hell...

GOD EXISTS in my heart and i will foloow him the same as he follows me.




posted on May, 23 2010 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by ReelView
Hmm, Any chance emc2, wiredamerican and randyvs might be the same person or related in some way? emc2 posts at 5:36, the first response is wired at 5:42 then randy at 5:44? Less than 8 minutes since a new thread and the first two responders are loading the deck with praise for the absolute and irrefutable brilliance of the original post!

---------
Thats a good possibility as all three as a group contributed nothing but nonsense to the topic. Their "support", "facts", and "evidence" consist completely of opinion and faith. Nothing convincing provided to support their claim of this foolish MAN-made book to be of divine nature. Completely unconvincing and full of nonsense.

Silly Christains, why are you all so blind?



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 09:46 AM
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If never exposed to god, you would not have a damn clue who he is.

Instead, you would more likely follow the science route assuming you were taught in a public high school like many people in the U.S.A.

I am sure there are native tribes on remote islands in the middle of nowhere who do not have the slightest clue who God is - or at least YOUR god.

From the people I know - those who seem to believe in God are the ones with a very religious upbringing/bad at academics (or sometimes referred to as stupid). The other types are the ones who go to jail for killing a family and want a way to forgive themselves.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 11:20 AM
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Wow! Nothing kills a thread faster than moving it from ATS to BTS. I first viewed the OP last night before going out to dinner. What I prophesied for this thread was based not on any great spiritual insight but merely on deja vu. The action as I would have predicted continued until this thread ended up here. Basically it was the same old arguments posted by the "usual suspects" which has been posted over and over before. Nothing new here. We have the same old arguments:
1. Argument based on outrage of certain aspects of Mosaic Law which have been misunderstood and misquoted. If you read this posting then go to the following links concerning Mosaic Law:
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
Note the following quote from wikipedia.com


Rabbinic Judaism asserts that the Laws of the Jewish Bible were presented to the Jewish people and converts to Judaism and do not apply to gentiles, including Christians, with the notable exception of the Seven Laws of Noah which apply to all people.

2. Arguments based on outrage of apparent genocide sanctioned in the Bible with no understanding of the purpose and goal. By the way if you want to read about genocide, check out the Kurukshetra War (3067BCE).
3. Same old blanket statements from the skeptics (all Christians are stupid zombies).
4. Same old arguments from the Christians.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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Jad.. yea only spammars are allowed at ats.


OP I could of sworn this was a biblical attack thread. Well done.

The reason it has all those attributes is because it is from the creator of this universe.

God has to leave his story in a book to his people, it's common sense. If not mandkind is in the dark.

Not only does it have those attributes, but it also predicts a one world order and a mark on our hand having to do with global dictatorship.


peace.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by edmc^2


Bible history: Its history is accurate and can be relied upon.




Not too long ago I took my first English college course and the number one rule in that class was to not make statements like this without also including the supporting evidence.

You make this statement without giving anything to back it up. What is your evidence that the history of the bible is accurate?

Also it is my belief that a lot of your "evidence" can also be used as evidence of why the bible is NOT the word of God. Take the fact that it has been translated into many different languages for example. From what I have seen, when scripts are translated into different languages, meanings get scrambled.

The bible's antiquity, it's circulation, it's languages, that it's been called a literary masterpiece and it's importance to mankind do not mean it's the word of God. I take that to mean that it's just a popular old book.

[edit on 23-5-2010 by snowflake_obsidian]



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


Good post and welcome to the battle.

ATS has it's fair share of believers, agnostics, deists, and atheists.

The bible, more specifically the new testament is like the ultimate supreme court for morality, and that is why people hate it so much, they don't want to believe it, they don't want it to be true, and they have a strong vested interest in disproving it.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Loken68

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by edmc^2
 


1.Its antiquity. -
Because surely the old ways of thinking are better.
Compared to modern thinking yes!

2.Its total circulation.
Plenty of books are in great circulation now.
This one doesn't get Opras endorsement.

3.The number of languages into which it has been translated.
More than plenty of books have been translated into many different languages
Name one translated into as many as the Bible, just one?

4.Its surpassing greatness as a literary masterpiece.
Is that a fact?
Generic answer.

5.And its overwhelming importance to all mankind.
Is that a fact?
Generic Answer.


1.It imitates no other.
I guess this is true. But then again you do find many similarities in the books of the bible and old myths
Probably because of histories...Again Generic answer.

2.It stands on its own merits, giving credit to its unique Author.
Which author?
Holy men inspired by God

3.The Bible is also distinguished as having survived more violent controversy than any other book, hated as it is by many enemies.

How many christians hated books that didn't agree with theirs? But otherwise this is just opinion. But this is just an opinion.
No it's facts. I suggest you read Foxes book of Martyrs.

You haven't convinced me.

Yo didn't come here to be convinced, but to attack and a weak job you did at that.


No really, I did. I've just seen much better posts that are much more convincing on other forums.

He just offered an extremely broad argument with no facts.

But you could kick in the christian paranoia some more and say that I am sent from Satan to distort gods word if you like.

I've actually studied on how to analyze arguments, and the OP doesn't have one. All he has is an outline to an argument.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Loken68
Yo didn't come here to be convinced...


Ok I came to be convinced but please strike me in the head with a hammer first to lower my intelligence.

Honestly all one need do to to confirm that the bible is bronze age bollocks is to just read it. Surely god wouldn't get simple arithmetic and science problems wrong but alas he does.

The Bible is False

Scientific errors in the bible

And for those who think the above aren't enough, not to worry! There's more!

Introduction to the Bible and Biblical Problems


And finally I couldn't end here without pointing out that the bible is harmful to children.

Saving our Children from the Bible



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth


Jad.. yea only spammars are allowed at ats.


OP I could of sworn this was a biblical attack thread. Well done.

The reason it has all those attributes is because it is from the creator of this universe.

God has to leave his story in a book to his people, it's common sense. If not mandkind is in the dark.

Not only does it have those attributes, but it also predicts a one world order and a mark on our hand having to do with global dictatorship.


peace.


No, God leaves his story in the souls of every living creature. God would rather you listened to your heart as its always right than listen to a book that is written by man, men who are sinners and sinful in the changes they have made to the book of god.

Sit upon your bed and meditate...you'll get the answers you ask for. Give yourselves to thers and not yourself.

Listen to your heart and you will achieve anything.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by Abuaisha
Dear All,

What is common message brought by all prophets & messenger of Allmight Lord? From Adam, Noah, Ibrahim,Ishaq, Ismaile, Jocub, Joseph, Mosses, Jesus & Mohammed (Peace be upon them all).

Any guess?




Kill those who don't believe as you believe?



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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No liluti Bullcrap those links are flawed and grossly incorrect. Thta's another thread in and of itself.

It's bull.



And for the soul who said '

" God is in the heart of every living creature "

See the problem is, that every creature sees God differently. Some cerial killers claimed their God wanted so and so to be killed. Yet some of those didn't follow a book but their own heart.


God left his story in the traditional way of communication, a bible that contains where we come from and his life story.

When we die God will show you how he put this book together in our lives in review.


peace.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by JesusisTruth]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:00 PM
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Kill those who don't believe as you believe? "

(wookie)

No smart *** .

The same prophets taught.

" love your enemies "

" thou shall not kill "


So either God is an absolute IDIOT to contradict himself, pardon my language, or ofcourse the deaths in the OT where done by either God seeing their evil hearts or plots, or the fact that many tribes tried to bait the Israelites into unfaithfullness and sin.



why are people so stupid?





and WTH kind of sig is that?


" Gods don't kill people, people with Gods kill people "


what? People with Gods also give their lives for the poor and sehlterless. People like me who care for every living being regardless of where they come from.

People without Gods like Lenon and many communist also kill people. Infact more so considering who will run things during WW3. Communist.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by JesusisTruth]

[edit on 24-5-2010 by JesusisTruth]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:10 PM
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Naw lilitu my friend, my boy. we are friends but see. this qoute says it all.

And for those who think the above aren't enough, not to worry! There's more! "

see the exclamations? Which means he don't want God to be real. see he made a mistake and said (not to worry)

worry about what? What if those links weren't enough. why worry?


UNLESS

you want God to be false.

see, watch what you say.

so much for that lowering my intelligence. Seems already lowered.


hey, but DONT WORRY. your on my friends list.

I still like you as a friend.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:35 PM
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Thanks Loken68, IndianaOps and others for your contribution and your faith on the Bible. As you can see in the responses, most of them are just baseless attacks and no solid evidence to back it up. In any case I'll just concentrate on the ones that seem to want know and those who think they know what they are talking about.

Miraj,

You are correct; the beginning of my post was just an outline to let everyone know where I'm coming from. Since it accomplished its purpose the next item in the agenda (docket) is to present the facts per Blue_Jay33 way of thinking: like in a “court”.

But before I start let me state the following since there's a lot of so called “evidence” presented so I'll just pick two or three of the so called rebuttals.

“... in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established.“ Matthew 18:16

Also In this case since (human) eye witnesses of the events are all long gone, I will present the “evidence witness” they left behind.

So let’s start:

snowflake_odsidian you said:


Not too long ago I took my first English college course and the number one rule in that class was to not make statements like this without also including the supporting evidence.

You make this statement without giving anything to back it up. What is your evidence that the history of the bible is accurate?


I hope you know your Bible History well so as to have an honest evaluation of what I’m about to present.

Bible history: Its history is accurate and can be relied upon.

Consider this:

Writing in The Union Bible Companion, S. Austin Allibone says:

“Sir Isaac Newton . . . was also eminent as a critic of ancient writings, and examined with great care the Holy Scriptures. What is his verdict on this point? ‘I find,’ says he, ‘more sure marks of authenticity in the New Testament than in any profane [secular] history whatever
(Two Apologies, by R. Watson, London, 1820, p. 57).

Do you think Sir Isaac Newton didn’t know what he was talking about?

Well, let’s see if he's right.
Please consider the following examples as proof and evidence of the historical accuracy and authenticity of the Bible.

Prophecy concerning the fall of Babylon to the Medes and Persians, specifically under a guy named Cyrus.

Prophecy: see 2 Chron. 36:23 Isa. 13:17-22; 44:28; 45:1, 2;Jer. 50:35-46; 51:37-43

Fulfilled 200 years later - see Dan. 5:22-31;

Use these sites to see the cited scriptures (too long to quote here).
www.watchtower.org...
www.blueletterbible.org...

Here's some more:

What the Bible says about these or any other places, people, or events is historically accurate in every detail. Do you agree or do you have any doubt?

Egyptian King Shishak (1Ki 14:25; 2Ch 12:2);

Assyrians Tiglath-pileser III and Sennacherib (2Ki 15:29; 16:7; 18:13);

The Roman emperors Augustus, Tiberius, and Claudius (Lu 2:1; 3:1; Ac 18:2);

Romans such as Pilate, Felix, and Festus (Ac 4:27; 23:26; 24:27);

Nor what it says about the temple of Artemis at Ephesus and the Areopagus at Athens (Ac 19:35; 17:19-34).


Then there’s the famous Nabunidus Chronicle!

There's more but this should be enough.

My question to you:

Can you DISPROVE that the verses quoted above did not happen or that the places did not / does not exist? If they happened and exist, where did the bible writer get his information? Was it after the facts, before the facts or during the events? Maybe copied from the Sumerian writings as some of your fellow critics claim.

To further add to the evidence, note the statements from people who have commented on the remarkable accuracy of the Bible description of the Promised Land and neighboring territories.

Cont…



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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From Dr. A. P. Stanley (an Oriental traveler), said concerning the Israelites’ wilderness trek:


“Even if their precise route were unknown, yet the peculiar features of the country have so much in common that the history would still receive many remarkable illustrations. . . . The occasional springs, and wells, and brooks, are in accordance with the notices of the ‘waters’ of Marah; the ‘springs’ of . . . Elim; the ‘brook’ of Horeb; the ‘well’ of Jethro’s daughters, with its ‘trough’ or tanks, in Midian. The vegetation is still that which we should infer from the Mosaic history.”


In the account of Egypt, you can actually confirm the accuracy not only in the general description of the territory—that its rich grain lands, its Nile River edged with reeds (see Gen. 41:47-49; Ex. 2:3), but its waters derived from ‘rivers, canals, reedy pools, and impounded waters’ (see Ex. 7:19), its ‘flax, barley, wheat, and spelt’ (see Ex. 9:31, 32)—but also in the names and sites of towns.

As for locations of certain unknown places, modern-day scientists rely on the geologic and geographic record in the Bible. They actually use it as a guide and mind you they have been richly rewarded!

Note one geologist, Dr. Ben Tor, who followed through on the scripture:

“For the LORD thy God bringeth thee into a good land, a land of brooks of water, of fountains and depths that spring out of valleys and hillsA land wherein thou shalt eat bread without scarceness, thou shalt not lack any [thing] in it; a land whose stones [are] iron, and out of whose hills thou mayest dig brass..” (Deut. 8:7, 9 KJV)

A few miles from Beer-sheba, he found immense cliffs saturated with red-black ore. Here was an estimated 15 million tons of low-grade iron ore.
Later, engineers discovered a mile-long outcrop of excellent ore, 60 to 65 percent pure iron. Dr. Joseph Weitz, Israel’s noted authority on reforestation, said:


“The first tree Ab-raham put in the soil of Beersheba was a tamarisk.” “Following his lead, four years ago we put out two million in the same area. Abraham was right. The tamarisk is one of the few trees we have found that thrives in the south where yearly rainfall is less than six inches.”


The book Tree and Shrub in Our Biblical Heritage, by Nogah Hareuveni, adds:

“It appears that the Patriarch Abraham did not simply plant any tree upon arriving in Beershe-va. . . . He chose the tree whose shade is cooler than that of other trees. Moreover, the [tama-risk] can withstand heat and long dry spells by sending its roots deep down to find under-ground water. Not surprisingly, the [tamarisk] remains to this day in the vicinity of Beer-sheva.”
— see Gen. 21:33.

As to details of chronological and geographic statements in the Bible, note what Profes-sor R. D. Wilson wrote in A Scientific Investigation of the Old Testament, pages 213-14:


“The chronological and geographical statements are more accurate and reliable than those afforded by any other ancient documents; and the biographical and other historical narratives harmonize marvelously with the evidence afforded by extra-biblical documents.”


Do the people quoted above don’t know what they were talking about or that they were dreaming when they saw the things they investigated? Only someone who has a close mind will say yes. I hope you’re not one of them.

I’ll stop here for now so as not to bore you unless you want more evidence. Mind you I haven’t even discussed the Greek Scriptures (New Testament) in detail yet.

As a request, I’ve notice that your fellow critics keep quoting this “Sumerian” writing as the basis of the Bible. Would you be able to provide any example of this claim?

Next:

Lilitu:

I hope you studied carefully the sites you've linked to because they are full of lies and misunderstandings.

Cont…



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:48 PM
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Here's one from the Rebuff.com under the heading The Bible is false:


“He made a molten sea, ten cubits from one brim to the other: it was round all about, and its height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.(I Kings 7:23 and 2 Chronicles 4:2]”



There you have it, "Biblical" math. Anyone who knows anything appreciable about mathematics knows that there is an absolute formula that never varies for the circumference of circular objects. That equation says absolutely that the pool had to be 31.4 feet, not 30 feet. … God should know if a pool is round or not; and he should be able to measure. Likewise, ...? If one thing can be "wrong" and in fact is wrong -- then anything can be and probably is wrong. You can't have it both ways.”


Amazing just this one passage gave this person a headache trying to figure out why the circumference was not exactly as calculated c=rxpi. (31.4cubits.)The circumference of 30 cubits evidently is a round number but the author of the site doesn't and will NOT accept approximate numbers. No wonder he/she is so confused and probably will NEVER accept the Bible as the word of God! Amazing grace 0.4 cubit invalidated the entire bible. Next thing he'll probably question also the capacity of water the “molten sea” can contain, if it's off by a pint, liter or a gallon.

Anyway here's a qoute from Christopher Wordsworth to explain further what the verse is all about:


“Up to the time of Archimedes [third century B.C.E.], the circumference of a circle was always measured in straight lines by the radius; and Hiram would naturally describe the sea as thirty cubits round, measuring it, as was then invariably the practice, by its radius, or semi-diameter, of five cubits, which being applied six times round the perimeter, or ‘brim,’ would give the thirty cubits stated. There was evidently no intention in the passage but to give the dimensions of the Sea, in the usual language that every one would understand, measuring the circumference in the way in which all skilled workers, like Hiram, did measure circles at that time. He, of course, must however have known perfectly well, that as the polygonal hexagon thus inscribed by the radius was thirty cubits, the actual curved circumference would be somewhat more". (Notes on the King James Version, London, 1887)


Thus, it appears that the ratio of three to one (that is, the circumference being three times the diameter) was a customary way of stating matters, intended to be understood as only approximate.

Here's how New Living Translations put it:

“Then Huram cast a great round basin, 15 feet across from rim to rim, called the Sea. It was 7-1/2 feet deep and about 45 feet in circumference.”

Side question to you Lilitu: what does the words “about” and “round about” mean, exact or approximate?

Hint from a 9 year old.
“I’m 9 years old . . . well almost. I’ll be 9 next month. That means I’m just about 9.”

Now if you know your Bible you should know that the Bible “CUBIT” has different meaning and measurements depending on the situation and circumstances.

Consider these findings also:

Cubit: A linear measure roughly corresponding to the distance from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger. (De 3:11) There are indications that the Israelites commonly used a cubit of about 44.5 cm (17.5 in.), The Siloam Inscription, for instance, gives 1,200 cubits as the length of the water tunnel built by King Hezekiah. According to modern measurements, this tunnel is 533 m (1,749 ft) long. Thus, when taken at face value, these figures yield a cubit of 44.4 cm (17.49 in.). Also, numerous buildings and enclosures excavated in Palestine can be measured in whole numbers of this unit, giving further basis for reckoning the cubit at about 44.5 cm (17.5 in.).

Cont…



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:53 PM
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Evidently the Israelites also used a larger cubit that was one handbreadth (7.4 cm; 2.9 in.) longer than the “common” cubit. This larger cubit of about 51.8 cm (20.4 in.) figured in the measurements of Ezekiel’s visionary temple. (see Eze 40:5) There may also have been a short cubit of about 38 cm (15 in.), measured from the elbow to the knuckles of the clenched hand.— see Jg 3:16.

See also en.wikipedia.org...

I can explain the rest of the verses quoted in the website you’ve provided but it will take more post and I'm not sure if you are up to it.

Next:

from Fatal Bible Flaws:

Let’s take another random sampling:

Ezekiel 20:25 (King James Version)


25Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws. (This means that God-given laws or commandments are sometimes suspect.)

Lilitu, point to remember – when reading a book make sure to always read the surrounding text or you will miss the point of the story. This problem will always come up whenever the context is NOT taken into account.

Case in point: notice how this done cunningly by the author of the site you provided. By quoting just the verse one is led to believe that God was giving bad laws. If this is so then he is violating his own rule and actually responsible for badness.

But this is false because Deut 32:4 says this:

“The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; Righteous and upright is he.”

John 4:8 “He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.”

Hos 14:9 Who is wise, that he may understand these things? Discreet, that he may know them? For the ways of Jehovah are upright, and the righteous are the ones who will walk in them; but the transgressors are the ones who will stumble in them."


Now let’s take a look at the context of Ezek 20:25.

Verses 21-26


“Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which [if] a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness. Nevertheless I withdrew mine hand, and wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted in the sight of the heathen, in whose sight I brought them forth. I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries; Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols. Wherefore I gave them also statutes [that were] not good, and judgments whereby they should not live; And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through [the fire] all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I [am] the LORD.”’ KJV

Cont…



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:56 PM
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Did you notice the context Lilitu – because of their refusal to obey his laws the Israelite rejected God's laws and instead made their own statutes (laws). For this God allowed them to follow their bad course so that his name and statutes will not be defiled. God gave them up to go “after their fathers' idols”.

Here’s how it’s rendered in NLT:

“I gave them over to worthless customs and laws that would not lead to life.”

Cunning indeed on the part of the author of the site don't you agree Lilitu?

To help clarify this further, note the similarity with the texts below:

Romans 1:24-27:


Therefore God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them, even those who exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the One who created, who is blessed forever. Amen. That is why God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.


I can go on further, but the result will be the same, more twisting and misunderstanding of the scriptures by those who don't know what they are talking about.

Lilitu, do you know what happens in the court if someone presented inaccurate even falsified evidence?

But this not just a “court”, we are dealing with a much higher being – you’ve just been used to accused God of lying by spreading someone’s lies. You should think carefully about this before you provide any link.

To all doubters and critics, may I suggest please stick to the topic? I know you want to talk about religion or other stuff but the subject is the Bible so please provide you rebuttal with evidence.

Thanks
Edmc^2

Btw, jean what is a Poe?

======



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


Well, we're still kinda waiting for your "proof". I mean, you're thread title is "The Bible IS the word of God! No doubt about it!"...which is kinda hilarious considering none of your posts prove the existence of God


Saying "the bible is the world of God, and God exists because we have the bible as proof" is one giant cycle jerk...but NOT proof of anything.

I mean, you have to be completely if you can't see how this isn't proof of anything :shk:



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